Ranking Steroids by Impact on Hematocrit

[ChrisMidLife]

I'm a middle aged dude with no intention of stepping on stage. I just enjoy bodybuilding. Due to some family history issues, I have made the personal decision to not push HCT levels as high as many members. I'm interested in the list due to my own harm reduction decisions to try to stay in range most of the time on HCT.

I am not looking for discussion/debate on what constitutes safe HCT number for most people. I understand it's pretty settled that for the average person its OK to be outside reference range to the high side.

My question: Based on various people's experience how would rank individual compounds from most impactful to least impactful.

Below is my understanding from most to least. I am a novice. I appreciate and welcome input from the more experienced people. Lastly, I'm a middle aged dude, I'm interested to hear any discussion on how impact to HCT with certain compounds may have changed with age.

1. EQ. Seems lots of people report impact to HCT--Also they report increased endurance which could be increase in RBC?
2. NPP/Deca. Some people report impacts to HCT.
3. Primo. Actually developed and studied to treat Anemia.
4. Testosterone. Some people see some increases on TRT alone.
5. Masteron. I haven't seen many reports of Mast causing impact.
6. Anavar. Haven't seen much on this. Though people running it for shorter times and maybe it just trashed lipids before getting to HCT?
7. Winstrol. Same as Anavar. Haven't seen much on it, assume its due to lower duration? However also an equine product so may need to be higher like EQ?

Things I didn't bother ranking because I haven't researched or done them: The other orals. Only tried Anadrol once for two days, BP shot up 35 points. Yeah fuck that. Didn't rank Tren because I've got a family and a life so I just skip over Tren threads.

 

[Slowww]

Tbh I haven’t seen any really raise it out of control. With EQ I’ve had an increased work capacity, but the RBC and HCT is normal with all doses under one gram. I don’t know what would happen over a gram, maybe it will be out of range, I haven’t tried 1g or more. My HCT goes to high normal when I run EQ and Ment together. I got a family and a life and tren also doesn’t raise it .

However some people are very sensitive to it and can’t run any at all. I have a friend who can’t run even moderate doses of EQ because his values start to shoot way out of range.

You may benefit from starting conservatively, then do blood work to ascertain your response.

 

[Nidus]

Same topic posted twice? Dont do that, people hate this. One post is enough.

 

[IndividualMan]

However some people are very sensitive to it and can’t run any at all. I have a friend who can’t run even moderate doses of EQ because his values start to shoot way out of range.

I strongly agree with the interpersonal differences some of these Compounds, especially EQ, seem to exhibit

Not sure if Anadrol would be on you radar seeing as you are a sensible middle aged fella, but that stuff raises hematocrit through the roof (seeing as it is an anemia medication) so it is best avoided in your case.

Long term Dianabol use (don't know why anyone sane would do that) also seems to raise HCT a bit, at least from what i have seen anecdotally.

That being said, i would put Anadrol aaalll the way to the top of your list, and dbol somewhere below testosterone.

 

[ChrisMidLife]

Same topic posted twice? Dont do that, people hate this. One post is enough.

Other post was specific to testosterone and testosterone esters. I was interested in testosterone ester/timing specific discussion on that. Apologies to anyone upset by the two posts.

 

[accidentaljedi173]

Personally, masteron is the one compound that would raise my hct quickly. Even at moderate doses.

 

[explodingHeart]

Melanotan-2 shoots my HCT through the roof. I gotta drain blood if I use it. Aside from that, HCT is normally at mid 40s even if I blast test/primo.

 

[amazonas]

Primobolan should be higher on the list. I'm just on a low dose right now, and my HCT is the highest it has ever been in my life, even higher than when I was running higher doses of EQ.

 

[Bigoldguy]

Test C at 120mg a week puts mine at 49-53. Added some deca for the joints and it didnt move. I think its really and individual response thing...

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Hate to come in here and break stuff but putting aside individual responses to drugs which are always a factor, the vast majority of the drugs we use have the same magnitude of impact on things like hct/rbc. The same goes for their ability to build tissue. Total mg is always gonna be more a factor than the specific drugs…

Try some grapefruit/juice/extract so long as you’re not on any meds it interacts with. Keeps a good portion of my clients in high normal ranges which IMO is the best we can hope for.

 

[Bigoldguy]

Hate to come in here and break stuff but putting aside individual responses to drugs which are always a factor, the vast majority of the drugs we use have the same magnitude of impact on things like hct/rbc. The same goes for their ability to build tissue. Total mg is always gonna be more a factor than the specific drugs…

Try some grapefruit/juice/extract so long as you’re not on any meds it interacts with. Keeps a good portion of my clients in high normal ranges which IMO is the best we can hope for.

How much do you recommend?

 

[Mac11wildcat]

How much do you recommend?

If you’re just using the extract, 250-500mg 2x a day.

 

[Liter O' Test]

its not a guarantee at all.
mine was like 45% on grams of test.
so no need to worry about it if you dont even have problems with it, dont know if you just spent too much time researching without actually having a problem
many people with high hemacrit could be due to other factors

 

[Bigoldguy]

its not a guarantee at all.
mine was like 45% on grams of test.
so no need to worry about it if you dont even have problems with it, dont know if you just spent too much time researching without actually having a problem
many people with high hemacrit could be due to other factors

Nah, mine jumped after starting trt..end up giving blood a couple times a year.

 

[Liter O' Test]

Nah, mine jumped after starting trt..end up giving blood a couple times a year.

if TRT actually caused high hemacrit for you then you would need to do more than give blood a few times per year.
do you have the results before and after donating?

 

[vapor77]

How many of you guys are going off your blood test taken early in the morning?

If you aren't properly hydrated, it's going to show higher. Make sure you get adequate fluids in you prior to your blood draw.

 

[lukiss96]

Testosterone alone is enough to cause max upper range/limit of hematocrit/hemoglobin for most people.

 

[OldGHGuy]

When experiencing High BP at least partially due to high hct, how long after donating does one see a decrease in BP?

 

[Bigoldguy]

Should show up quick as youll be down a unit of blood but itll be temporary. Youre body will compensate fairly quickly and build the fluid back up (not the blood cells, thatll take a while).

 

[RockyP]

My thoughts are these:
1) the HCT issue is like everything else, genetically impacted. I saw bloods from a friend of mine 20 years ago who was competing in Nats, running 2.5 grams of gear, 3 orals the final 2 weeks, idk why he got bloodwork then but he did - everything was WNL other than slight LFT elevation. That's an extreme case.
2) It is true that all AAS are going to increase HCT / RBC. That's part of why they are advantageous for performance. Greater O2 carrying capacity.
3) Lots and lots and lots of people with OSA don't know they have it. Doesn't matter if you're not huge / fat. Get a sleep study. Nothing makes HCT run high like OSA, and nothing worsens OSA like gear / TRT. Most top professional BBers / strength athletes all use CPAP these days. It's a game changer and a literal life saver.
4) The hydration issue is a real thing. Even on my HRT my Hgb would be over 17 and HCT would be around 51. Baseline HCT was 47 but that was back when I had untreated OSA. The point is that i started working with a consultant / coach who mandated that I drink a gallon of water prior to my fasting bloodwork. HCT was back to within normal range. Most of us get fasting bloodwork in a very dehydrated state. Part of it is logistic in nature (I almost pissed in the LabCorp parking lot because I was the first appt in the AM and nobody was there and I had been slugging water all morning), and part of it is oversight.
5) There is a lot of conflicting information about phlebotomy for secondary erythrocytosis seen in TRT / gear usage. I think if you are blasting high dosages it's probably good to donate, but I've seen a study in which men on TRT with high HCT gave blood and their HCT remained high and all they got for their trouble was iron deficiency. I think most guys who donate blood do it out of fear but it may well not be doing any good.