Seeking Input on Beginner Cycld

[Swarm]

Howdy y’all!

I’d love to get some input from y’all on a beginner cycle I’m thinking of getting into.

As a little background, I’m 30 y/o, 6’2”, approx 205. I’ve worked down to 205 from 300 over the course of the last year using MacroFactor, meal prepping, 30+ min LISS (typically incline walking, elliptical, bike or rower) 3-5x/week, and 5/3/1 for main lifts + hypertrophy style work for accessories. Currently sitting at 2/3/4 ohp/bench/squat + 650ish dl. I’m also on a fairly low dose of TRT, 120ish mg/week w/ 1000iu HCG/week. The TRT has me between 1.3k->1.5k ng/dL, SHBG 30, normal thyroids + igf1, cmp/cbc values normal range, lipids + liver normal ranges. Overall I tolerate test well, but I hold on to water like a motherfucker so I do use anastrazole 0.125mg 2x/week and it’s enough. Ive never blasted, nor really messed with my dose outside of the initial dialing it in I did when I started about 8 months ago. I’ve enjoyed the process of dialing in my diet, according to MacroFactor + my weight loss progression I’m sitting somewhere in the ballpark of 3.35-3.5k cal TDEE, so I’m generally eating 2.5-2.9k cal/day with a goal protein of 250g, typically landing much higher than that because I pretty much exclusively eat chicken, rice + green veg. I don’t drink, enjoy zyn throughout the day, and get between 6-9h sleep a night.

I’ve come to the decision of blasting because the travel aspect of work is finally slowing down and I’ll have a solid 12 weeks at home/with access to my home gym which is outfitted with pretty much every cardio machine, powerlifting platform + free weights and functional trainer. Hotel gyms absolutely suck so I make due when I travel but I want to make full use of my home set up. I’m also pretty happy with the amount I’ve cut, and I want to add back mass and gain more strength before I cut more.

Now to the cycle I’m considering:

12 weeks
Weeks 1-12: Test C 300mg/week
Weeks 1-12: 1000iu HCG/week (hoping to get wife knocked up in the next few months)
Weeks 1-12: Primo E 200mg/week
Week 7-12: Tbol 50mg/day

Pct: return to TRT

The main goals are gaining a reasonable amount of mass, approx 15-20lbs without fat gain.

I’m thinking I should start lighter with the T dose + primo dose because my trusted source is out and I’ve only got two vials. I’m thinking tbol to cement the gains, get some good strength gains and stop me from becoming a bloat monster which was happening at my initial TRT dose of 160mg/week.

For calories I’m looking to push between 3.5-4k cal, 300g protein and let the other chips fall where they may. I’ve got gout so no red meat/seafood, so I’ll be putting the Tyson family kids through college with tons of chicken + rice and veg to fill in the gap.

For training I’m looking at trying out a PPL 6x/week split, emphasizing hypertrophy. My background is in powerlifting/strength modalities so trying out a new lifting scheme sounds fun.

I think I’ve got my diet plan in order, a good training plan, the drugs sound reasonable for a first cycle, and I’ll have access to my dream gym.

I would love any input y’all could give me. I am absolutely trying to get my wife pregnant so if this will fuck that up I’m willing to put it on hold, being a dad is cooler than being jacked. I know I’m nowhere close to being an expert on any of this so I’d love to leverage some of the knowledge y’all have. Please tell me if I’m going full retard.

Thanks yall!

 

[Swarm]

I swear I know how to spell cycle and that this is describing a blast, not a true cycle. Proof that higher education doesn’t prevent one from being retarded

 

[rxzed]

My 0.02. Postpone it until you get your wife pregnant. Don't start primo right away; get at least 8-12 weeks worth of bloods on just testosterone to remove potential confounding factors. Orals are shit, especially in a first cycle. Cycle length should be dictated on bloods and symptoms, not an arbitrary number. 12 weeks is way too short. It takes at least a month just for you to reach peak serum concentration on those two compounds, assuming cypionate/enanthate.

Steroids do 95% of the work, so let them do just that. Don't add in tons of volume or calories to try to force muscle on; you'll just be fat and burnt out. I recommend doing whatever you were doing before, and adjust based on results.

Finally, 15-20 pounds of muscle tissue added in 12 weeks is fucking insane.

 

[Swarm]

My 0.02. Postpone it until you get your wife pregnant. Don't start primo right away; get at least 8-12 weeks worth of bloods on just testosterone to remove potential confounding factors. Orals are shit, especially in a first cycle. Cycle length should be dictated on bloods and symptoms, not an arbitrary number. 12 weeks is way too short. It takes at least a month just for you to reach peak serum concentration on those two compounds, assuming cypionate/enanthate.

Steroids do 95% of the work, so let them do just that. Don't add in tons of volume or calories to try to force muscle on; you'll just be fat and burnt out. I recommend doing whatever you were doing before, and adjust based on results.

Finally, 15-20 pounds of muscle tissue added in 12 weeks is fucking insane.

That all sounds pretty reasonable! The 12 week time frame is more because I assume the work travel will pick back up at that point, and I don’t really feel like I can progress very much when the hotels in BFE, USA I get sent to typically max out at 50lbs. I try to do what I can for 5/3/1 in the home gym on the weekend and fill in with hotel stuff.

Fair point on the just waiting til she’s knocked up. Also definitely not bad advice. I’m probably putting myself into a mental box unnecessarily by looking at the 12 weeks as a hard deadline, obviously I’ll be able to continue lifting + growing after. Heard on the no tbol/wait on the primo, maybe I’ll get lucky and primo raws will no longer be unobtanium at that point.

For the calories, is gaining mass in a 400cal deficit really possible? I genuinely do not know, but I know that prior to trt I would not grow in a deficit. Moving to hypertrophy training was more something I wanted to try because it sounded fun, I haven’t put on a ton of mass with 5/3/1 but I do either slowly gain or at least maintain strength.

If the answer to getting some gains really is just upping the test and chilling that really simplifies things.

I really appreciate your time, thank you brother

 

[rxzed]

That all sounds pretty reasonable! The 12 week time frame is more because I assume the work travel will pick back up at that point, and I don’t really feel like I can progress very much when the hotels in BFE, USA I get sent to typically max out at 50lbs. I try to do what I can for 5/3/1 in the home gym on the weekend and fill in with hotel stuff.

Not sure about your situation, but maybe you could get a planet fitness or anytime fitness membership?

For the calories, is gaining mass in a 400cal deficit really possible? I genuinely do not know, but I know that prior to trt I would not grow in a deficit. Moving to hypertrophy training was more something I wanted to try because it sounded fun, I haven’t put on a ton of mass with 5/3/1 but I do either slowly gain or at least maintain strength.

On steroids? Absolutely. Just monitor your bodyfat levels, and if you notice that your getting "too" lean, up the calories.

If the answer to getting some gains really is just upping the test and chilling that really simplifies things.

I wouldn't recommend it, though it is an option. Most people have better health markers when adding multiple compounds to reach their mg amount. It's something that you'll just have to experiment with and see what works best for you.

I really appreciate your time, thank you brother

Absolutely. Good luck with the baby!

 

[Cereal masturbator]

Second vote for test only, and get her pregnant first then blast. Personally Id go 500 on the test though, if you’re gonna blast then do it, no point only upping it by 180mgs a week

 

[Swarm]

Not sure about your situation, but maybe you could get a planet fitness or anytime fitness membership?

On steroids? Absolutely. Just monitor your bodyfat levels, and if you notice that your getting "too" lean, up the calories.

I wouldn't recommend it, though it is an option. Most people have better health markers when adding multiple compounds to reach their mg amount. It's something that you'll just have to experiment with and see what works best for you.

Absolutely. Good luck with the baby!

I would love to have access to a planet fitness but work usually sends me to towns with a <4000 population so there isn’t a lot of great options for good access to weights. I probably should focus more on working out better on the road, that’s a great takeaway.

As far as eating goes that’s super attainable. I’m probably around 17% body fat so I’m not at a huge risk of being too lean. I’ll just keep on with the current diet strategy and simply add some extra test. Doing a test-only cycle as cereal masturbator (lmfao @ the name) is seconding is probably going to be the move then.

Absolutely appreciate the advice and the well wishes! Part of me hopes it takes a little while so I can enjoy trying but the product is better than the process and I’m not getting any younger so might as well hop to it. Thank you!

 

[chyde14]

This is some great advice to follow from Chase Irons.
View: https://youtu.be/Tg6hj7xWRwY?si=Vj-Q2nakG4DV3LF0

 

[Nidus]

Also if you want to get your wife pregnant, maybe consider adding HMG and Inj. carnitine.

Otherwise totally agreed what others said here.

 

[bornSkinny]

You want as few variables as possible when you start using different compunds, so you can accurately access how you are responding to each one. This is extremely valuable information as you go forward you can always add more, and swap things in and out. I'd strongly suggest dropping the oral and sticking with your injectables.

You can always run some tbol whenever. If after 8 weeks things are going great perhaps up the dose on the oils a bit but keep the ratio test/primo equal. If things seem to be going ok, then you take an oral and it throws your cycle off track, it would be a bummer. Maybe tbol doesnt agree with you even though its generally low side effect. Maybe your tbol its actually dbol and you get gyno in a week from it. Maybe the tbol messes with your appetite. Thats no good.

Run the injectables and eat really, really well, and get your valuble data point. A first cycle is going to get you great gains but stringing together years of healthy injury free training is whats going to get you the best results. The best advice is to be a little patient. If this cycle works well next time do it again and add the tbol. Then you will know how you feel about tbol when added to this stack. Good Luck.

 

[Swarm]

Yall are awesome, thank you all for taking the time to reply. After talking with my wife I’m going to wait til she’s knocked up, then do a slow upwards run, starting with test at 250 for 8 weeks, then bloods, and if bloods look good slowly increase from there. Might be looking at adding primo in the fall if things continue to look ok. I’m not planning on pct or coming off trt so worst case scenario I drop back to the trt dose I know I tolerate well.

Yall rock!

 

[ThinBulk]

Normally I'd agree on 500mg test is better than 300 test + 200 primo for you, but I can take 500mg without using an AI. Your reaction to test is already known. I vote for primo addition rather than taking only test, knowing you'll need a boatload of anastrazole.

Skip the oral unless you have specific goals for it. If doing the oral, ending the cycle with it like you suggested is better than at the start. Keep new compounds separated so you can discriminate between the side effect of each.

Also if you cycle, you have a large chance that the hcg won't be able to keep you fertile. Even your trt dose may already be doing this. You'll need 3 months of good conditions for fertility to bounce back.

 

[nicksampson123]

no primo until you need e2 in check or else you will never know how you aromatize.

 

[Slowww]

15-20lbs of muscle with 12 weeks of 300 test, some primo and tbol with no fat gain sounds unlikely. Only thing I think is unnecessary is the tbol. There’s really no reason to add an oral. If you want more mgs, do it with test or primo. If you have a problem with water on such low doses you’re probably just still too fat tbh, not to be rude.
I disagree that you should wait to get your wife pregnant before blasting. This is not a lot of gear and that is a pretty sizeable amount of hcg. From personal experience this is my opinion. If you’re worried do an analysis and if results are poor consider hmg, and if you think blasting will negatively impact chances then sure don’t do it.

 

[PaintDrinker]

500 test no orals. I’d your total is that high from such a low dose of true trt you should grow like a weed my man.

 

[Swarm]

15-20lbs of muscle with 12 weeks of 300 test, some primo and tbol with no fat gain sounds unlikely. Only thing I think is unnecessary is the tbol. There’s really no reason to add an oral. If you want more mgs, do it with test or primo. If you have a problem with water on such low doses you’re probably just still too fat tbh, not to be rude.
I disagree that you should wait to get your wife pregnant before blasting. This is not a lot of gear and that is a pretty sizeable amount of hcg. From personal experience this is my opinion. If you’re worried do an analysis and if results are poor consider hmg, and if you think blasting will negatively impact chances then sure don’t do it.

Definitely not rude, I’m at least 17-18% body fat. Fat shaming works lol.

Thank you to you and the other guys chiming in, I sincerely appreciate it. I’m still planning on holding off until the wife is pregnant and using the interim to cut as hard as possible. Once it all works out and I’ve lost more fat I’m thinking of doing a test only blast and starting 300mg for the duration of the pregnancy to get that data point. I could likely get more impressive gains by doing more, but BornSkinny’s mention that a lifetime of blasts with good training are what is really impressive.

I appreciate the time y’all have put in to read this far, thank you!