Why 250mg/week of Testosterone is the best first cycle ever

[BabaJagga]

Yes, me and many others. Obviously not the majority but there are cases who need 300mg to hit 800ng/dl, with a legit trt script.

That's why my thoughts while using "low" dosages regarding testosterone should be dictated by ng/dl and not milligrams or cc's.

If we talk 500mg+ it's a different story, having 3000 or 4000ng..i doubt it makes that much of a difference, but 700 with 1700 it sure does.

response to test is wild to me.
3 guys, same test, oil, ester, pinnin scheadule etc, 300mg weekly, bloods were drawn at start of week 6, before next pin
1350, 1050, 2200 ng/dl. completly different response.

also estrogen levels completly different.
i guess everyone reacts differently and 250mg for one of us isnt even cycle/blast.

for sure on 500 all of us are/were on full blast.

 

[Jin23]

Due to varying intra individual pharmacokinetic responses, talking about dosages makes little to no sense. As was already mentioned, 250 for some barely hits 1000 ngdl and for others (like me) it's closer to 3000 ngdl.

Here is a cookie cutter way to start your first cycle.

1. Start at 250 mg's.
2. 14 days after first pin go do bloods and check TT.
3. If TT was around 2500 ngdl, great, don't change anything. 2500 ngdl is a good number for a first cycle and one which imo you should strive for.
4. If it is significantly bellow, up the dosage accordingly. But just know that dosage response to serum blood levels isn't linear.

This kind of threads are in the end to controversial and cause unnecessary confusion as it's focus on mg"s instead of blood values is needlessly simplistic.

 

[RzSco]

Anecdotally my first cycle of test at 500mg hit harder than anything I’ve done since, in terms of sides AND positive effects.

It’s like my body deleted all the androgen receptors in shock.

For me 500mg puts me at around 2800ng/dl bloods.

 

[Ateam2023]

Im a good responder as 200 mg test c weekly , will have my tt well in the 1500 range, also e2 is on a higher side but, a tiny bit of dex keeps it in the zone,,

 

[BabaJagga]

But just know that dosage response to serum blood levels isn't linear.

Another wild thing for me.
As ive said in post above, i upped from 300
500 and from 1350 i went to 3000+ (cap of my lab)

Friend of mine had 1050 on 300mg, he upped test to 600 and was also at 3000+ and couldnt control esteogen. with 3x 25mg of aromasin he was still at 190 pg/ml

I think its important to learn at first blast response on high-ish dose, figure our aromatization and ai doses. I dont regret starting at 300 and upping to 500.

Could i made probably same gains on 300? probably.
Did i learn more on 500? for sure

 

[lukiss96]

Love this, I expected a good debate. Different camps with differing opinion. It's great that we manage to keep it non toxic.

I'll just address few things:

-Why 250mg per week exactly?:
It's just that 1cc is the most commonly available concentration. So taking 1ml/cc weekly is therefore convenient. Especially for a beginner. Of course it can be 200-300mg/ml. Then just take that.


Why recommend dose (mg) instead of ng/dl?:

While, I fully agree that ng/dl is far more important along with FT measurement. However we have to start somewhere dosage wise. A beginner does not have the experience required to know this yet.


Why starting low is simple and easy?:

Because as I already mentioned to avoid possible side effects. But also get yourself used to being on Testosterone. If for some reason blood work shows poor responder and/or results are not satisfactory, this same person can increase the dose by another 0.5cc (375mg/week in most cases). There is no need to rush all in with 500mg/week or nothing sort of old school of thought. You can always up the dose later on, but be more patient and disciplined.

 

[Tr3nbal0n3]

What's your idea of low dose GH? If you're talking 2 - 4 iu I would vehemently disagree. It seems like the gains or any synergistic affect guys get with those doses and Test are barely negligible. I think most guys need to dose GH at a minimum of 6iu to get the tissue building benefits from it. GH is also one of the safest compounds we have in our arsenal so why not use as much as we can afford?

Agreed 1-4 iu will do nothing but make your skin look better. 5-10 is when things get interesting. and I’m talking Pharma GH not generic.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Agreed 1-4 iu will do nothing but make your skin look better. 5-10 is when things get interesting. and I’m talking Pharma GH not generic.

I bounced back and forth between pharma and UGL GH and could never tell a difference

The only difference I could tell was from increasing the dose

 

[glpfun]

mast should be part of every cycle, you will have far less side effects running 300 test and 300 mast than running just 300 test

 

[Ateam2023]

mast should be part of every cycle, you will have far less side effects running 300 test and 300 mast than running just 300 test

that's reasonable,,

 

[Tr3nbal0n3]

I bounced back and forth between pharma and UGL GH and could never tell a difference

The only difference I could tell was from increasing the dose

You don’t hold more water on generic ?? Where do you get your GH?

 

[AlexDavis43]

You don’t hold more water on generic ?? Where do you get your GH?

Many of the sources here, no difference

 

[Ateam2023]

Agreed 1-4 iu will do nothing but make your skin look better. 5-10 is when things get interesting. and I’m talking Pharma GH not generic.

what kind of pharma hgh do you do? Not many people doing real pharma hgh ?

 

[AlexDavis43]

what kind of pharma hgh do you do? Not many people doing real pharma hgh ?

I've done loads of Genos and got all the expected effects of GH, just no difference from the UGLs I've tried

I'm running 10 IU/d. Maybe Sero is different but hard to justify the cost based on "trust me bro, it's better"

 

[glpfun]

6iu is where I noticed gh doing something wrt recovery

 

[lukiss96]

that's reasonable,,

I don't think it's suitable for the first cycle.

 

[Tr3nbal0n3]

what kind of pharma hgh do you do? Not many people doing real pharma hgh ?

genotropin, I was originally using snowcaps from kits4less I switched to geno I was definitely a bit fuller and less watery

 

[BabaJagga]

mast should be part of every cycle, you will have far less side effects running 300 test and 300 mast than running just 300 test

thats what im on rn and so far its better then test solo.

but test solo is needed experience also i think.

 

[lukiss96]

but test solo is needed experience also i think.

Exactly, I guess some people misread it as the best cycle and skipped the first cycle part.

 

[BabaJagga]

Exactly, I guess some people misread it as the best cycle and skipped the first cycle part.

i look at it as big experiment. i wanna figure out best ratio test to ai, test to mast with/without ai, my best response for future blasts.

only annyoing thing is when i change the dose, with c/e ester, i need to wait 4 weeks to draw blood and see.