MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Hgh use
- Thread starter Mac81
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I thought that this was proven to not be true. We like to think that HG is this incredible fragile substance that can take damage from as little as vacuum from the syringe. It was a while ago but either Catcafe or Jano tested GH under sub optimal circumstances and the degeneration was basically non existent.
Ghoul
Member
No, the opposite has been proven. Jano's informal experiment doesn't measure the type of damage done in this case, rHGH unfolding.
It's not the impact of the water "breaking" the molecule. It's the creation of bubbles and foam. The bubbles created expose rHGH to large surface area of air-liquid interface, which causes denaturing (unfolding).
Unfolded rHGH still chemically tests as pure, because the chemicals are all still there, but isn't active because without the proper shape it can't bind to GH receptors.
He doesn't have the equipment that can detect rHGH structure, but it's being worked on.
Is this recommended reconstituted peptides as well? The light protected part?
Interesting. I’m not saying you’re wrong but do you have any sources on this? Would like to read further.
Also adding @janoshik
Ghoul
Member
Peptides are as varied a category as food, so it's hard to generalize. Is a walnut as sensitive to temperature related degradation as fresh fish?
The air-water interface example for instance. Some peptides don't really have any problems caused by that. rHGH does. Unless you know, it's easier to just avoid foaming with all of them.
But all peptides are susceptible to degradation from light exposure. Some very sensitive, others not, but dark is definately better for every peptide in storage.
That's helpful thanks. Right now I have Tirz, bpc-157, and TB 500 in the fridge in a Ziploc. I'll get them in something better covering the light.
JuiceStick
Member
There's no light in your fridge when the door is closed. I wouldn't worry about light in fridge too much
Except my kids staring in there all day for snacks.
JuiceStick
Member
It's UV light that's the concern. If you have a fairly recent fridge with LED light, there's barely any UV, if any.
Ghoul
Member
What's the point of dragging Jano into this. I'm not calling his work into question lol.
He's a highly competent analytical chemist who runs a great lab providing a crucial service at an accessible price. That doesn't make him a biopharma guy any more than a great architect who designs hospitals is a brain surgeon.
I assume he's got better things to do than spend time reading about the pharmaceutical nuances of a particular compound as a hobby
Anyway. since the very technical references aren't exactly light reading, as a proxy I'll quote the plain english instructions from commercial rHGH.
----------------
Omnitrope® (somatropin [rDNA origin])
“Once the diluent is added to the lyophilized powder, swirl gently; do not shake. Shaking may cause denaturation of the active ingredient.” 
Genotropin (Pfizer)
“Gently tip your pen from side to side to help dissolve the powder completely. Do not shake your pen, as this might stop the growth hormone working."
MiniQuick (Pfizer)
“Do not shake the GENOTROPIN MINIQUICK. Shaking may cause the growth hormone to not work as well."
Genotropin Pen (Pfizer)
“GENOTROPIN is a prescription product … Do not shake pen, as this might stop the medicine from working.” 
Saizen® (somatropin)
“To reconstitute SAIZEN, inject the diluent into the vial… swirl the vial with a GENTLE rotary motion until contents are dissolved completely. DO NOT SHAKE."
Humatrope Vial (Lilly)
“Do not shake. The reconstituted solution should be clear. Inspect visually for particulate matter and discoloration.” 
Humatrope Pen (Lilly)
“Be sure to gently invert the Pen up and down 10 times. DO NOT SHAKE. Then, let the Pen sit for at least three minutes.” 
----------------
To doubt these means multi-billion dollar pharma companies all caution against agitating rHGH because they just like to "say shit" based on a myth.
That none of their thousands of experts on staff would stand up and say, "You know, that's not correct" at any point in the last 30 years.
If this isn't sufficient, and you want I'll be happy to give you the heavier stuff that goes deep into air interface unfolding rHGH, but there's nothing straightforward about it and your eyes will glaze over.
Last edited:
AlexDavis43
Member
What's the point of dragging Jano into this. I'm not calling his work into question lol.
He's a highly competent analytical chemist who runs a great lab providing a crucial service at an accessible price. That doesn't make him a biopharma guy any more than a great architect who designs hospitals is a brain surgeon.
I assume he's got better things to do than spend time reading about the pharmaceutical nuances of a particular compound as a hobby
Anyway. since the very technical references aren't exactly light reading, as a proxy I'll quote the plain english instructions from commercial rHGH.
----------------
Omnitrope® (somatropin [rDNA origin])
“Once the diluent is added to the lyophilized powder, swirl gently; do not shake. Shaking may cause denaturation of the active ingredient.” 
Genotropin (Pfizer)
“Gently tip your pen from side to side to help dissolve the powder completely. Do not shake your pen, as this might stop the growth hormone working."
MiniQuick (Pfizer)
“Do not shake the GENOTROPIN MINIQUICK. Shaking may cause the growth hormone to not work as well."
Genotropin Pen (Pfizer)
“GENOTROPIN is a prescription product … Do not shake pen, as this might stop the medicine from working.” 
Saizen® (somatropin)
“To reconstitute SAIZEN, inject the diluent into the vial… swirl the vial with a GENTLE rotary motion until contents are dissolved completely. DO NOT SHAKE."
Humatrope Vial (Lilly)
“Do not shake. The reconstituted solution should be clear. Inspect visually for particulate matter and discoloration.” 
Humatrope Pen (Lilly)
“Be sure to gently invert the Pen up and down 10 times. DO NOT SHAKE. Then, let the Pen sit for at least three minutes.” 
----------------
To doubt these means multi-billion dollar pharma companies all caution against agitating rHGH because they just like to "say shit" based on a myth.
That none of their thousands of experts on staff would stand up and say, "You know, that's not correct" at any point in the last 30 years.
If this isn't sufficient, and you want I'll be happy to give you the heavier stuff that goes deep into air interface unfolding rHGH, but there's nothing straightforward about it and your eyes will glaze over.
If "shaking" inactivated or deteriorated GH, everyone who has ever ordered any GH product from any source got bunk GH.
Stuff gets shook to all hell in the mail.
I believe the shaking is detrimental only if reconstitued. In puck form it doesn't lead to anything
You gave a very specific scientific process that happens to GH when we inject water too fast into it but failed to give a single source citing the process you claimed.What's the point of dragging Jano into this. I'm not calling his work into question lol.
He's a highly competent analytical chemist who runs a great lab providing a crucial service at an accessible price. That doesn't make him a biopharma guy any more than a great architect who designs hospitals is a brain surgeon.
I assume he's got better things to do than spend time reading about the pharmaceutical nuances of a particular compound as a hobby
Anyway. since the very technical references aren't exactly light reading, as a proxy I'll quote the plain english instructions from commercial rHGH.
----------------
Omnitrope® (somatropin [rDNA origin])
“Once the diluent is added to the lyophilized powder, swirl gently; do not shake. Shaking may cause denaturation of the active ingredient.” 
Genotropin (Pfizer)
“Gently tip your pen from side to side to help dissolve the powder completely. Do not shake your pen, as this might stop the growth hormone working."
MiniQuick (Pfizer)
“Do not shake the GENOTROPIN MINIQUICK. Shaking may cause the growth hormone to not work as well."
Genotropin Pen (Pfizer)
“GENOTROPIN is a prescription product … Do not shake pen, as this might stop the medicine from working.” 
Saizen® (somatropin)
“To reconstitute SAIZEN, inject the diluent into the vial… swirl the vial with a GENTLE rotary motion until contents are dissolved completely. DO NOT SHAKE."
Humatrope Vial (Lilly)
“Do not shake. The reconstituted solution should be clear. Inspect visually for particulate matter and discoloration.” 
Humatrope Pen (Lilly)
“Be sure to gently invert the Pen up and down 10 times. DO NOT SHAKE. Then, let the Pen sit for at least three minutes.” 
----------------
To doubt these means multi-billion dollar pharma companies all caution against agitating rHGH because they just like to "say shit" based on a myth.
That none of their thousands of experts on staff would stand up and say, "You know, that's not correct" at any point in the last 30 years.
If this isn't sufficient, and you want I'll be happy to give you the heavier stuff that goes deep into air interface unfolding rHGH, but there's nothing straightforward about it and your eyes will glaze over.
I have also been a member of this forum for 10 years. Enough to see your ChatGPT posts and also the 17 page thread with everyone’s opinion on your posts. So sorry if I don’t swallow what you say wholly. Not to even mention that you think I should trust you over Jano because «he doesn’t have the right lab equipment. «
AlexDavis43
Member
Appeal to authority and cherry picking:
"Don't trust Big Pharma, they lie about everything to make money"
"except trust them about this one thing because it supports my bias"
"Don't trust Big Pharma, they lie about everything to make money"
"except trust them about this one thing because it supports my bias"
Drug instructions are written for public consumption and need to be clear, concise and often un-nuanced. If some amount of agitation will lead to some degree of loss of biological activity, you simply take that off the table and tell the public not to do it. Otherwise, you are introducing confusion and are negotiating with how much is ackshully acceptable and how much can I really get away with. Too much thinking.
AlexDavis43
Member
Yeah I don't think it's totally wrong, but def some wiggle room. If reconstituting too fast or a little shake deteriorated the GH I don't think anyone would get any results from GH.
About the lyophilized powder, can't be, otherwise none of the GH that makes to Jano would test well and that's not the case.... unless Jano's been misleading us all along and this is something he can't test.
AlexDavis43
Member
Norditropin and Omnitrope come reconstituted. Which means both shaking and temperature fluctuations in the mail.
Tbh I don't know the answer.
There are so many nuances with GH, like some products stored at room temperature, Lobs vacuumless testing, no correlation between dimer and immunogenicity or GH efficacy (some kids get antibodies but it doesn't depend on how aggregated their GH was), no clear correlation between pharma vs UGL GH and IGF1 response (very small sample size), etc., etc. What else?
undersc0re
Member
I think its the longer chain which are more delicate and folded into 3 dim shapes, they even suggest using room temp bac water. They say vigorous mixing will even cause clumping more aggregates which make them less bio-available which make them harder absorb and more likely to trigger immune responses so I would be very careful as a precaution reconstituting with the hgh that comes not reconstituted.
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