ve79
Member
Hey everyone I noticed everyone is for the most part sold out of primo. Is this because the raws for primo are hard to come by or too expensive for people sources to make? I'm just curious?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
What's going on with primo?
- Thread starter ve79
- Start date
IndividualMan
Member
Acetic anhydride?Funnily enough, that stuff is okayishly avaliable in EU. you just need to register your lab if i recall correctly, because precursor for H, but if you have a University lab/commercial lab or something along those lines, it is avaliable.
TheScholarOfBrew
Subscriber
Not quite. A few. points need to be corrected here.
> “They are made in China so the DEA/FDA has no authority there.”
While that’s technically true for jurisdictio. n, it’s misleading when talking about supply chain impact. U.S. scheduling of re. agents like propionic anhydride and propionyl chlorid e doesn’t just affect do mestic usage
it affects global suppliers, espec. ially Chinese and Indian exporters, because they don’t want to risk U.S. trade rest. rictions, blacklists, or flagged shipments. Tha. t’s why China scheduled NPP and 4-ANPP years ago e. ven though those weren’t being used in Chinese domestic drugs. International control cascades........ Sigh
> “Those reagents... are not involved in the synthesis of the enanthate ester.”
Sigh..... We weren’t talking about enanthate. The shortage specifically involves Primo (methenolone acetate) and Mast (drostanolone propionate), both of which rely on acetic anhydride and propionyl chloride/anhydride, respectively
exact same reagents used in fentanyl acylation (final coupling step).
> “They’re just trivial esterification steps.”
Triple sigh...... That “trivial step” is exactly where the bottleneck is. These are prodrugs... without the ester, they’re not Primo or Mast. And unlike testosterone where multiple esters are common, Primo and Mast are defined by those specific esters. No propionyl chloride = no Mast. No acetic anhydride = no Primo.
> “That would apply to all esters.”
Finally something right. , and that’s exactly the point. But not all esters rely on controlled reagents. For example, enanthic acid (for enanthate) and cypionic acid (for cypionate) are less tightly watched because they’re not major fentanyl intermediates. Propionyl chloride and propionic anhydride are......
So yes, the fentanyl crackdown is absolutely choking access to these reagents... even outside the U.S.
. and it’s having ripple effects across multiple industries, not just AAS. That’s documented in DEA reports, Federal Register notices, and UN precursor updates.
Let’s keep the debate accurate. If you want references, I’ll link the 2025 DEA NPRM on propionyl chloride and the INCB’s March 2024 Table I precursor update.
I got all day and i sure love a good debate.
TheScholarOfBrew
Subscriber
And before a rebuttal
I was already 10 steps ahead
As per normal when i deal with ignorance.
Without the ester, you don’t have Primo or Mast.
You just have the raw base steroid (like 1-methyl-DHT or 2α-methyl-DHT), which is not bioequivalent, has different pharmacokinetics, and isn’t what the market is looking for.
I'm begging for a good mind stimulus and debate. So please give it to me PLEASE
> “These are prodrugs... without the ester, they’re not Primo or Mast.”
"Prodrug" here means the ester form is inactive until it’s injected and then slowly converted into the active steroid (methenolone or drostanolone). The ester controls the release rate and half-life. Without it, the compound has no commercial or medical identity as Primo or Mast.
I was already 10 steps ahead
As per normal when i deal with ignorance.
Without the ester, you don’t have Primo or Mast.
You just have the raw base steroid (like 1-methyl-DHT or 2α-methyl-DHT), which is not bioequivalent, has different pharmacokinetics, and isn’t what the market is looking for.
I'm begging for a good mind stimulus and debate. So please give it to me PLEASE
> “These are prodrugs... without the ester, they’re not Primo or Mast.”
"Prodrug" here means the ester form is inactive until it’s injected and then slowly converted into the active steroid (methenolone or drostanolone). The ester controls the release rate and half-life. Without it, the compound has no commercial or medical identity as Primo or Mast.
You’re a methhead little boy living a walter white fantasy. I’m done with you.
I don’t take kindly to liars.
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Zuespas
New Member
I’ve been seeing shortages across the board with labs in Canada. Not just primo and Mast. Primo-e, mast-e, deca, Anadrol, Tbol, T400 even some SARMs are low stock with many different labs.
When I ask my sources about it, they are all saying, all raws out of china right now are almost impossible to get.
When I ask my sources about it, they are all saying, all raws out of china right now are almost impossible to get.
TheScholarOfBrew
Subscriber
Nice Rebuttal.
nothing to say so your brain has no choice but go for the emotional charged response.
See ya. Everyone here can see whos walking with the tail between the legs on this one.
TheScholarOfBrew
Subscriber
Yes my fellow bro in
everything i say is true and factual. Some of the shortage is being taken advantage by intentionally withholding supplies but mast and primo are BYE BYE for quite awhile. Iv laid it out that even a idiot can understand. Some still dont grasp it so they resort to assumptions about my understanding of the subject or my aspiring motivations to be the most knowledgeable person in this scene. But the truth dont care about YOoooooo feelings as they say.
TurboJet
Member
So how far did you compete chemistry in college or are you self taught?
HeatherSwanson
Member
If chinas factories are shut down, im waiting for the Indian raws to come into the scene... Everything will look like tren and smell like coriander lollll
TheScholarOfBrew
Subscriber
Good luck with india. Dont get me started on their inability to part with the raws with out scamming. This isn't necessarily a race issue but india has a bad reputation with actual GIVING you what you ordered unless its pharmaceutical api TABS AND PILLs.
Yet they sit on KG and KG of vaild steroid API and talk big game but still rather scam you than send anything of value. Theres a reason most of the top UGL labs domestic side dont fuck with india and now are suffering because options are THIN. They offer no recourse or refund or credit if anything is seized. Its pay me and HOPE you might or might not get something which was the ways of old in 2005. Do we really want to go backwards?
Far enough to see through his lies. It’s basic chemistry and common sense.
TheScholarOfBrew
Subscriber
You keep calling it “basic chemistry,” but what you’re actually doing is skipping the part where you read.
If you had even skimmed the DEA’s 2025 rulemaking proposals, you’d already know propionyl chloride is being scheduled as a List I chemical because of its use in fentanyl production.
Now here’s where the “basic chemistry” comes in:
Mast = drostanolone propionate.
You don’t have Mast without the propionate, and you don’t have propionate without propionyl chloride or anhydride. Same logic applies to Primo and acetic anhydride, which is already DEA List II.
The fact that this needs to be explained to you multiple times kind of answers your own question... about who studied chemistry and who just watches Netflix and connects dots with crayons.
Calling it “trivial esterification” is like saying a car doesn’t need wheels because they’re just “bolted on.” Without the ester, it’s not Mast. It’s not Primo. It’s just a half-finished compound sitting in a beaker.
So maybe instead of calling people liars, take a second to check your facts and catch up.
You’re being ridiculous. You know it’s not a propionate shortage, it’s a shortage of all steroids. Masteron Enanthate and Primo Enanthate both are prime examples. None of these are really affected by a prioponyl chloride or acetic anhydride ban. (If that was a thing that chinese chemical producers were subject to).
TheScholarOfBrew
Subscriber
Yes yes yes yes
You're still not getting it. Nobody said the enanthate versions directly require propionyl chloride or acetic anhydride. The issue isn’t the specific reagent
it’s the regulatory fallout from those reagents being scheduled that’s bleeding into everything else.
Mast E and Primo E are produced in the exact same industrial ecosystem as the propionate and acetate versions. When propionyl chloride and acetic anhydride got flagged, Chinese exporters and Indian suppliers didn’t stop to debate ester logic.
they just started pulling the plug on anything that:
Shares production infrastructure
Ships with monitored solvents (DMF, DCM, acetonitrile)
Involves flagged reduction agents like NaBH₄
Contains steroid cores that trip red flags in customs
You can handwave the chemistry, but logistics doesn’t care. Once one part of the production line gets scheduled, the entire facility becomes a liability. That’s why your “Primo E is unaffected” claim falls flat... because it's not the molecule that’s restricted, it’s the entire pipeline feeding into it.
So yes, Mast E and Primo E are collateral damage. That’s how modern chemical compliance works. It’s not about whether the ester requires propionyl chloride... it’s about whether the people making it want to deal with the risk.
But by all means, keep arguing with an export blacklist.
Why the do you think we started getting low quality junk just brilliantly not long ago? Shit disgusting garbage straight out of china. They was rushing to make what they COULD in underground labs. Now no one is risking it for now. Nothing fresh. All OLD stock. That rush was shown in the quality.
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Ghoul
Member
More than anything it seems China's decided it's not in their interest to be the illegal drug precursor supplier to the world.
The timing of this, right after the last election, stopping the flow prior to the new admin coming in, and before Biden pulled the trigger on the long looming de minimus crack down.
Supplying drug labs from fentanyl to steroids couldn't approach the tiniest fraction of the value to China's economy of even relatively small, legal export industries under threat from trade friction.
Those Chinese chem companies were never allowed to do what they were doing. China is a signed participant of a treaty the forbids the export of thousands of precursors to unauthorized recipients. Presumably the CCP intentionally turned a blind eye to it. but once it no longer served their interest they turned off the tap.
Another element here is China's intention to go from largest supplier of generic drug APIs to becoming the world's leading new drug innovator. They even have plenty of trained chemists and lab operators coming from the UGL scene to supply the needs of this growing industry.
Was time for them to "go legit" and take away the main excuse their adversaries could hold against them to restrict the legal pharma trade, which is infinitely more valuable then the worldwide trade in synthetic opioids (and certainly steroids).
Those who insist this will "go back" to the way it was are wrong. Whatever happens, that old market is gone. What takes its place is anyone's guess. Something will, but how long to restore the quality, selection, ease of access, and ultra low prices? Not too soon imo. Years at the least, and I suspect we haven't seen the worst of the shortages yet.
The timing of this, right after the last election, stopping the flow prior to the new admin coming in, and before Biden pulled the trigger on the long looming de minimus crack down.
Supplying drug labs from fentanyl to steroids couldn't approach the tiniest fraction of the value to China's economy of even relatively small, legal export industries under threat from trade friction.
Those Chinese chem companies were never allowed to do what they were doing. China is a signed participant of a treaty the forbids the export of thousands of precursors to unauthorized recipients. Presumably the CCP intentionally turned a blind eye to it. but once it no longer served their interest they turned off the tap.
Another element here is China's intention to go from largest supplier of generic drug APIs to becoming the world's leading new drug innovator. They even have plenty of trained chemists and lab operators coming from the UGL scene to supply the needs of this growing industry.
Was time for them to "go legit" and take away the main excuse their adversaries could hold against them to restrict the legal pharma trade, which is infinitely more valuable then the worldwide trade in synthetic opioids (and certainly steroids).
Those who insist this will "go back" to the way it was are wrong. Whatever happens, that old market is gone. What takes its place is anyone's guess. Something will, but how long to restore the quality, selection, ease of access, and ultra low prices? Not too soon imo. Years at the least, and I suspect we haven't seen the worst of the shortages yet.
TheScholarOfBrew
Subscriber
All ties into what im saying
Red flag and puts them into a hot seat.
The middle man can't get raws to resell to people in the ugl market. People actually think it was factories selling this? Maybe qsc had the closest connection by far but there was not factories shipping illegal goods directly to ugl. Its always a middle man.
With a lovely persona of being a beautiful asian girl with nice personality (not qsc lol he was unhinged)
TurboJet
Member
I appreciate you tailoring your comments to me, specifically.
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