Hunger is winning – Upping Reta or Adding Tirz?

[pewex]

Hey everyone,

I’m heading into week 13 of my cut, and it's starting to get really tough now that I'm down to mid single BF%. Up until now, I've been cruising on 5 mg of Reta a week, with barely any food noise or cravings. But over the last 2 weeks, the hunger and cravings have gone through the roof. I "crashed" last weekend and this one too.

I have 6 weeks of dieting left and my calories are pretty low.
I know it’s mostly a mental game for these last 6 weeks, but I want to make it as manageable as possible. So I'm thinking about either bumping up my Reta dose to 7.5 or 10 mg weekly, or maybe adding another GLP (I’ve got Tirz on hand) into the mix.

What do you guys think? Would upping the Reta or adding Tirz be better? I know the whole "just tough it out" mindset is ideal, but I’m struggling and I’m ready to increase the dose or stack if it’ll help.

My only concern is that I’m not exactly "obese" or overweight. I’m sitting at around 190 lbs and about true 7% BF, almost stage-ready.

Any input is appreciated!

 

[newguy2]

Think of GLPs turning down the body fat / weight setting your body wants to maintain.

If you're above this setting, appetite suppression kicks in to bring you back down.

Below it, appetite stimulation occurs to drive you back up.

The further away you are from this "homeostasis" body fat / weight, the stronger the appetite suppression or stimulation will be.

An increased GLP dose turns the setting down lower.

Reta has a max dose of 12mg. I don't think it's necessary or advisable to add another compound since Reta has been working well for you, and you're no where near the max dose.

How does this impact weight loss? For instance if running a deficit on a GLP 1 does one need to up the dose if the scale stops?

Or just so the normal drop food/up cardio or all of the above?

 

[Ghoul]

How does this impact weight loss? For instance if running a deficit on a GLP 1 does one need to up the dose if the scale stops?

Or just so the normal drop food/up cardio or all of the above?

It's pretty common for people to wait until they plateau, at which point appetite suppression is no longer noticeable on a given dose, before titrating to the next dose level if they're not at ideal weight yet. Then appetite suppression returns until they drop to whatever that dose is taking them to.

Obviously if you're upping calorie burn and forcing yourself into a deficit below what the reduced appetite is causing, you'll get there faster.

In the normal world of people under pharma treatment who reach ideal weight and get on a maintainance dose, they don't have to consciously count calories or "feel" anything. Appetite just works the way it's supposed to. Once they've eaten a sufficient amount they feel full and stop eating. (the way it works for people with properly functioning appetite regulation). If they try to eat too much they'll feel sick, so they don't. Weight stays stable for 4 years plus according to the long term extended pharma trials. There's no loss of effectiveness.

 

[newguy2]

It's pretty common for people to wait until they plateau, at which point appetite suppression is no longer noticeable on a given dose, before titrating to the next dose level if they're not at ideal weight yet. Then appetite suppression returns until they drop to whatever that dose is taking them to.

Obviously if you're upping calorie burn and forcing yourself into a deficit below what the reduced appetite is causing, you'll get there faster.

In the normal world of people under pharma treatment who reach ideal weight and get on a maintainance dose, they don't have to consciously count calories or "feel" anything. Appetite just works the way it's supposed to. Once they've eaten a sufficient amount they feel full and stop eating. (the way it works for people with properly functioning appetite regulation). If they try to eat too much they'll feel sick, so they don't. Weight stays stable for 4 years plus according to the long term extended pharma trials. There's no loss of effectiveness.

I'm supposed to take my 4th shot at 2.5 on Friday. But it's Tuesday and I'm getting hungry trying to hold off going beyond my calorie budget

Also the scale has stalled for a week but digestion has also stalled quite a bit over that week.

Thinking about bumping to 5mg for the 4th shot.

 

[Ghoul]

I'm supposed to take my 4th shot at 2.5 on Friday. But it's Tuesday and I'm getting hungry trying to hold off going beyond my calorie budget

Also the scale has stalled for a week but digestion has also stalled quite a bit over that week.

Thinking about bumping to 5mg for the 4th shot.

Go for it. Response is all over the board. There's no expectation of certain effects at a particular dose that applies to everyone.

I assume it's because we all have different baseline GLP/GIP hormone levels. There's also variation in GLP/GIP receptor density.

It's not dissimilar to any other hormone being supplemented exogenously, like TRT doses or insulin.

I felt nothing in Tirz before 7.5mg. Nothing at all. Others are doubled over the toilet after their first 2.5mg shot.

For example, in general women are far more sensitive to lower doses of GLPs than men, because we have much higher GLP receptor densities, and the weight loss effects are dependent on the proportion of receptors agonized, so men need more, even at the same body size.

Just increase the dose. In the trials they took a group from 2 right to 8 and they had good results without terrible sides. 2.5 to 5 is conservative for Reta, and may be your "sweet spot" for just enough, but not too much appetite suppression.

 

[newguy2]

Go for it. Response is all over the board. There's no expectation of certain effects at a particular dose that applies to everyone.

I assume it's because we all have different baseline GLP/GIP hormone levels. There's also variation in GLP/GIP receptor density.

It's not dissimilar to any other hormone being supplemented exogenously, like TRT doses or insulin.

I felt nothing in Tirz before 7.5mg. Nothing at all. Others are doubled over the toilet after their first 2.5mg shot.

For example, in general women are far more sensitive to lower doses of GLPs than men, because we have much higher GLP receptor densities, and the weight loss effects are dependent on the proportion of receptors agonized, so men need more, even at the same body size.

Just increase the dose. In the trials they took a group from 2 right to 8 and they had good results without terrible sides. 2.5 to 5 is conservative for Reta, and may be your "sweet spot" for just enough, but not too much appetite suppression.

This is Tirz sorry but I assume the same applies.

The second week the effect was really strong. At what point almost like I was on amphetamines as food was not sure appealing.

 

[Ghoul]

This is Tirz sorry but I assume the same applies.

The second week the effect was really strong. At what point almost like I was on amphetamines as food was not sure appealing.

Sorry yes, the same applies (but not the large "jump" in dose, since Tirz has stronger sides, not that I was recommending it with Reta, and was just using that for illustration that your increase was modest). You're using the same clinically acceptable increase that every pharma Tirz user goes to. 2.5->5

 

[sokurovsky]

As Ghoul mentioned in another thread, try adding low dose Sema to Reta. Wouldn't add Tirz onto Reta.

Partner and I have had good success with low dose Sema for appetite suppression, but haven't tried cagrillintide, which is another potential solution.

Curious if the metabolic boosting effects of reta have kept you from gaining weight while dieting? Just starting Reta this week (1.5mg) as a trial dose.

Only been on 3mg tirz every 10-14 days as a maintenance dose (as I'm trying to gain/recomp rn.)

 

[sterlingschrute]

As Ghoul mentioned in another thread, try adding low dose Sema to Reta. Wouldn't add Tirz onto Reta.

Partner and I have had good success with low dose Sema for appetite suppression, but haven't tried cagrillintide, which is another potential solution.

Curious if the metabolic boosting effects of reta have kept you from gaining weight while dieting? Just starting Reta this week (1.5mg) as a trial dose.

Only been on 3mg tirz every 10-14 days as a maintenance dose (as I'm trying to gain/recomp rn.)

A short while later...how is the addition of reta going for you? Are you taking any extra supps (preventative) to mitigate the reta sides?

 

[pewex]

A short while later...how is the addition of reta going for you? Are you taking any extra supps (preventative) to mitigate the reta sides?

I bumped my Reta dose to 7.5 mg weekly right after this post and didn't notice any difference. Upped it to 10 mg the following week, and still felt no difference. Zero, zilch nada. Maybe a slight decrease in hunger and a bit more satiety, but overall, no real changes.

Not sure if I should jump straight to 15 mg now or stick with 10 mg a bit longer, then switch to Tirz once this cut is over and I’m heading into the rebound phase.

I'm hesitant to switch to Tirz during my rebound in a few weeks because when I tried 2.5 mg in the off-season, it completely killed my appetite and gave me acid reflux.

Interestingly, while a lot of people report fatigue on Tirz, I didn't experience that until I switched to Reta. But to be fair, that could just be from dieting and accumulated fatigue rather than the drug itself.

I'm starting to think that running 10-15 mg of Reta long term, especially during the rebound or off-season, might be overkill. Not sure if those doses are really necessary when my main goals in the off season are just maintaining good body composition and improving blood glucose levels and insulin sensitivity.

I also ordered over two months worth of CGMs since I’ll be comparing Reta and Tirz and running some experiments in about three weeks, once prep wraps up.

 

[sterlingschrute]

I bumped my Reta dose to 7.5 mg weekly right after this post and didn't notice any difference. Upped it to 10 mg the following week, and still felt no difference. Zero, zilch nada. Maybe a slight decrease in hunger and a bit more satiety, but overall, no real changes.

Not sure if I should jump straight to 15 mg now or stick with 10 mg a bit longer, then switch to Tirz once this cut is over and I’m heading into the rebound phase.

I'm hesitant to switch to Tirz during my rebound in a few weeks because when I tried 2.5 mg in the off-season, it completely killed my appetite and gave me acid reflux.

Interestingly, while a lot of people report fatigue on Tirz, I didn't experience that until I switched to Reta. But to be fair, that could just be from dieting and accumulated fatigue rather than the drug itself.

I'm starting to think that running 10-15 mg of Reta long term, especially during the rebound or off-season, might be overkill. Not sure if those doses are really necessary when my main goals in the off season are just maintaining good body composition and improving blood glucose levels and insulin sensitivity.

I also ordered over two months worth of CGMs since I’ll be comparing Reta and Tirz and running some experiments in about three weeks, once prep wraps up.

Interesting stuff. Did you take a slow approach to titration, or did you dive right in?

I was thinking of going .5mg every 3 days for 2 weeks, then doubling every 4 weeks (1mg every 3d for 4w, 2mg every 3d for 4w, etc.). However, I've seen [anecdotally] a few people on here start with 2mg and rapidly increase.

Was there any point where a rapid increase in dosing led to increased sides? Did you not really see that happen with dosage increases, or did you not really see sides at all, throughout your experimentation with reta?

 

[pewex]

Interesting stuff. Did you take a slow approach to titration, or did you dive right in?

I was thinking of going .5mg every 3 days for 2 weeks, then doubling every 4 weeks (1mg every 3d for 4w, 2mg every 3d for 4w, etc.). However, I've seen [anecdotally] a few people on here start with 2mg and rapidly increase.

Was there any point where a rapid increase in dosing led to increased sides? Did you not really see that happen with dosage increases, or did you not really see sides at all, throughout your experimentation with reta?

I started at 1mg weekly because many content creators claim it's life changing, but I honestly didn’t feel anything.

Then I bumped up to 2.5mg and here I noticed slightly less food noise, though I wasn't in a real deficit yet. As my prep progressed and the cut got deeper and calories lower, I had to keep increasing the dose 2.5mg to 5mg, then 7.5mg, now 10mg, but none of it really killed my appetite.

My goal wasn't just fat loss. I also wanted to blunt hunger which didn’t quite happen (or maybe it did), control blood glucose and improve insulin sensitivity. At this point I just don’t know what normal hunger feels like anymore or how I should feel at this stage since this is the leanest and lowest calorie I've ever been.

Maybe it did blunt my appetite and I just don't realize it. Early on things felt easy. It's only in the last few weeks that hunger and food noise really hit hard.

Lately, I keep shifting meals from the next day to the evening because I'm constantly thinking about food, which only makes it worse. Then I have to cut that meal the next day, and it's become a vicious cycle.

I'll stick with it for a few more weeks and plan to experiment more with Tirz afterward. I've got some 30mg Reta kits on the way, might go full mongo bongo, we'll see.

 

[sterlingschrute]

I started at 1mg weekly because many content creators claim it's life changing, but I honestly didn’t feel anything.

Then I bumped up to 2.5mg and here I noticed slightly less food noise, though I wasn't in a real deficit yet. As my prep progressed and the cut got deeper and calories lower, I had to keep increasing the dose 2.5mg to 5mg, then 7.5mg, now 10mg, but none of it really killed my appetite.

My goal wasn't just fat loss. I also wanted to blunt hunger which didn’t quite happen (or maybe it did), control blood glucose and improve insulin sensitivity. At this point I just don’t know what normal hunger feels like anymore or how I should feel at this stage since this is the leanest and lowest calorie I've ever been.

Maybe it did blunt my appetite and I just don't realize it. Early on things felt easy. It's only in the last few weeks that hunger and food noise really hit hard.

Lately, I keep shifting meals from the next day to the evening because I'm constantly thinking about food, which only makes it worse. Then I have to cut that meal the next day, and it's become a vicious cycle.

I'll stick with it for a few more weeks and plan to experiment more with Tirz afterward. I've got some 30mg Reta kits on the way, might go full mongo bongo, we'll see.

It would be perfect if reta has no change on my appetite. I am not seeking the food noise reduction, honestly. My worst fear is actually that it increases appetite/hunger, which I hear commonly happens.

Currently cutting, and have good control on calories and feelings of hunger. I don't want it to make me a bottomless pit, but we will see. Starting #1 here in a few days.

You using any supps to support the reta specifically? I've seen iron bisglycinate and lactoferrin mentioned on here as important supps for users of any of the GLPs

 

[pewex]

It would be perfect if reta has no change on my appetite. I am not seeking the food noise reduction, honestly. My worst fear is actually that it increases appetite/hunger, which I hear commonly happens.

Currently cutting, and have good control on calories and feelings of hunger. I don't want it to make me a bottomless pit, but we will see. Starting #1 here in a few days.

You using any supps to support the reta specifically? I've seen iron bisglycinate and lactoferrin mentioned on here as important supps for users of any of the GLPs

I'm taking supplements, but nothing specifically to "support" Reta. Honestly, you can just start low at 1mg/week you've got nothing to lose and increase gradually whenever you need: 1mg, 2.5mg, 5mg, ...

From what I know, Reta has the weakest appetite suppressing effect, so it’s actually the best option for you.

Good luck!

 

[sterlingschrute]

I'm taking supplements, but nothing specifically to "support" Reta. Honestly, you can just start low at 1mg/week you've got nothing to lose and increase gradually whenever you need: 1mg, 2.5mg, 5mg, ...

From what I know, Reta has the weakest appetite suppressing effect, so it’s actually the best option for you.

Good luck!

Thanks for your wisdom. My first venture into GLP was a 4-month bout with sema, and, although it got me to my goal weight for that project...it was rough. I am hoping reta is a much more pleasant experience. Ready to reap the two other benefits that were lacking with just sema

 

[demal]

I have a similar experience with reta. I started with 2.5mg and upped to 5mg, where appetite suppression was noticable. However after two weeks, the hunger & cravings came back. Tried 7.5mg, even 10mg - not much help.

However, once I added 0.5mg (now at 1mg) of Sema - guess what? My hunger and cravings disappeared.

So I would recommend you to throw in some semaglutide (if you manage to get your hands on it fast rn) and see how you'll react.

 

[Ghoul]

I have a similar experience with reta. I started with 2.5mg and upped to 5mg, where appetite suppression was noticable. However after two weeks, the hunger & cravings came back. Tried 7.5mg, even 10mg - not much help.

However, once I added 0.5mg (now at 1mg) of Sema - guess what? My hunger and cravings disappeared.

So I would recommend you to throw in some semaglutide (if you manage to get your hands on it fast rn) and see how you'll react.

This a very common theme with Reta, it makes you wonder how successful it'll be on the weight loss market.

Either that or there's something not quite right with UGL Reta vs the pharma produced version used in the trials which appears to be more effective for weight loss than Sema/Tirz.

 

[dinfar1337]

This a very common theme with Reta, it makes you wonder how successful it'll be on the weight loss market.

Either that or there's something not quite right with UGL Reta vs the pharma produced version used in the trials which appears to be more effective for weight loss than Sema/Tirz.

better for diabetics rather than appetite suppresion. hence we bodybuilders love it since we can bulk with it aswell

 

[pewex]

I have a similar experience with reta. I started with 2.5mg and upped to 5mg, where appetite suppression was noticable. However after two weeks, the hunger & cravings came back. Tried 7.5mg, even 10mg - not much help.

However, once I added 0.5mg (now at 1mg) of Sema - guess what? My hunger and cravings disappeared.

So I would recommend you to throw in some semaglutide (if you manage to get your hands on it fast rn) and see how you'll react.

Since I'm less than 2 weeks out, I'm not going to start adding Sema or Tirz right now. But I definitely plan to experiment with them after the show. Looking ahead, I think using Reta early in prep for the glucagon component and increase in fat burning could be a good strategy. Then, later in prep when calories are really low and hunger ramps up, either switching to Tirz or adding cagrilintide or a low dose of Sema, like you mentioned, could help manage appetite.

This a very common theme with Reta, it makes you wonder how successful it'll be on the weight loss market.

Either that or there's something not quite right with UGL Reta vs the pharma produced version used in the trials which appears to be more effective for weight loss than Sema/Tirz.

I wonder if all these content creators are getting kickbacks from sales or something. I keep seeing ridiculous claims like 0.5 mg/week completely curbed my appetite or improved my A1C by 5% and halved my HDL and triglycerides. Now that I've actually used both Reta and Tirz myself, I can say they're all overhyping Reta .

 

[pewex]

Honestly, I don't really know to what extent the 10 mg actually curbed my appetite, since I've never been this lean before and this will be my first bodybuilding competition.

I also don't know what impact it had on my blood markers or insulin sensitivity, because I didn't track them and don't have a baseline for comparison with my current diet and activity level.

I'll have a better idea soon, because I've stopped the 10 mg of Reta for the final 2 weeks to help fill out, based on the advice of a respected coach.

 

[dinfar1337]

Honestly, I don't really know to what extent the 10 mg actually curbed my appetite, since I've never been this lean before and this will be my first bodybuilding competition.

I also don't know what impact it had on my blood markers or insulin sensitivity, because I didn't track them and don't have a baseline for comparison with my current diet and activity level.

I'll have a better idea soon, because I've stopped the 10 mg of Reta for the final 2 weeks to help fill out, based on the advice of a respected coach.

why are you not checking your bloodsugar levels while competing? im more of thinking not in a context to see if you're becoming diabetic but more of in a context making sure you wont pass out on stage