Deca/NPP vs High Test for lean tissue gains?

[xrayphoton13]

800 test doesn’t compare to NPP,

The pump/strength gain you get from NPP is unreal. I ran 200mg/wk test c and 700mg/wk npp and thats when I felt my biggest, str shooting through the roof each week.
Keep e2 in control and you can run high npp with no sides.

I just started running an experiment on myself to try this since in the past I always had to do very low or no test with high NPP or I'd have gyno issues. I started 400mg test/600mg EQ/100mg npp and it's been a week with no issues. In the past 500 test/100npp would have triggered firey nipples. So the EQ is doing a great job keeping e2 down and I feel better than test/mast which awesome too. I'm gonna push the NPP and see what the limit is before I need aromasin

 

[oldgrey]

I just started running an experiment on myself to try this since in the past I always had to do very low or no test with high NPP or I'd have gyno issues. I started 400mg test/600mg EQ/100mg npp and it's been a week with no issues. In the past 500 test/100npp would have triggered firey nipples. So the EQ is doing a great job keeping e2 down and I feel better than test/mast which awesome too. I'm gonna push the NPP and see what the limit is before I need aromasin

also been toying with the idea of adding npp at 50-100mg/week as I have a bottle just sitting there lol! Never started it with fears of gyno, and then was cutting and forgot about it. Never used nandrolone before - so slightly curious to how I will react - but here goes hopes for normal feeling nipples and no crazy water retention lol!

 

[xrayphoton13]

also been toying with the idea of adding npp at 50-100mg/week as I have a bottle just sitting there lol! Never started it with fears of gyno, and then was cutting and forgot about it. Never used nandrolone before - so slightly curious to how I will react - but here goes hopes for normal feeling nipples and no crazy water retention lol!

Just have some aromasin on hand. When it happened to me before I took a single dose of 12.5mg aromasin (maybe it was 25mg?) and 60mg raloxifene and didn't need anything else while the NPP left my system over the next few days. Killed the fiery itchy feeling and no gyno growth

 

[oldgrey]

Just have some aromasin on hand. When it happened to me before I took a single dose of 12.5mg aromasin (maybe it was 25mg?) and 60mg raloxifene and didn't need anything else while the NPP left my system over the next few days. Killed the fiery itchy feeling and no gyno growth

aromasin, arimadex and novla on deck in case of emergency ! Hoping not to touch them, but I'll try my first npp in the next 12 hours... (proud parent voice lol)
Most people say half life is short but they "feel" it pretty quick - some report longer half life and gradual or subtle "feels". What is your experience?

 

[xrayphoton13]

aromasin, arimadex and novla on deck in case of emergency ! Hoping not to touch them, but I'll try my first npp in the next 12 hours... (proud parent voice lol)
Most people say half life is short but they "feel" it pretty quick - some report longer half life and gradual or subtle "feels". What is your experience?

I take it 2-3x a week. I think the half life is longer like enanthate. This is what type-IIx has said as well that it probably only needs 2x/week injections

 

[Benben]

M

I honestly think test is very overrated, it’s my least favorite compound, I just take it because my body required, less is more. Mast, primo, deca and Anavar is the good stuff

Mast AND Primo?

Feb 1 starts my next cycle:
Test
Primo
NPP
Anavar

Been looking forward to this run since before X-Mass!!!

 

[Georgetrenson]

800 test doesn’t compare to NPP,

The pump/strength gain you get from NPP is unreal. I ran 200mg/wk test c and 700mg/wk npp and thats when I felt my biggest, str shooting through the roof each week.
Keep e2 in control and you can run high npp with no sides.

The thing I love about NPP is that the mass is so clean for the dose, back to my point about there being a ton of water retention overhead w test.

With npp the mass is all in the muscle, nothing messing w your midsection and skin

 

[Georgetrenson]

M

Mast AND Primo?

Feb 1 starts my next cycle:
Test
Primo
NPP
Anavar

Been looking forward to this run since before X-Mass!!!

Thats my next stack, except im taking deca, long esters are the bomb. Im excited to use primo instead of mast, I dont think mast is great when e2 gets pretty high on a blast, and primo just makes you fuller.

I’d save the anavar for the end. Bulk up to like 12-15%, then throw in the var and keep training as hard on less cals to clean the cycle up.

I think Primo and Nandrolone are the best anabolics for growth, with the minimum test dose to get everything to work and support weekly amounts. Golden era vibes baby.

 

[xrayphoton13]

Thats my next stack, except im taking deca, long esters are the bomb. Im excited to use primo instead of mast, I dont think mast is great when e2 gets pretty high on a blast, and primo just makes you fuller.

I’d save the anavar for the end. Bulk up to like 12-15%, then throw in the var and keep training as hard on less cals to clean the cycle up.

I think Primo and Nandrolone are the best anabolics for growth, with the minimum test dose to get everything to work and support weekly amounts. Golden era vibes baby.

I do prefer the long esters too once I know a compound works with me.

Have any of y'all seen if there's any merit/truth to long esters being twice as anabolic as short? And short esters being more androgenic than long? I've read this several times that it was proven in a study but I haven't seen the study. And if it exists was it done well enough to trust?

 

[QuadFather]

Trenbologna >

 

[Georgetrenson]

I do prefer the long esters too once I know a compound works with me.

Have any of y'all seen if there's any merit/truth to long esters being twice as anabolic as short? And short esters being more androgenic than long? I've read this several times that it was proven in a study but I haven't seen the study. And if it exists was it done well enough to trust?

That sounds like bullshit to me. I just like long more because they feel less janky, once its in your system everything just feels nice and smooth, can slowly and smoothly build the cycle up pin by pin

Short esters are more surgical tools, I can implement them to test potential dosages if I’m unsure what I’m doing or switch to them to control tapering off a compound.

 

[xrayphoton13]

That sounds like bullshit to me. I just like long more because they feel less janky, once its in your system everything just feels nice and smooth, can slowly and smoothly build the cycle up pin by pin

Short esters are more surgical tools, I can implement them to test potential dosages if I’m unsure what I’m doing or switch to them to control tapering off a compound.

Agree. I've tried tren ace and tren enth. Much prefer 2x week pinning of enth to daily or EOD ace. But it was good to try ace first to see if it would cause me issues

 

[Whopperflopper]

Test and Tren I grew. Strong as an ox. Looked good.

Test and Deca with Hgh, made me silly big, strength was there, so was the bloat.

 

[espresso123]

Pretty hard to beat.

I can't run nandrolone personally. Anxiety and panic creeps up pretty fast on me. If I was single I'd probably weather it out

Can totally relate to that. Nandro messes up with my mood pretty much. Can be from euphoric to totally depressed and down + weird nightmares.

However, regarding the compound itself, I have never used something better regarding joints/tendons ever. I do not even need to use that compound high at all to benefit from it, Im on 150 NPP weekly atm and at the gym i love it. Else it is pretty difficult to handle mentally for me personally.

Using my TRT + NPP is way more potent in any aspect than double down test only. Two edged sword if you ask me.

Thats why I use NPP, easy to get rid of it if needed.. and awesome it kicks in so quickly.

But as mentioned, needs time and experience and understanding how to manage it properly, it affects aldosterone, fluid retention etc etc. Would also not recommend Deca until you found out which dosages and personal ratios to test work for the individual itself.

 

[Georgetrenson]

Agree. I've tried tren ace and tren enth. Much prefer 2x week pinning of enth to daily or EOD ace. But it was good to try ace first to see if it would cause me issues

Funny enough tren is the only compound id never touch the long ester; i only tried it for a week, I could tolerate it, but it feels harsh and dirty, I dont want it lingering around if I have a health issue.

 

[NightBeast666]

Assuming that someone is only interested in retained lean tissue gain, after a 20 week cycle, what is the rough equivalent of a 200 Test, 300 Deca Cycle; but running Test only. 800mg Test?

I understand that Deca/NPP comes with lots of other benefits/sides compared to a large cycle of test only. My question only concerns retained lean tissue gains after a 20 week cycle.

Thanks,

Great keepable lean muscle mass is not just a product of how much/what roids you use, but your training, nutrition and recovery aswell.
But since you asked specifically, here you go-
Test Enanthate- 75 mgs/day.
GH- 2 IUs/day.
Pre-workout Humalog/Humulin-R- 5 IUs.
Anavar- 10 mgs/day.
Metformin- 1000-1500 mgs/day.
Slin pills 30 mins vefore and after each meal.
Vallium- As much needed to have a good night's sleep whenever you'd have trouble sleeping (not that the test dosage would be a concern).
AIs/Anti DHT/Anti SHBG/BP meds- As much needed to keep the numbers in the normal range.
Calories- 500 surplus/day.
Macros- 60% carbs, 30% protein, 10% fat.
Workouts every other day.
No smoking/drinking.

Never come off of it. Not that you'd ever need to.

Hands down, infinitesimally better (both in terms of keepable gains and health-wise) than blasting a cocktail of drugs and then coming down to a "TRT dosage" resulting in losing most of all gains made.

 

[xrayphoton13]

Great keepable lean muscle mass is not just a product of how much/what roids you use, but your training, nutrition and recovery aswell.
But since you asked specifically, here you go-
Test Enanthate- 75 mgs/day.
GH- 2 IUs/day.
Pre-workout Humalog/Humulin-R- 5 IUs.
Anavar- 10 mgs/day.
Metformin- 1000-1500 mgs/day.
Slin pills 30 mins vefore and after each meal.
Vallium- As much needed to have a good night's sleep whenever you'd have trouble sleeping (not that the test dosage would be a concern).
AIs/Anti DHT/Anti SHBG/BP meds- As much needed to keep the numbers in the normal range.
Calories- 500 surplus/day.
Macros- 60% carbs, 30% protein, 10% fat.
Workouts every other day.
No smoking/drinking.

Never come off of it. Not that you'd ever need to.

Hands down, infinitesimally better (both in terms of keepable gains and health-wise) than blasting a cocktail of drugs and then coming down to a "TRT dosage" resulting in losing most of all gains made.

I really don't agree with this approach. I had to look up SLIN pills. It's fancy berberine. You don't need berberine and metformin. Pick one or the other. They do the same thing. Metformin arguably is better from a bodybuilding standpoint.
There's also no reason that you should need insulin, metformin, or berberine on this plan anyway unless you are diabetic or have a terrible diet.
2iu rHGH? Depending on your age I believe you could be making more than this naturally
500 kcal surplus is on the higher side. I know plenty of people do it but 250kcal would keep you from getting as much body fat.
Workouts every other day? There's a million ways to do a split effectively
Anavar daily for life is not gonna be great for your lipids or liver or shbg or possibly digestion. You already have 525mg test/week. Why would you want any amount of anavar on your non workout days? You're never going to achieve stay state blood levels with an oral and you don't need to. That's not what they are for
If you need an AI during a cruise or "trt+" I feel like you're doing it wrong.

Just my opinion. I'm not a doctor or expert. You are free to do whatever you like

 

[explodingHeart]

Who is selling deca currently? I thought China stopped making those raws. Are you guys using the last of your deca reserves? Or using the ultra expensive india deca?

 

[NightBeast666]

Who is selling deca currently? I thought China stopped making those raws. Are you guys using the last of your deca reserves? Or using the ultra expensive india deca?

Have a year's worth of Geneza NPP.

Indian pharma deca's £8 for a vial of 100 mgs. £12 for a vial of 25 mgs pharma NPP. Though that's top quality.

 

[Sicsemptyran]

My plan is to loose another 20lb then drop my test to 100mg and add 300mg of primo to put on lean muscle tissue. I never used primo and some say its too week and not worth the price and just run npp at 200 with the test and maybe add var. What are your thoughts guys on this?

For many of us (including myself) that 1:3 ratio of test/primo would put E2 in the gutter. I’d have undetectable amounts of E2 on that and likely feel like death.