HGH sleep issues

[400degrees]

About a month in on ugl GH, 4iu every night before bed, 2hrs after dinner. First couple weeks it knocked me out all night. Past couple weeks I've been wide awake at 3am every night. Almost feels like a cortisol spike. Wondering if I should ride it out, switch to am, or if anyone has had the same experience or knows the possible science behind this regarding the gh interactions with prolactin, progesterone or adrenals.

 

[Ateam2023]

Probably everyone should take magnesium because deficiency is rampant

But gotta manage expectations when it comes to sleep

Any form of magnesium, including the beloved threonate, has shit claims for improving any parameter of sleep

If you choose threonate, look for the branded ingredient Magtein -- at least you'll know what you're getting

Is this suitable? Or are there better mg doses? Any brand recommendations?

 

[AlexDavis43]

Is this suitable? Or are there better mg doses? Any brand recommendations?View attachment 333191

Yeah that's fine. Magtein is a branded ingredient so whatever product it's in, you know what you're getting.

Jarrow and Life Extension both have it (just mentioning those bc I never heard of Piping Rock).

 

[Ateam2023]

Yeah that's fine. Magtein is a branded ingredient so whatever product it's in, you know what you're getting.

Jarrow and Life Extension both have it (just mentioning those bc I never heard of Piping Rock).

piping rock is all lab tested , gmp, blah blah , the same ol sales pitch , lol, so it's legit , and they seem to have deals all the time,(except for the real popular stuff) but i will definitely take a look at those you mentioned, maybe they will be better price point,

 

[Elektrobot]

the trazadone really just gets me to sleep, still very effective, i can't stay asleep that long , up every 3 hrs it seems like clockwork,,

Have you ever considered or tried hydroxyzine? I switched from trazadone to hydroxyzine and sleep through the night now.

 

[Ateam2023]

Have you ever considered or tried hydroxyzine? I switched from trazadone to hydroxyzine and sleep through the night now.

that stuff doesn't put me to sleep like trazadone does, ive tried everything and trazadone is the only affective drug that puts me to sleep, otherwise im tossing and turning trying to fall asleep and it just is a turmoil, i believe my main problem is the biological clock that has me awaking every 3 hrs , to piss , currently trying to cut off fluid intake earlier in the day to minimize nighttime urination,

 

[Elektrobot]

that stuff doesn't put me to sleep like trazadone does, ive tried everything and trazadone is the only affective drug that puts me to sleep, otherwise im tossing and turning trying to fall asleep and it just is a turmoil, i believe my main problem is the biological clock that has me awaking every 3 hrs , to piss , currently trying to cut off fluid intake earlier in the day to minimize nighttime urination,

That's a miserable way to be, and I can relate. I'm glad the trazadone gets you some relief.

 

[AlexDavis43]

that stuff doesn't put me to sleep like trazadone does, ive tried everything and trazadone is the only affective drug that puts me to sleep, otherwise im tossing and turning trying to fall asleep and it just is a turmoil, i believe my main problem is the biological clock that has me awaking every 3 hrs , to piss , currently trying to cut off fluid intake earlier in the day to minimize nighttime urination,

Yeah I agree something to do with the biological clock - that makes more sense because I rarely actually have to pee when I wake up

I pee anyway because I need to kill 5 minutes before the sleep hits me and it usually hits pretty hard (I've fallen asleep on the couch a few times)

 

[Jin23]

It's not "something to do with the biological clock". It's HPA axis deregulation due to stress, most probably. You need to lay off.

 

[Ateam2023]

It's not "something to do with the biological clock". It's HPA axis deregulation due to stress, most probably. You need to lay off.

stop for how long?

 

[Jin23]

stop for how long?

That's impossible for me to answer. You're also probably using aas which further compounds the issue.

I can only give you my anecdote from my over sensitive and fucked CNS. If and when I overtrain (which really isn't that much volume at all) or have excessive stress I get to the same place you are describing. Hard and multiple awakenings through the night, especially during REM, less restful sleep and ofc, as you noted, need to pee app 4h after sleep onset. Mentally, I also become much less calm, less present, harder to focus, etc. It takes about two weeks for me to calm down and for sleep to restore. And it's really hard to get out of that "driven" state of mind. But this is now, that my CNS got to a better place, before it was much harder and it took a good year of me taking it gradually more easy with training.

However, I'm probably a harder case then you. If I calm down too much, my body starts loosing water and I become dehydrated and mentally confused. All of this happened as I chronically didn't listen to my body, basically due to my borderline personality disorder.

Either way, you need to take it easy. If you don't sleep, don't take drugs to fix that, it wont lead to any place good. However, that being said, things like antidepressants (ssri's) do help offset the cns fatigue by helping you regen faster and they are well known for fixing the overactive stress response (ie. HPA dysregulation) but they do come with their slew of issues. There's other compounds too, the ones which work anti-inflammatory. Cerebrolysine is a good choice, adaptogens, etc. But figuring out your own body and adapting to it's needs is the only real way to go.

 

[Ateam2023]

That's impossible for me to answer. You're also probably using aas which further compounds the issue.

I can only give you my anecdote from my over sensitive and fucked CNS. If and when I overtrain (which really isn't that much volume at all) or have excessive stress I get to the same place you are describing. Hard and multiple awakenings through the night, especially during REM, less restful sleep and ofc, as you noted, need to pee app 4h after sleep onset. Mentally, I also become much less calm, less present, harder to focus, etc. It takes about two weeks for me to calm down and for sleep to restore. And it's really hard to get out of that "driven" state of mind. But this is now, that my CNS got to a better place, before it was much harder and it took a good year of me taking it gradually more easy with training.

However, I'm probably a harder case then you. If I calm down too much, my body starts loosing water and I become dehydrated and mentally confused. All of this happened as I chronically didn't listen to my body, basically due to my borderline personality disorder.

Either way, you need to take it easy. If you don't sleep, don't take drugs to fix that, it wont lead to any place good. However, that being said, things like antidepressants (ssri's) do help offset the cns fatigue by helping you regen faster and they are well known for fixing the overactive stress response (ie. HPA dysregulation) but they do come with their slew of issues. There's other compounds too, the ones which work anti-inflammatory. Cerebrolysine is a good choice, adaptogens, etc. But figuring out your own body and adapting to it's needs is the only real way to go.

thanks for advice , but i get up to pee 2-3x thats my problem, and its been like that for 10+ years, no hidden surprises like prostate etc, and i take trazadone for ptsd related sleep issues incured from a tbi, so more compounded problems that are added to the mix, and as far as stress goes, i live about as stress free as possible, literally i don't have much stress so i doubt its a cortisol issue, but i will look into getting a Dhea-s test,morning cortisol test and also ACTH to see if im possibly cortisol depleted, and as far as overtraining, i have been verrry conservative for over a year now , bouncing back from surgeries etc, i still have current limitations that won't allow myself to push to hard (without permanently damage) i have just been "going through the motions" since late April,

 

[songsofpyramids]

i take trazadone for ptsd related sleep issues incured from a tbi

I don’t have a tbi but I do have c-ptsd. Have you tried Prazosin? It’s a blood pressure med that they’ve found is super impactful on sleep disordered by ptsd. I and several people I know have had super positive impact. I’ve read people even take Prazosin with Trazodone but don’t personally have experience with both at once. It’s helped me fix my seriously fucked sleep cycles.

@Jin23 very heartfelt and good post. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Ateam2023]

I don’t have a tbi but I do have c-ptsd. Have you tried Prazosin? It’s a blood pressure med that they’ve found is super impactful on sleep disordered by ptsd. I and several people I know have had super positive impact. I’ve read people even take Prazosin with Trazodone but don’t personally have experience with both at once. It’s helped me fix my seriously fucked sleep cycles.

@Jin23 very heartfelt and good post. Thank you for sharing.

yes i have tried prazosin, for years , i just didnt respond well or really it made my dreams more intense to nightmares, and they give it to people with tbi just for the cessation of nightmares, It was a no go for me,, thanks for that information though,

 

[Jin23]

thanks for advice , but i get up to pee 2-3x thats my problem, and its been like that for 10+ years, no hidden surprises like prostate etc, and i take trazadone for ptsd related sleep issues incured from a tbi, so more compounded problems that are added to the mix, and as far as stress goes, i live about as stress free as possible, literally i don't have much stress so i doubt its a cortisol issue, but i will look into getting a Dhea-s test,morning cortisol test and also ACTH to see if im possibly cortisol depleted, and as far as overtraining, i have been verrry conservative for over a year now , bouncing back from surgeries etc, i still have current limitations that won't allow myself to push to hard (without permanently damage) i have just been "going through the motions" since late April,

I never mentioned cortisol specifically. The brain is much more complex then that. And peeing that many times during sleep just means you have low sleep pressure which is due to ptsd as you mentioned as your brain is in a constant state of vigilance.

 

[Jin23]

I don’t have a tbi but I do have c-ptsd. Have you tried Prazosin? It’s a blood pressure med that they’ve found is super impactful on sleep disordered by ptsd. I and several people I know have had super positive impact. I’ve read people even take Prazosin with Trazodone but don’t personally have experience with both at once. It’s helped me fix my seriously fucked sleep cycles.

@Jin23 very heartfelt and good post. Thank you for sharing.

So, 3 of us with ptsd. We should start a club.

Ptsd means your brain is in a constant hypervigilante state and sleep is one of the first things that gets impacted as wake promoting neurons and networks get hyper sensitive and thus a general state of arousal becomes your normal, which you don't really sense as abnormal anymore.

Aas, stress, working out all become bigger stressors then for healthy people. Working out for us, due to endorphin release, is basically self medicating with opiates. But the issue is that working out taxes our CNS which is already in a semi burned out state.

TLDR; we are little sensitive princesses, and must pay more close attention to our body signals then other people. We also tend to have bigger reactions to the same levels of neurotransmitters/substances then others, as our neurotransmitter levels can be lower and also, bc of certain oversensitized key brain areas. There's morphological neurobiology changes too.

 

[Ateam2023]

I never mentioned cortisol specifically. The brain is much more complex then that. And peeing that many times during sleep just means you have low sleep pressure which is due to ptsd as you mentioned as your brain is in a constant state of vigilance.

my own thought on cortisol is that it could be spiking more during the night, i have recently been eating a 1/2 cup of oatmeal before bed so the lack of carbs isn't a reason to cause cortisol, but like you have said "figuring out your body" and adapting to its needs, but nailing this down is a futile attempt, lol but i will keep trying my best to "adapt and overcome" , I appreciate your thoughts on this brother as i do take them seriously, your definitely one of the few i actually listen to on this forum ,,

 

[Ateam2023]

Ptsd is just another 4 letter word ,,

 

[Elektrobot]

So, 3 of us with ptsd. We should start a club.

Ptsd means your brain is in a constant hypervigilante state and sleep is one of the first things that gets impacted as wake promoting neurons and networks get hyper sensitive and thus a general state of arousal becomes your normal, which you don't really sense as abnormal anymore.

Aas, stress, working out all become bigger stressors then for healthy people. Working out for us, due to endorphin release, is basically self medicating with opiates. But the issue is that working out taxes our CNS which is already in a semi burned out state.

TLDR; we are little sensitive princesses, and must pay more close attention to our body signals then other people. We also tend to have bigger reactions to the same levels of neurotransmitters/substances then others, as our neurotransmitter levels can be lower and also, bc of certain oversensitized key brain areas. There's morphological neurobiology changes too.

Sign me up.

I tried a therapy called Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) and it was helpful for me.

My insurance covered it. The requirements were to have tried at least 4 different anxiety / depression medications without success. Each insurance most likely has their own requirements. If it sounds interesting, maybe call your health insurance and ask what their coverage requirement for it are.

It is something you have to go daily for. So I found the closest clinic, called them and they screened me for insurance coverage, and I was able to start a few weeks after that.

 

[Zesty]

that stuff doesn't put me to sleep like trazadone does, ive tried everything and trazadone is the only affective drug that puts me to sleep, otherwise im tossing and turning trying to fall asleep and it just is a turmoil, i believe my main problem is the biological clock that has me awaking every 3 hrs , to piss , currently trying to cut off fluid intake earlier in the day to minimize nighttime urination,

I have the same problem. Im
Hoping to get trazadone or mirtazapine to help. I’ve gone years without sleeping through the night I’ve always tried to stay away from these but I think the benefits outweigh the cons

 

[AlexDavis43]

I have the same problem. Im
Hoping to get trazadone or mirtazapine to help. I’ve gone years without sleeping through the night I’ve always tried to stay away from these but I think the benefits outweigh the cons

In the meantime, look into CBTi

It's basic sleep hygiene but a lot of stuff people routinely ignore

Eg, limit screen time before bed, lower the temperature a few degrees at bedtime, establish a night time routine, stress reduction, etc