Loving my first go at tesamorelin

[Ghoul]

For blood sugar control, would metformin or reta be better?

Also what are your thoughts on adding ipamorelin alongside tesa?

Any GLP will be better than Metformin. You don't need to worry about glucose with 2mg Tesa daily. It's not going to have any significant impact. However, Tirz and Reta also significantly reduce visceral fat by enhancing lipolysis, so would pair very well with Tesa.

Ipa was mixed in to stretch Tesa when it was still very expensive. It's now under $2.50/day 2mg so cost shouldn't be an issue now.

( FYI while most studies have been done on HIV patients, aligned with the FDA approved treatment, similar and higher (20%+), amounts of VAT reduction have been demonstrated in healthy adults. )

"Tesamorelin demonstrates remarkable efficacy in fat metabolism, reducing visceral adipose tissue by 8-15% over 26-52 weeks in HIV-positive individuals. This effect is particularly notable in patients on integrase inhibitor regimens, where placebo groups experienced VAT increases while tesamorelin groups saw reductions14.

Beyond fat quantity reduction, tesamorelin enhances fat quality, evidenced by increased density on CT scans (+6.2 HU for VAT and +4.0 HU for subcutaneous fat) and corresponding improvements in adiponectin levels and lipid profiles. Tesamorelin also significantly reduces hepatic fat (-4.9%), offering a dual approach to addressing both visceral and liver fat accumulation15.

These benefits persist independent of baseline characteristics and changes in fat area, suggesting tesamorelin fundamentally improves adipose tissue quality and metabolic function—making it particularly valuable for addressing lipodystrophy and central adiposity.

In contrast, Ipamorelin paradoxically increases body weight and adiposity despite elevating GH levels. Studies in both GH-deficient and GH-intact mice show Ipamorelin increases fat pad weights relative to body weight16, while young female rats displayed significant weight gain with chronic treatment17."

Not a clinical study, but this reflects the vast amounts of Tesa data, in an easy to read format:

Tesamorelin vs. Ipamorelin: Comparison and Differences

Compare differences between tesamorelin and ipamorelin peptides for growth hormone release, body composition, and fat metabolism.

www.limitlesslifenootropics.com

IMO it's Tesa or GH, depending on your goals and priorities. Everything else is half assed "in between" these two.

 

[Proud Pangolin]

For blood sugar control, would metformin or reta be better?

Also what are your thoughts on adding ipamorelin alongside tesa?

I dont think insulin sensitivity will be a problem with GHRH's or GHRP's. At least in studys no effect was found. And it doesnt really make sense as the reason why GH increases in. sensitivity is due to the "permanent" extremly elevated GH level (especially if you inject multiple times per day).

And before using the big guns like metformin or reta stick to Berberin, ALAMyo-Inositol + D-Chiro-Inositol, Reservazrol, Chromium

 

[benfrankparkway]

Any GLP will be better than Metformin. You don't need to worry about glucose with 2mg Tesa daily. It's not going to have any significant impact. However, Tirz and Reta also significantly reduce visceral fat by enhancing lipolysis, so would pair very well with Tesa.

Ipa was mixed in to stretch Tesa when it was still very expensive. It's now under $2.50/day 2mg so cost shouldn't be an issue now.

( FYI while most studies have been done on HIV patients, aligned with the FDA approved treatment, similar and higher (20%+), amounts of VAT reduction have been demonstrated in healthy adults. )

"Tesamorelin demonstrates remarkable efficacy in fat metabolism, reducing visceral adipose tissue by 8-15% over 26-52 weeks in HIV-positive individuals. This effect is particularly notable in patients on integrase inhibitor regimens, where placebo groups experienced VAT increases while tesamorelin groups saw reductions14.

Beyond fat quantity reduction, tesamorelin enhances fat quality, evidenced by increased density on CT scans (+6.2 HU for VAT and +4.0 HU for subcutaneous fat) and corresponding improvements in adiponectin levels and lipid profiles. Tesamorelin also significantly reduces hepatic fat (-4.9%), offering a dual approach to addressing both visceral and liver fat accumulation15.

These benefits persist independent of baseline characteristics and changes in fat area, suggesting tesamorelin fundamentally improves adipose tissue quality and metabolic function—making it particularly valuable for addressing lipodystrophy and central adiposity.

In contrast, Ipamorelin paradoxically increases body weight and adiposity despite elevating GH levels. Studies in both GH-deficient and GH-intact mice show Ipamorelin increases fat pad weights relative to body weight16, while young female rats displayed significant weight gain with chronic treatment17."

Not a clinical study, but this reflects the vast amounts of Tesa data, in an easy to read format:

Tesamorelin vs. Ipamorelin: Comparison and Differences

Compare differences between tesamorelin and ipamorelin peptides for growth hormone release, body composition, and fat metabolism.

www.limitlesslifenootropics.com

IMO it's Tesa or GH, depending on your goals and priorities. Everything else is half assed "in between" these two.

that's odd that ipamorelin increases fat in GH deficient. I read a lot of people take it for the synergy, but I may sideline the ipa and just run tesa solo

 

[benfrankparkway]

I dont think insulin sensitivity will be a problem with GHRH's or GHRP's. At least in studys no effect was found. And it doesnt really make sense as the reason why GH increases in. sensitivity is due to the "permanent" extremly elevated GH level (especially if you inject multiple times per day).

And before using the big guns like metformin or reta stick to Berberin, ALAMyo-Inositol + D-Chiro-Inositol, Reservazrol, Chromium

I have used multiple GDA's (berberine, ala) in the past with success. However, a once-a-week dosage or reta is not only more convenient it's also cheaper, that's why I was considering that as an option

 

[pewex]

Would reducing HGH from 10 IU daily to 5 IU plus 2 mg of tesamorelin provide better benefits than 10 IU of HGH alone?

Or would there even any benefit at all to adding 2 mg of tesamorelin on top of 10 IU of GH?


I'm really tempted to lower my HGH dose and start experimenting more with HGH secretagogues, but I think that using plain HGH might just outperform everything else.

Anyone have any theoretical suggestions on what could be combined with HGH for optimal results?

 

[Ghoul]

Would reducing HGH from 10 IU daily to 5 IU plus 2 mg of tesamorelin provide better benefits than 10 IU of HGH alone?

Or would there even any benefit at all to adding 2 mg of tesamorelin on top of 10 IU of GH?


I'm really tempted to lower my HGH dose and start experimenting more with HGH secretagogues, but I think that using plain HGH might just outperform everything else.

Anyone have any theoretical suggestions on what could be combined with HGH for optimal results?

No that won't work. 2mg Tesa amplifies endogenous GH pulses (and baseline GH) by 50-75%. So if your natural level is 100ug it's increased to 150ug-175ug.

At 2iu+ endogenous production is knocked out, so 50% more of 0 is still 0. 100mg of Tesa wouldn't do anything when there's no existing GH production.

 

[pewex]

No that won't work. 2mg Tesa amplifies endogenous GH pulses (and baseline GH) by 50-75%. So if your natural level is 100ug it's increased to 150ug-175ug.

At 2iu+ endogenous production is knocked out, so 50% more of 0 is still 0. 100mg of Tesa wouldn't do anything when there's no existing GH production.

Yeah, I figured it probably wouldn't have much of an effect, though maybe it could help with visceral fat?

That said, I’m curious: do you know of any theoretical compounds that might synergize well with 10 IU of HGH? I'm taking a week off after my competition and plan to run 10 IU of HGH. I'm looking into what might be worth adding in regards to peptides, research chems, etc... aside from GLP-1s, since I'll still be on Reta, just at a lower dose in comparison to prep.

This "off season" is going to be my big experiment phase, planning to try out a bunch of different compounds

 

[Ghoul]

Yeah, I figured it probably wouldn't have much of an effect, though maybe it could help with visceral fat?

That said, I’m curious: do you know of any theoretical compounds that might synergize well with 10 IU of HGH? I'm taking a week off after my competition and plan to run 10 IU of HGH. I'm looking into what might be worth adding in regards to peptides, research chems, etc... aside from GLP-1s, since I'll still be on Reta, just at a lower dose in comparison to prep.

This "off season" is going to be my big experiment phase, planning to try out a bunch of different compounds

The single most potent fat loss add on to your Reta / gh stack would be Clen (with cardio ofc to burn off the massive fatty acid release). I'm not going to bother with all the cautions, they're well documented.

After that in a distant second would be ephedrine and/or caffeine.

 

[Proud Pangolin]

that's odd that ipamorelin increases fat in GH deficient. I read a lot of people take it for the synergy, but I may sideline the ipa and just run tesa solo

I would be carefull with assuming Ipamorelin will increase fat. Simply because:

1. first of all it makes no sense. Ipamorelin will result in a higher and longer GH pulse/peak. More GH was never found to be related to fat increase but multiple times with fat loss

2. There is a ton of experiences that state exactly the opposite. Its like one of the main reasons why people take ipa

3. Its a study on femal rodents. Thats a very specific samplepopulation. Doesnt mean anything.
On top of this its one study. Im not going to start with statistics and things like alpha-error etc.

=> So i wouldnt really pay much attention to this study tbh

 

[benfrankparkway]

I would be carefull with assuming Ipamorelin will increase fat. Simply because:

1. first of all it makes no sense. Ipamorelin will result in a higher and longer GH pulse/peak. More GH was never found to be related to fat increase but multiple times with fat loss

2. There is a ton of experiences that state exactly the opposite. Its like one of the main reasons why people take ipa

3. Its a study on femal rodents. Thats a very specific samplepopulation. Doesnt mean anything.
On top of this its one study. Im not going to start with statistics and things like alpha-error etc.

=> So i wouldnt really pay much attention to this study tbh

Noted. Have you personally used Ipamorelin? Ipamorelin does peak my interest and I have been reading up on it more especially its synergy with Tesamorelin. However, I would just simply run Tesa by itself just because it's my first time and want to see how it works on its own. If results are good, I would consider adding Ipamorelin to it.

 

[Proud Pangolin]

I have used multiple GDA's (berberine, ala) in the past with success. However, a once-a-week dosage or reta is not only more convenient it's also cheaper, that's why I was considering that as an option

I agree absolutely.
However my point was basiacally: If my head hurts i cpuld take some aspirin. Or i could take a very small amount of an opiode which would be more effective and cheaper. True, but the opiode and in this case reta/met also pose a lot more "risks".

I woukd always be carefull with everything that works on so many pathways. Just e considering affected brain areas

 

[Proud Pangolin]

Noted. Have you personally used Ipamorelin? Ipamorelin does peak my interest and I have been reading up on it more especially its synergy with Tesamorelin. However, I would just simply run Tesa by itself just because it's my first time and want to see how it works on its own. If results are good, I would consider adding Ipamorelin to it.

I havent used Ipamorelin however i habe used a other GHRP: GHRP-2 in combination with the GHRH CJC-1295 NO dac. Im thinking about switching tge CJC with Tesa and see if i will get better results

 

[benfrankparkway]

I agree absolutely.
However my point was basiacally: If my head hurts i cpuld take some aspirin. Or i could take a very small amount of an opiode which would be more effective and cheaper. True, but the opiode and in this case reta/met also pose a lot more "risks".

I woukd always be carefull with everything that works on so many pathways. Just e considering affected brain areas

with all the great talk about GLP's I wasnt considering reta a "risk" compound. I know its not FDA approved like Tirz, but was still considering it "safe".

 

[benfrankparkway]

I havent used Ipamorelin however i habe used a other GHRP: GHRP-2 in combination with the GHRH CJC-1295 NO dac. Im thinking about switching tge CJC with Tesa and see if i will get better results

I get it, with all that is available to use its hard to isolate and take one solo compound and wait 6 months to see if works. I am not on any AAS, but most people here are and there is usually multiple compounds that are being taken at one time. Which tends me to want to try Tesa/Ipa for six months instead of solo Tesa run

 

[Ghoul]

I would be carefull with assuming Ipamorelin will increase fat. Simply because:

1. first of all it makes no sense. Ipamorelin will result in a higher and longer GH pulse/peak. More GH was never found to be related to fat increase but multiple times with fat loss

2. There is a ton of experiences that state exactly the opposite. Its like one of the main reasons why people take ipa

3. Its a study on femal rodents. Thats a very specific samplepopulation. Doesnt mean anything.
On top of this its one study. Im not going to start with statistics and things like alpha-error etc.

=> So i wouldnt really pay much attention to this study tbh

The weight gain was observed with Ipamorelin in isolation and does make sense, even though it's counterintuitive at first.

The likely problem with Ipamorelin is that while it boosts GH pulse levels, they're much shorter than Tesa. 20-30 mins vs 2-3 hours. This leads to lower IGF increases, and IGF helps overcome GH induced insulin resistance allowing muscles to burn off the free fatty acids liberated by GH. Higher insulin resistance from any cause tends to increase fat storage.

Maybe this can be overcome with a GLP.

It probably works in conjunction with Tesa since Tesa provides a reliable IGF boost to burn FFAs. I just wouldn't go below the known effective 2mg dose when adding Ipa.

 

[benfrankparkway]

The weight gain was observed with Ipamorelin in isolation and does make sense, even though it's counterintuitive at first.

The likely problem with Ipamorelin is that while it boosts GH pulse levels, they're much shorter than Tesa. 20-30 mins vs 2-3 hours. This leads to lower IGF increases, and IGF helps overcome GH induced insulin resistance allowing muscles to burn off the free fatty acids liberated by GH.

Maybe this can be overcome with a GLP.

It probably works in conjunction with Tesa since Tesa provides a reliable IGF boost to burn FFAs. I just wouldn't go below the known effective 2mg dose when adding Ipa.

View attachment 336631

2mg of IPA, i'm still researching but mostly ancedotal people have been taking 500mcg.

 

[Ateam2023]

I get it, with all that is available to use its hard to isolate and take one solo compound and wait 6 months to see if works. I am not on any AAS, but most people here are and there is usually multiple compounds that are being taken at one time. Which tends me to want to try Tesa/Ipa for six months instead of solo Tesa run

i was considering adding tesa at night in addition to my hgh in the morning, tesa for sleep support possibly?

 

[Ghoul]

2mg of IPA, i'm still researching but mostly ancedotal people have been taking 500mcg.

I meant Tesa 2mg. Going above 2mg Tesa appears to be useless. The pharmacokinetic studies show pretty clearly 2mg provides compete GHRH receptor saturation. Ipa appears
to max out around 300 or so, so 500 would cover it for sure.

 

[Photon]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

My understanding is that injecting HGH suppresses natural production. Tesa improves on the natural production, if production is suppressed due to exogenous GH, then there is no point in injecting Tesa while using GH.

TLR, cant have cake and eat it too.

 

[Ghoul]

i was considering adding tesa at night in addition to my hgh in the morning, tesa for sleep support possibly?

Anything beyond 2iu rHGH shuts down endogenous GH pulses, and Tesa only amplifies what's being naturally produced.

Elevated IGF from rHGH causes somatostatin to be released, which binds to and shuts down somatotrophs, the GH producing cells in the pituitary, so there's nothing to amplify. Tesa (Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone) is sending a signal to increase GH, but the receivers are shut off.