SubQ vs IM injection

[sushak]

It gets old fast, once you get one lump that just won't go away and you start to suspect it's infected or something, all for the marginal benefit, you'll go back to Im.

 

[dinfar1337]

It gets old fast, once you get one lump that just won't go away and you start to suspect it's infected or something, all for the marginal benefit, you'll go back to Im.

i only do it on cruise.

just 250mg of test a week.

1ml weekly injection once with test c. to get deep scar tissuing to heal. i prefer im aswell even tho i could subq with my cycle volume

 

[Tdeck81]

It gets old fast, once you get one lump that just won't go away and you start to suspect it's infected or something, all for the marginal benefit, you'll go back to Im.

Is there an increased risk of infection or general complication with SubQ? Or is the fluid build up just more noticeable, closer to the surface?

 

[wldb33rz]

Is there an increased risk of infection or general complication with SubQ? Or is the fluid build up just more noticeable, closer to the surface?

The risk is lower subq. Not zero, but much lower than triggering a reaction in muscle tissue. The buildup is just more noticable because it's closer to the surface. If you notice it immediately post injection, you can gently massage it to help dispurse it. Sometimes lumps are just a technique issue; I got them a lot when I first started with med injections but after I learned it was technique based, it's rare now. I've yet to run into an issue with the trt injections in the glute area subq.

 

[Tdeck81]

The risk is lower subq. Not zero, but much lower than triggering a reaction in muscle tissue. The buildup is just more noticable because it's closer to the surface. If you notice it immediately post injection, you can gently massage it to help dispurse it. Sometimes lumps are just a technique issue; I got them a lot when I first started with med injections but after I learned it was technique based, it's rare now. I've yet to run into an issue with the trt injections in the glute area subq.

Thanks. Stomach was my go to because I’ve done insulin injections for a parent and it’s easier to see what I’m doing. Next time I’ll try the glute

 

[wldb33rz]

Thanks. Stomach was my go to because I’ve done insulin injections for a parent and it’s easier to see what I’m doing. Next time I’ll try the glute

No issues with stomach, I only avoid that because of the water based injections I do and dont want to mix the oil depots and water. Not 100% if that is an actual thing, just a preference I have.

 

[PrizonMike]

I'm very interested to hear what others have experienced on this also. I do believe "Vigorous Steve" did a recent video about injecting a full cycle all Subcutaneous (much higher weekly volumes than 1/4 ml). he did speak about lumps, etc. but for small volumes I do think it could work. It may depend on the carrier oil. Only way to know is to try.

As an aside, if it does work, it will make microdosing (things like tren 5 - 10 mg daily) a lot easier.

Been microdosing test e 300/wk sub q daily. I will never go back to anything else. Now once I up the compounds and dosages I’ll switch to IM. But trt protocol, I’ll always go subq daily.

 

[Stubb]

It gets old fast, once you get one lump that just won't go away and you start to suspect it's infected or something, all for the marginal benefit, you'll go back to Im.

That was my experience. Many lumps that lasted weeks when I was doing subq test in the abdomen area. Just at trt levels too.

Also, tren a really fucking hurt when I tried it subq so I wouldn't recommend anyone try that.

 

[Eddie.]

Thank you for sharing your experience. Silly question - why not abdomen fat?

I did my first injection via the stomach, similar to an insulin injection. Why do you prefer glutes and hips?

Because I've heard quite a few anecdotal reports about lumps and if in case one happens to me I'd like to avoid being in my abs like a sitting lipoma. Also, most of the guys mentioning lumps they were pinning belly area. Perhaps there are more blood vessels or veins or something that makes the area more prone to bad shots.

I've had 3 bad shots with peptides in my belly, nicked vein with just a drop of blood but it turned blue (bruised) and it got sometime to leave. I guess if it was oil it might have stuck for longer. That's all just based in my so far experience.

Is there an increased risk of infection or general complication with SubQ? Or is the fluid build up just more noticeable, closer to the surface?

No, actually the opposite. If you pin something nasty or gou get an infection while subc, all it takes to clear it's just the skin and the fat. Blood circulation is lesser that the muscles. Infection in the muscle means they'll have to dig deeper to reach your muscle and disinfect the area, also infection goes to your bloodstream faster.

Imagine stepping on a rusty nail, which is gonna do the most damage, the one with 1/4 of an inch penetration or the 3/4? When i buy from a new source or a new carrier oil/compound etc i always pin some subc first to see how i react. If i get some sort of inflammation i doubt I'll be pushing it deep into the muscle.

 

[Tdeck81]

Because I've heard quite a few anecdotal reports about lumps and if in case one happens to me I'd like to avoid being in my abs like a sitting lipoma. Also, most of the guys mentioning lumps they were pinning belly area. Perhaps there are more blood vessels or veins or something that makes the area more prone to bad shots.

I've had 3 bad shots with peptides in my belly, nicked vein with just a drop of blood but it turned blue (bruised) and it got sometime to leave. I guess if it was oil it might have stuck for longer. That's all just based in my so far experience.



No, actually the opposite. If you pin something nasty or gou get an infection while subc, all it takes to clear it's just the skin and the fat. Blood circulation is lesser that the muscles. Infection in the muscle means they'll have to dig deeper to reach your muscle and disinfect the area, also infection goes to your bloodstream faster.

Imagine stepping on a rusty nail, which is gonna do the most damage, the one with 1/4 of an inch penetration or the 3/4? When i buy from a new source or a new carrier oil/compound etc i always pin some subc first to see how i react. If i get some sort of inflammation i doubt I'll be pushing it deep into the muscle.

I got you, makes sense. Even if it’s a cosmetic problem it would be hidden a little better. Thank you for clarifying that for us.

I thought I had read that SubQ was generally safer than IM injections regarding infection. You’re absolutely right, if there is an issue I would rather it be more visible to catch it early and less severe.

 

[R005Ter]

My personal experience, I tried subQ for a while on trt doses. I never have any issues with any oils IM, but SubQ very much irritated my skin. Left lumps, skin would get red and irritated, back to IM and no issues. For me personally I will never do any oils SubQ and keep that for anything with BAC water.

 

[wldb33rz]

I'll keep you posted, I expect blood results either today or tomorrow based on past experiences with this lab.

This lab took forever to get back the results. Over a week now.

But 6 week tests

Total T: 1490
Free T: 375.5
E2: 110
SHBG: 24

I'll note, that about a week prior to the labs I started noticing some minor e2 sides such as water retention and some brain fog/overthinking things. I started the AI (anastrozole) as soon as the blood was drawn, only taking .5mg/week to start right now to see where this gets me.

This was a daily subq dose of 12.5units or 25mg/day being 175mg/week. I also kind of hyper responded with the hematocrit rising from 45.6 to 52.4.

Biggest benefit here is the peaks and valleys are very shallow here, so e2 spikes and heavy DHT conversion is less likely.

Edit: Ordered labs through AlgoRX through Quest. However, the lab never posted the results, I had to wait for AlgoRX to post results. I think paying extra for Labcorp would make this a bit faster; Labcorp has only ever taken 2-3 days for me. This was 10 days from draw. As much as I feel amazing, I did lower my dose down to 21mg/day or 10.5 units to drop things down into 1200-1300 range. At least now I know how I respond.

 

[RockyP]

This lab took forever to get back the results. Over a week now.

But 6 week tests

Total T: 1490
Free T: 375.5
E2: 110
SHBG: 24

I'll note, that about a week prior to the labs I started noticing some minor e2 sides such as water retention and some brain fog/overthinking things. I started the AI (anastrozole) as soon as the blood was drawn, only taking .5mg/week to start right now to see where this gets me.

This was a daily subq dose of 12.5units or 25mg/day being 175mg/week. I also kind of hyper responded with the hematocrit rising from 45.6 to 52.4.

Biggest benefit here is the peaks and valleys are very shallow here, so e2 spikes and heavy DHT conversion is less likely.

Those labs look very similar to mine on 300 test with no AI (total T was 2300, Free T 450, E2 100). Adex 1.5 weekly got my E2 to 35 but I'm in the process of lowering the test and dropping the AI since my HDL shit the bed on that much Adex.

 

[Tdeck81]

Total T: 1490
Free T: 375.5
E2: 110
SHBG: 24

Ok. So I went back to your introduction and I think you were around 580 test and 40 e2. Which is like 14.5 to 1 ratio. Now it looks like the ratio dropped a bit. I read usually 6-8 weeks everything should be leveled out and a good indicator of what to expect.

The only reason I mention ratio is I read a good ratio to shoot for is 20:1. Beats the hell out of me how critical this is but it’s the most concrete specification I can find. Our starting test is similar….mine was like 520 but my e2 was just under 20.

I picked up Test C 250 so I was planning to run 250 a week but maybe I’ll try around 200? My goal was to get around 1500-2000, looks like you got pretty close to that range @ 175 a week.

I appreciate you sharing the info with.

 

[Tdeck81]

I'm in the process of lowering the test and dropping the AI since my HDL shit the bed on that much Adex.

@wldb33rz This was my next question. Do you plan on reducing the test to get in range or running the ai long term?

 

[RockyP]

@wldb33rz This was my next question. Do you plan on reducing the test to get in range or running the ai long term?

Lowering test to 200 and Adex to 0.5 weekly. Do not want to stay on it long term. Will re-check E2 in a few weeks and then likely do a test / primo mix. Something like 225 test / 150 primo. I suppose I could just skip the first step and hop on Test / primo right now.

 

[Tdeck81]

Lowering test to 200 and Adex to 0.5 weekly. Do not want to stay on it long term. Will re-check E2 in a few weeks and then likely do a test / primo mix. Something like 225 test / 150 primo. I suppose I could just skip the first step and hop on Test / primo right now.

Will this basically be you cruise dose once dialed in or are you still figuring everything out?

 

[Tdeck81]

Ordered labs through AlgoRX through Quest. However, the lab never posted the results, I had to wait for AlgoRX to post results. I think paying extra for Labcorp would make this a bit faster; Labcorp has only ever taken 2-3 days for me.

This is good to know. I’m in NJ and those are my two options. Quest is a little cheaper but takes longer to get results. Labcorp usually gets my results in 24 hrs

 

[RockyP]

Will this basically be you cruise dose once dialed in or are you still figuring everything out?

assuming the primo doesn't destroy my lipids I will cruise on that for a while then add back the NPP, take that through the winter, stop the NPP for a while, then MAYBE do some low dose tren 50 - 70 mg weekly in spring

 

[Tdeck81]

I will cruise on that for a while then add back the NPP, take that through the winter, stop the NPP for a while,

This is my plan with low dose deca, Still a ways off for me. Can I ask why hop off? Some people have said not to run the 19s even at low dose long term and others say it’s typically safe. Just wondering your thoughts