Optimal Testosterone Level

[Tdeck81]

I’ve been searching online and all I can find are the generic charts for average test levels broken down by age range. What I’ve been trying to find is an ideal testosterone level for anabolism.

I plan allowing my bloodwork to guide my decisions in setting up a low dose cruise. But operating in a “vacuum”, no side effects/health concerns, considering only testosterone, is there a definitive blood level that is ideal?

I’ve seen chatter referencing a point in which there are diminishing muscle gains per ng/dl. I understand it may vary person to person but is there a generally accepted “optimal” number, for instance 1500 ng/dl? Or dose this level change overtime with the use of increasing dosages?

 

[readalot]

I’ve been searching online and all I can find are the generic charts for average test levels broken down by age range. What I’ve been trying to find is an ideal testosterone level for anabolism.

I plan allowing my bloodwork to guide my decisions in setting up a low dose cruise. But operating in a “vacuum”, no side effects/health concerns, considering only testosterone, is there a definitive blood level that is ideal?

I’ve seen chatter referencing a point in which there are diminishing muscle gains per ng/dl. I understand it may vary person to person but is there a generally accepted “optimal” number, for instance 1500 ng/dl? Or dose this level change overtime with the use of increasing dosages?

R

Post in thread 'Is William Llewellyn book with it?'

Jan 18, 2024

True, though while I regard Duchaine's USH II as required reading for everyone, it contains a ton of outdated info with respect to available compounds. A lot of it is opinion, also.

Holding up pretty well over 30 years later (1989)...

• readalot

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[Tdeck81]

@readalot

Good old trial and error. I’m in no rush and planned on slowly titrating up. So I guess just enjoy the journey. Thanks

 

[readalot]

@readalot

Good old trial and error. I’m in no rush and planned on slowly titrating up. So I guess just enjoy the journey. Thanks

In terms of the optimization, you have two competing curves in the simple model. An anabolism curve and a negative side effects curve. These are individual and only you can select your appetite for risk. Not sure if helpful but I can ramble on if you want.

 

[readalot]

The other bitch is some of these sides take years to manifest. But unless you are a mutant it would be best to assume you will pay at some point in order to play.

 

[Tdeck81]

I absolutely understand the bill will come due at some point. I’ve seen enough anecdotal reports of guys seemingly not tolerating doses or compounds overnight. Regardless, it’s safe to assume there will be some form of negative health consequence, to what extent?-

My goal is finding a reasonable base dose of test to cruise on indefinitely and eventually adding a low dose of deca to help with lingering joint pain. With nothing concrete as a basis, I was speculating 250 mg test/100 mg deca weekly.

I figure as my goals change I can play with some different amounts or sprinkle in other compounds. Ultimately I know bloodwork will determine my limits but my obsessive nature leads me to question and requestion, lol

 

[readalot]

I absolutely understand the bill will come due at some point. I’ve seen enough anecdotal reports of guys seemingly not tolerating doses or compounds overnight. Regardless, it’s safe to assume there will be some form of negative health consequence, to what extent?-

My goal is finding a reasonable base dose of test to cruise on indefinitely and eventually adding a low dose of deca to help with lingering joint pain. With nothing concrete as a basis, I was speculating 250 mg test/100 mg deca weekly.

I figure as my goals change I can play with some different amounts or sprinkle in other compounds. Ultimately I know bloodwork will determine my limits but my obsessive nature leads me to question and requestion, lol

Learn from me, if not by my precepts, at least by my example, how dangerous is the acquirement of knowledge and how much happier that man is who believes his native town to be the world, than he who aspires to become greater than his nature will allo

Learn from me, if not by my precepts, at least by my example, how dangerous is the acquirement of knowledge and how much happier that man is who believes his native town to be the world, than he who aspires to become greater than his nature will allow. - Mary Shelley

www.allgreatquotes.com

Case in point 8 years later after starting gear late and having all else dialed in...

Now a hairy MFer than can hardly piss. Do all the teenage boys adore me? Sure. Compliments? Yep. Was it worth it?

Only you can decide.

 

[lukiss96]

Pretty much @readalot answered your questions. I'll just add some points for keeping the conversation going.

Optimal Testosterone can only be applied to TRT really. Anything more is not exactly optimal. I'd say 600-1000ng/dl is the most optimal range, surely some might require a bit more or less, but possibly due to some problems within their protocol rather than the numbers itself. Outliers aside usually 100-150mg gets most people in that "optimal" state.

As for enhancement side of things, sky is the limit perhaps. Again as noted and you correctly answered it yourself as trial and error. For myself I believe 1500-2000ng/dl is where it shines the most (overall) and about 1000ng/dl for trt on a high end.

 

[readalot]

Ultimately I know bloodwork will determine my limits

Bloodwork, regular heart surveillance (ekg, echo). The prostate one is nonlinear and can f you up quickly after years of being "fine" with wrong compound choice, lol.

Not even getting into mental effects and retardation from gear. Under appreciated or discussed.

If you make your $$ with your brain, be careful.

 

[Tdeck81]

Now a hairy MFer than can hardly piss. Do all the teenage boys adore me? Sure. Compliments? Yep. Was it worth it?
[/QUOTE]

The way I rationalize it is, I’m taking as much precaution to mitigate the risks as possible. I have modest goals for myself but also fully understand goals can change. I’m a firm believer in moderation and there are worse “vices”

 

[readalot]

moderation

Seriously though, that should serve you well. Beware of scope creep.

 

[Tdeck81]

As for enhancement side of things, sky is the limit perhaps. Again as noted and you correctly answered it yourself as trial and error. For myself I believe 1500-2000ng/dl is where it shines the most (overall) and about 1000ng/dl for trt on a high end.
[/QUOTE]

Without any real basis 1500-2000 was the neighborhood I was thinking. It seems to be a modest amount but enough to make it worth the endeavor

 

[readalot]

Related crao few will read.

R

Thread 'Considering a first cycle....all your confusion cleared up here.'

Dec 28, 2023

So you want to dabble with AAS for body dysmorphia or cosmetic reasons?

Step 1. Understand the basic workings of hpt(g)a - hypothalamic pituitary testicular (aka gonadal) axis. Control theory. Where does testosterone exhibit negative feedback? H or P? How about estradiol?

Step 2. Understand PCT. What is it? Is it necessary? When is it necessary?

Step 3. Understand basics of pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics for the drugs you are considering

Step 4. What's your plan? Inject some stuff and come back to the forums in 10 to 12 weeks and ask what to do next? Short, medium...

• readalot

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All roads lead to blast/cruise or blast/"TRT" long term.

A cycle? Don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Tdeck81]

@readalot

I came across and read this thread before. I spent a lot of time reading through threads on here before I even decided to pull the trigger. You post a lot of good points that I assume most newbie’s don’t consider. I think it’s an excellent checklist to start planning.

My initial plan was to run a couple cycles but after learning a bit here, a slower more long term progression is my course.

 

[Wizbang]

Someone told me this advice: Make sure you're watching the entire landscape, its easy to get focused on a few details but lose sight of other important things, especially as far as side effect mitigation, make sure you have things on hand, not scrambling last minute to try to get something ASAP because you were not prepared.

 

[HeatherSwanson]

I absolutely understand the bill will come due at some point. I’ve seen enough anecdotal reports of guys seemingly not tolerating doses or compounds overnight. Regardless, it’s safe to assume there will be some form of negative health consequence, to what extent?-

My goal is finding a reasonable base dose of test to cruise on indefinitely and eventually adding a low dose of deca to help with lingering joint pain. With nothing concrete as a basis, I was speculating 250 mg test/100 mg deca weekly.

I figure as my goals change I can play with some different amounts or sprinkle in other compounds. Ultimately I know bloodwork will determine my limits but my obsessive nature leads me to question and requestion, lol

DECA stops my dick working at any dose and makes my hair fall out.

 

[Tdeck81]

Someone told me this advice: Make sure you're watching the entire landscape, its easy to get focused on a few details but lose sight of other important things, especially as far as side effect mitigation, make sure you have things on hand, not scrambling last minute to try to get something ASAP because you were not prepared.

When I ordered the test and deca, I also picked up aromasin and clomid. I figure I could stop the whole process if something major happens or control estrogen if need be. I didn't pick up blood pressure meds and other ancillaries because I have no idea what to expect.

Oh..I also forgot I have a blood pressure cuff here too. I want to give it a quick check every morning just to see what's happening.

 

[Tdeck81]

DECA stops my dick working at any dose and makes my hair fall out.

I've seen a lot of people have issues with it. That's why I plan on doing the test only dose for 3-6 months and getting labs before incorporating anything else. I don't want to add too much, too soon, and have no idea what's causing issues.

 

[Tdeck81]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZ-AAc2GJY


I know some of you guys aren’t into this guy, but the rationale sounds good. Skip out to like the 7 minute mark for the dosing advice. Just something I saw and figured a could pass it along. Make of it what you will.

 

[ThinBulk]

More gear will give you more gains. More gear will also give you more side effects at a much faster rate.

You need to rationalize your goals. 350mg of test and deca is a cycle, not a starting cruise dose. You should cruise lower than that, and not stay on deca 24/7.