Blood Pressure

[Ghoul]

What dose do you take brother?

I just had a big adrenaline dump that I attributed to TNE but it’s also true that I increased the GH dose last night by a little. Not sure if that could have impacted it. Only increased by 0.2iu so probably not.

Had me feeling like I was hooked up to an adrenaline drip. Heart rate 160 or something for a period. My SSRI I just started helped me just ride it out though without having a panic attack or anything which was nice

Just took a propranolol to give my body a rest after that.

Since AIs mistake started this conversation, I'll allow it to redeem itself by its correct (checked by me lol) characterization of the difference between propranolol and ciln. Essentially Ciln spares "normal" function and only dampens bursts of adrenaline:

Beta-blockers (e.g., propranolol):

• Downregulate adrenergic signaling at receptors, so normal sympathetic tone is blunted even at rest.

• Can reduce heart rate and muscle contractility during normal activities.

Cilnidipine (N-type block):

• Directly inhibits excessive sympathetic nerve firing, especially during stress or high sympathetic drive.

• Spare normal baseline adrenergic function more than beta-blockers, so basic adrenergic tone is less suppressed.

In short: propranolol dampens all adrenergic signaling, while cilnidipine selectively tampers down pathological/excessive sympathetic activation.

 

[Sera]

Since AIs mistake started this conversation, I'll allow it to redeem itself by its correct (checked by me lol) characterization of the difference between propranolol and ciln. Essentially Ciln spares "normal" function and only dampens bursts of adrenaline:

Beta-blockers (e.g., propranolol):

• Downregulate adrenergic signaling at receptors, so normal sympathetic tone is blunted even at rest.

• Can reduce heart rate and muscle contractility during normal activities.

Cilnidipine (N-type block):

• Directly inhibits excessive sympathetic nerve firing, especially during stress or high sympathetic drive.

• Spare normal baseline adrenergic function more than beta-blockers, so basic adrenergic tone is less suppressed.

In short: propranolol dampens all adrenergic signaling, while cilnidipine selectively tampers down pathological/excessive sympathetic activation.

I do have some cilnipidine (due to your recommendation of it as a bp med, probably in this thread actually) but haven’t experimented with it too much yet.

I’m not sure how useful it is situationally if I don’t need sustained reduction throughout the day, whereas propranolol is relatively short acting.

 

[Ghoul]

I do have some cilnipidine (due to your recommendation of it as a bp med, probably in this thread actually) but haven’t experimented with it too much yet.

I’m not sure how useful it is situationally if I don’t need sustained reduction throughout the day, whereas propranolol is relatively short acting.

I see the N-channel blocking as a bonus if you need a BP med anyway, rather than a primary reason for using it (unless you have reynaud's syndrome).

That said, there is no suppression occurring if there's no stress, so there's no "cost" in the form of lower performance. It sits there, only springing into action as needed.

I like propranolol, but it does slow me down regardless of whether I need the calming effect or not.

 

[explodingHeart]

What dose do you take brother?

I just had a big adrenaline dump that I attributed to TNE but it’s also true that I increased the GH dose last night by a little. Not sure if that could have impacted it. Only increased by 0.2iu so probably not.

Had me feeling like I was hooked up to an adrenaline drip. Heart rate 160 or something for a period. My SSRI I just started helped me just ride it out though without having a panic attack or anything which was nice

Just took a propranolol to give my body a rest after that.

4iu = barely tolerable. Shoots up my bp by about 10 points and rhr by 12.

Took 8iu 3 days in a row and I'm basically wrecked, even on 10mg ciln. Takes me 3 days off competently to drop a crapload of water and my RHR to come down.

 

[rexy]

4iu = barely tolerable. Shoots up my bp by about 10 points and rhr by 12.

Took 8iu 3 days in a row and I'm basically wrecked, even on 10mg ciln. Takes me 3 days off competently to drop a crapload of water and my RHR to come down.

Ahh, a brother in arms. Seems we are wired similarly because I get the same response to HGH. RHR spikes up to approx. 20bpm regardless of dose.

I have, up until now, used ivabradine to blunt it but ran into other problems doing that. I'm now at the point where once my last few kits are done, I am considering simply no longer using it.

At some point the trade-off has to be weighed against long-term sustainability for anabolic purposes. I'm not using it for skin, nails or hair benefit. And I certainly wouldn't put up with this constant HR seesaw were it not for anabolism.

I know, for example, that if I just wanted to include 200-300mg Tren, I would not get a greater HR response than I do to Test alone, and basic 5mg nebivolol keeps everything in check. Add HGH to anything, RHR goes up 20bpm. Well, regardless of 'toxicity' side, I think it's safe to say which is more anabolic out of those options. And I think I'm personally just about done with dancing with HGH, which has been months of headaches trying to line up ancilliaries I've never before needed and still haven't got dialled in after 6m.

 

[Sera]

4iu = barely tolerable. Shoots up my bp by about 10 points and rhr by 12.

Took 8iu 3 days in a row and I'm basically wrecked, even on 10mg ciln. Takes me 3 days off competently to drop a crapload of water and my RHR to come down.

Do you take GH every day and at what dose?

 

[Sera]

Ahh, a brother in arms. Seems we are wired similarly because I get the same response to HGH. RHR spikes up to approx. 20bpm regardless of dose.

I have, up until now, used ivabradine to blunt it but ran into other problems doing that. I'm now at the point where once my last few kits are done, I am considering simply no longer using it.

At some point the trade-off has to be weighed against long-term sustainability for anabolic purposes. I'm not using it for skin, nails or hair benefit. And I certainly wouldn't put up with this constant HR seesaw were it not for anabolism.

I know, for example, that if I just wanted to include 200-300mg Tren, I would not get a greater HR response than I do to Test alone, and basic 5mg nebivolol keeps everything in check. Add HGH to anything, RHR goes up 20bpm. Well, regardless of 'toxicity' side, I think it's safe to say which is more anabolic out of those options. And I think I'm personally just about done with dancing with HGH, which has been months of headaches trying to line up ancilliaries I've never before needed.

It might be worth just running a replacement dose of say 2iu to keep IGF-1 levels upper end of the reference range?

 

[rexy]

It might be worth just running a replacement dose of say 2iu to keep IGF-1 levels upper end of the reference range?

Over the course of 6m, there isn't much I haven't tried. I've attempted pretty much everything to make it work.

 

[Sera]

Over the course of 6m, there isn't much I haven't tried. I've attempted pretty much everything to make it work.

So even 1iu gives unacceptable sides?

 

[rexy]

So even 1iu gives unacceptable sides?

Any exogenous dose causes unacceptable HR increases - yes. Especially when I can omit it and allow for more room for AAS increases. Testosterone and other AAS will raise IGF enough to cover that type of dose anyway.

And splitting doesn't help either. I don't have issues with other sides, it's the cardiac ones.

 

[Sera]

Any exogenous dose causes unacceptable HR increases - yes. Especially when I can omit it and allow for more room for AAS increases. And splitting doesn't help either. I don't have issues with other sides, it's the cardiac ones.

That sucks man. I had the rapid heart rate from 2iu but after dropping to 1iu and slowly increasing I no longer have an issue at 1.6iu.

Reta at 2mg also increased my heart rate a lot and was very unpleasant for a few days..

 

[explodingHeart]

Especially when I can omit it and allow for more room for AAS increases.

That's an amazing point. I could have been running 2g of test and still not even come close to the BP/RHR increase from low dose GH.

 

[sionnach]

Tadalafil disrupts sleep

Lolwut

 

[BamaCrazy]

Lolwut

It keeps Russell the One-Eyed Muscle awake.

 

[explodingHeart]

It keeps Russell the One-Eyed Muscle awake.

Did you try sglt2 inhibitors for blasting gear or just general kidney protection?

Any thoughts on that? Does an average guy doing a 500mg to 1g of test cycle + gh have any benefit to gain from using it?

 

[BamaCrazy]

Did you try sglt2 inhibitors for blasting gear or just general kidney protection?

Any thoughts on that? Does an average guy doing a 500mg to 1g of test cycle + gh have any benefit to gain from using it?

I’ve been taking Jardiance. I’m taking it for its heart benefits which all of us on gear could benefit from. They are still unsure exactly how it helps reduce the risk of heart failure, but past studies indicate that it’s helping. There are ongoing studies looking at this benefit.

“It improves the hearts ability to pump blood throughout the body, reducing inflammation, preventing and even reversing enlargement of the heart, improves the cardiac energy metabolism of the heart muscle, and reduces blood pressure.”

The only 2 downsides I’ve found is it removes excess glucose from the body which for us means calories that are needed to grow. Great on a cut but not so much if you are on a bulk. The other downside is “empagliflozin treatment was associated with an early increase in plasma erythropoietin levels accompanied by an increase in hematocrit and reduced ferritin and RBC hemoglobin concentration.” Across numerous studies they’ve seen increases in hematocrit which for those of us on gear and high doses of testosterone this could be problematic.

Another drug that I think might be a benefit is Imeglimin. It’s like Metformin, but much better. It not only causes significant reductions in blood glucose, but it can lower HbA1c, AST, and ALT.

 

[Mastedon]

I’ve been taking Jardiance. I’m taking it for its heart benefits which all of us on gear could benefit from. They are still unsure exactly how it helps reduce the risk of heart failure, but past studies indicate that it’s helping. There are ongoing studies looking at this benefit.

“It improves the hearts ability to pump blood throughout the body, reducing inflammation, preventing and even reversing enlargement of the heart, improves the cardiac energy metabolism of the heart muscle, and reduces blood pressure.”

The only 2 downsides I’ve found is it removes excess glucose from the body which for us means calories that are needed to grow. Great on a cut but not so much if you are on a bulk. The other downside is “empagliflozin treatment was associated with an early increase in plasma erythropoietin levels accompanied by an increase in hematocrit and reduced ferritin and RBC hemoglobin concentration.” Across numerous studies they’ve seen increases in hematocrit which for those of us on gear and high doses of testosterone this could be problematic.

Another drug that I think might be a benefit is Imeglimin. It’s like Metformin, but much better. It not only causes significant reductions in blood glucose, but it can lower HbA1c, AST, and ALT.

Love these kind of posts. Thanks for sharing the info about Jardiance and Imeglimin. Hearing your experience and being able to have something to dig into a bit is very helpful!

 

[Gonz0]

Added in 5mg amlodipine but had to drop it after 2 days because it gave me some crazy edema. If anyone else has had this issue I’m just wondering how long it took for the edema to clear up.

 

[Mastedon]

Added in 5mg amlodipine but had to drop it after 2 days because it gave me some crazy edema. If anyone else has had this issue I’m just wondering how long it took for the edema to clear up.

Progressively got better over about a week for me.

 

[Gonz0]

Progressively got better over about a week for me.

Damn dude I’ve never had edema this bad, literally came out of nowhere