Reta vs Tirz

[seelos]

Hey all, I'm very new to this community and I was wondering if anyone could provide some clarification on these two weight loss drugs.

When I first discovered retatrutide it sounded way too good to be true, but after further research it seems to do exactly what it claims with minimal sides (sensitive skin is the only one I've found). However, it seems that most of the experienced people on here still only discuss tirz as the best option.

I am aware that the appetite suppression effects of reta is overall weaker compared to other weight loss drugs, but ever since I did a couple aggressive mini cuts I haven't really had much trouble with not eating. Is the tirz preference just because most people need more appetite suppression, or is there something else that I'm missing?

I'm waiting on a shipment of reta so I can share my experience soon enough.

 

[Ghoul]

What about ldl and cholesterol reduction ? Is sema, tirz or reta the best?? Ive got sema snd tirz… currently just havent touched them yet

Lipids are improved more with Tirz, and better still with Reta.

This is when you isolate the expected lipid improvement from weight loss. IE, the lowering of LDL and Triglycerides that occurs from direct action of the drug and not what you'd expect from reducing fat.

 

[Ghoul]

I’m running a test/primo cycle at 600/500.

Would it be reasonable to boost fat loss by just adding in GH and staying at what has been maintenance up till now? I’m really only looking to lose 10-15lbs or about 5% body fat over the next 15 weeks. I’m 5’6” and 160lbs. My IGF1 is 230.

Also VO2, aerobic capacity increased a huge amount in the GH+Test group.

I strongly suspect this is because the muscles involved in respiration, which are known to lose anabolic sensitivity at a fairly early age (30s) and begin to decline, become sensitive to Testosterone again thanks to GH, and strengthen rapidly if
you're doing even modest cardio.

They use GH to strengthen respiratory muscles in folks who've been on a respirator for a long time, or have COPD, for instance.

I think it's likely that this respiratory muscle strengthening may even be one of the main causes of both *improved* and *worsened* sleep in rHGH users.

 

[RockyP]

There's no significant difference in lean mass preservation with Tirz or Reta. They both enhance lipolysis so slightly favor fat loss in a calorie deficit. That's why newest GLPs being developed have some component (like IGF receptor agonists) that preserve muscle or stimulate growth, .
The most effective things you can do for muscle while using the GLPs we have now are:

1: Add Testosterone if not already doing so
2: Add rHGH (this will significantly shift body composition to lean mass in a calorie deficit)
3: Ensure you're getting 1g+/kg protein. 2g/kg is ideal. Below .8g you'll lose lean mass in part because GH to IGF conversion will be crushed when protein is low. Studies show approx 40%.

If you do this, along with Test/GH, you'll preserve and even add lean mass while losing fat in as much as a 20% calorie deficit. Basically making your own "next gen muscle preserving GLP" with separate ingredients.

Incredibly important post here.

Most ANY man can get into the best shape of their life with a GLP-1 of their choosing, HRT levels of test, and a little GH. Of course, we love to add more (I am guilty of this), but test / GH / GLP-1 is THE best, easiest, most agreeable cocktail you can come up with (assuming diet and training are dialed in) to get you feeling and looking your best.

 

[Avies48]

Lipids are improved more with Tirz, and better still with Reta.

This is when you isolate the expected lipid improvement from weight loss. IE, the lowering of LDL and Triglycerides that occurs from direct action of the drug and not what you'd expect from reducing fat.

Thanks foe the reply appreciated

 

[Rippidy Dippidy]

Why do you prefer Semaglutide over Tirz?

Appetite suppression. By far my biggest issue.

 

[Fat]

Appetite suppression. By far my biggest issue.

Thank you

In your experience what lowers libido/dopamine the least? Sema, Tirz or Reta

 

[Fat]

There's no significant difference in lean mass preservation with Tirz or Reta. They both enhance lipolysis so slightly favor fat loss in a calorie deficit. That's why newest GLPs being developed have some component (like IGF receptor agonists) that preserve muscle or stimulate growth.

Wouldn't you say Reta is more catabolic? How does Tirz enhance lipolysis?

I am always confused with that one. Chatgpt says strong GIP activation can block fat storage in the fat cells. Do you think that is true

 

[Rippidy Dippidy]

Thank you

In your experience what lowers libido/dopamine the least? Sema, Tirz or Reta

Noticed no real libido issues other than what the lethargy from the deficit created for all, nothing out of the norm. Typical when I dieted without them.

 

[Ghoul]

Wouldn't you say Reta is more catabolic? How does Tirz enhance lipolysis?

I am always confused with that one. Chatgpt says strong GIP activation can block fat storage in the fat cells. Do you think that is true

Improving insulin sensitivity, at the least, means there's less insulin floating around to blunt the lipolysis action of growth hormone. GH telling fat cells to release free fatty acids is easily overpowered by insulin telling them to go into storage mode.

It's very difficult to separate the direct effects of GLP / GIP activation from
the broad effects of these drugs.

 

[RockyP]

These drugs aren’t any more catabolic than starvation would be. The average person taking these drugs is not eating adequate protein and not strength training. That being said I think it would be a chore to try to bulk / build muscle on Sema or Tirz. Many people don’t get a strong appetite suppression from lower doses of Reta and using Reta for nutrient partitioning and increased insulin sensitivity during a bulk phase is being shown by many users to be very advantageous. Can process more clean carbs and use more GH without exogenous insulin.

 

[justtrtbro]

I'm on 100mg/Wk TRT, just started Tirzepatide 3 doses in. I'll probably go up in dose monthly and then switch to Retatrutide once my goal weight stabilizes. I understand that ret is a bit more useful for clearing NAFLD which I have. After that I may stay on low dose of either one forever. Fuck it, too many benefits

 

[MindfulBuff]

I've read some anecdotal reports that Tirzepatide is better for blood glucose control compared to Retatrutide. Does anyone have first hand experience with this? (either fasting glucose or a1c levels)

If that's indeed the case then Tirzepatide would be a better counter to GH induced insulin resistance.

 

[justtrtbro]

I've read some anecdotal reports that Tirzepatide is better for blood glucose control compared to Retatrutide. Does anyone have first hand experience with this? (either fasting glucose or a1c levels)

If that's indeed the case then Tirzepatide would be a better counter to GH induced insulin resistance.

That's really interesting. I'm about to start trying HGH myself, I'm a bit paranoid about diabetes..

 

[Ghoul]

I've read some anecdotal reports that Tirzepatide is better for blood glucose control compared to Retatrutide. Does anyone have first hand experience with this? (either fasting glucose or a1c levels)

If that's indeed the case then Tirzepatide would be a better counter to GH induced insulin resistance.

Based on the data released by Eli Lilly:

At lower doses, 4mg Reta reduces A1C by about 1.3%. 5mg Tirz by 2%. That's a major difference of around 60% better glucose control by Tirz.. Approximately a 50-60mg/dl reduction in fasting glucose levels.

At the highest doses, 12mg Reta vs 15mg Tirz the difference shrinks, but Tirz is still about 10% more effective at lowering A1c.

Reta is more effective for weight loss
than Tirz, but Tirz is pretty clearly superior at glucose control, probobly because Reta stimulates glucose production in the liver.

 

[Earthworm Jim]

@Ghoul I've used the search function and haven’t found any significant discussion about muscle loss on glp1s can you please address how I might mitigate this concern. Is either Reta or tirz better for maintaining muscle mass? I am current running a blast but picking up more soft tissue than I would like.

I wondered if I might be able to eat at maintenance and run Reta for 15 weeks to stay lean. Even considering Tirz for some appetite suppression but I am concerned about slowing down digestion too much. Still hoping to gain some lean mass through all this.

I apologize if I sound like a dummy. Just try to learn the ins and outs of all this.

@Type-IIx has a podcast episode and paper dedicated to this. When you add a myostatin inhibitor to glp-1 you get less lean mass loss AND increase in fat loss. But some people have trouble staying on both so there may be side effects. I encourage you to read his article for clarity

 

[MindfulBuff]

Based on the data released by Eli Lilly:

At lower doses, 4mg Reta reduces A1C by about 1.3%. 5mg Tirz by 2%. That's a major difference of around 60% better glucose control by Tirz.. Approximately a 50-60mg/dl reduction in fasting glucose levels.

At the highest doses, 12mg Reta vs 15mg Tirz the difference shrinks, but Tirz is still about 10% more effective at lowering A1c.

Reta is more effective for weight loss
than Tirz, but Tirz is pretty clearly superior at glucose control, probobly because Reta stimulates glucose production in the liver.

I wonder if Retatrutide is still the better choice for an off season application given that it doesn't hit appetite as much.

For example, one can go on a higher dose of Retatrutide (say 6mg) and still eat vs. not being able to increase Tirz past 3mg even though the 3mg of Tirz would be better for blood glucose control compared to a 3mg dose of Reta.

 

[Liter O' Test]

I wonder if Retatrutide is still the better choice for an off season application given that it doesn't hit appetite as much.

For example, one can go on a higher dose of Retatrutide (say 6mg) and still eat vs. not being able to increase Tirz past 3mg even though the 3mg of Tirz would be better for blood glucose control compared to a 3mg dose of Reta.

yeah the guys who say this also happen to sell reta at $50/mg

 

[justtrtbro]

Based on the data released by Eli Lilly:

At lower doses, 4mg Reta reduces A1C by about 1.3%. 5mg Tirz by 2%. That's a major difference of around 60% better glucose control by Tirz.. Approximately a 50-60mg/dl reduction in fasting glucose levels.

At the highest doses, 12mg Reta vs 15mg Tirz the difference shrinks, but Tirz is still about 10% more effective at lowering A1c.

Reta is more effective for weight loss
than Tirz, but Tirz is pretty clearly superior at glucose control, probobly because Reta stimulates glucose production in the liver.

Very interesting stuff. I'm 5 doses in at 2.5mg/Wk (free mounjaro). I was thinking of taking reta at some point due to NAFLD, but it seems tirz can combat this too, albeit more slowly.

 

[lilhawk]

I've read some anecdotal reports that Tirzepatide is better for blood glucose control compared to Retatrutide. Does anyone have first hand experience with this? (either fasting glucose or a1c levels)

If that's indeed the case then Tirzepatide would be a better counter to GH induced insulin resistance.

2mg per week of Reta keeps my FBG at around 80 on 10iu of Serostim daily. Reta is excellent for improving insulin sensitivity and blood glucose control. I tried Tirz and hated it. Made me feel sick and just awful overall at 2.5mg per week. Reta is amazing and I feel great on it.

 

[Lifting88]

Personally I think if you're using anything above physiologic doses of rHGH, it's foolish not to run a GLP to keep the strain off your beta cells. I can see the effects of growth hormone induced insulin resistance on my CGM, but glucose clearance post meal is very sharp and Tirz keeps me in a tight range consistently. I'm confident I could go long term without inducing pre-diabetes thanks to the protection the GLP provides.
[/QUOTE

Lowest effective doses for this?