RoidyNoob
Member
The Steroid Market Has Collapsed | Janoshik Reveals Why
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf__M0KLNzQ
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
The Steroid Market Has Collapsed | Janoshik Reveals Why
- Thread starter RoidyNoob
- Start date
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf__M0KLNzQ
PiscesMoon
Member
wells14
Member
Just watched this. Very interesting to hear he's tested Mounjaro KwikPens that turned out to be insulin. Seen loads of people in facebook groups recently trying to sell these pens for stupid cheap prices. I assumed they'd just be BAC water. Relabelling Insulin as Tirz is just diabolical.
PSA: Fake mounjaro KwikPen strongly suspect of containing insulin glargine.
In short, what does this video say, to summarize?
Tons of fake raws being tested. Manufacturer testing doesn't from China is about 5-10% what it was a year ago.
gainslol
Member
Youtube's auto generated captions (with errors) for those who prefer reading:
The Steroid Market Has Collapsed | Janoshik Reveals Why
>> Yeah. Have you So, have you seen any trends in that in waves in sort of, you know, it's gone really bad for a while and and then it's good for a while or
>> Yeah. Well, given the time we've been around, we've seen a couple of couple of times when the quality of drugs went down or availability changed. I've never seen it been as bad as it is now where we're testing a lot of raw powders that turn out to be anything but steroids. We're getting hundreds of raw powder samples that turn out to not be steroids at all. Well, we used to get a whole lot of raw powders directly from China from the manufacturers or distributors and that sort of stopped the most of the anabolic steroid samples from China. They simply stopped coming. It's been mostly that particular people in China had been arrested that been involved with the biggest anabolic during manufacturing plant and a lot of people went down with them. So everybody's pretty anxious about starting manufacturer. What's up guys? Welcome back to the podcast with Dave Crosslin. I'm Scott McN. And all of our programming, it's brought to you by you, the people of Patreon. Thank you very much for your support. We are brought to you by evalbloodanalysis.com. You can get your lab work done by Dave if you're in the UK. And hey, if you're in the UK, you can get some great health supplements from Stum Sports Nutrition. They've got some great health stacks, especially if you're on cycle. And they're available here in the US now, too. We're also brought to you by supplements.ca for Canadians. Great deals that change week to week in Canada. And of course, true.com. Use our code think to get 10% off all your basic bodybuilding supplements like protein powder, creatin, intraworkout, all of that. Dave, I am freaking pumped today. This is going to be epic. We have Peter Magic joining us from Janoshik. Dude, you are basically a legend at this point, Peter.
>> Well, thank you. I really do appreciate that. I've been doing this since I've been 17 years old, so it's quite a while for me as well. And I'm glad I finally made it to the legendary stuff.
>> How and so how long have we been have you guys been Let me first say this. Let me just kind of give you a little bit of an intro. So, you know, back when I was younger, uh, we used to be able to test anabolic steroids domestically, not a problem. And we had a lot of peer reviews, people sending in samples, labs sending in samples. around 2007ish or so, uh, we had something that went down called Operation Raw Deal. And as a result, a bunch of domestic labs were busted and our ability to test anabolic steroids became knocked off. We were no longer able to do it. So, basically, we're just kind of shooting in the dark here. Um it it is a long period of time until Janoshik came out. But now we can send our stuff out to get everything tested and be assured that you know we're we're getting the quality. We're getting the like the safety that we want out of an unregulated you know anabolic steroid. And that's that's where you come into play. How long have you been doing this for now? Well, I'm not really sure uh if it was 2012 or 2013 when I started, but it's been roughly about that time. I would like to apologize for not being available right away in the 2007, but I was only 13. So, so that didn't that didn't work right away.
>> Yeah, no problem. But I I started I started doing this pretty young because uh I was I was into the powerlifting and bodybuilding scene a little bit. I tal I had a lot of friends from the field. So and they all they all had the same issue as you as you said. Uh they had no way of knowing whether the stuff they were buying was the real deal or not. And like everyone the constant worry was what if it's something else? What did I grow? Uh what if I'm going to grow a huge T whatever they simply nobody really knew uh anything and they had to guess. So I figured this can't be that difficult. So I started I figured at the local university well local from a couple hundred kilometers away they had the equipment. there was a friend who could help with that. Uh so we started to to do tests for friends for B money. Basically the expenses plus a couple of beers for us just so they have a rough idea whether what they're using is what they paid for, what they expect or not.
>> Okay. And it just took off from there. It it it continued to grow. Uh you guys are you guys are well staffed now. You're not alone here. You're running like all sorts of I know you're running all sorts of tests. Can you give us some examples? Like what are the most popular testings that you guys do on a daily basis?
>> Wow. There's 30 of us over 30 of us at this point.
>> Yeah, we we we receive hundreds of samples every day. So, it's it's pretty crazy. And uh we mostly the most of the samples over 70% or 80% of them they're mostly peptide hormones which became extremely popular in the recent years especially with the uh advant advance of GLP-1 peptides the weight loss drugs. uh so they are a huge part of our business but the 20 30% it's mostly the anabolic it's is the anabolic steroids which are a staple where by far the biggest lab in the world who does anabolic steroid testing you know in most of the countries it's not even legally possible there's only a couple of countries in Europe where it's actually legally possible to do this sort of tests and There's only a couple of uh other labs that do this. So for us, it's mostly anabolic steroids, then it's the peptides, and then of course we do everything else that might interest people. We do uh hair loss drugs,
>> we do a lot of experimental medicines. We're pretty famous in the uh orphan drug groups. Like there's some there's a couple of there's people who have some sort of disease that the drug is not available for but there are a couple of drugs that are being investigated. So they procure these drugs through various means and they have us uh test them verify verify whether it's whether whether they're really getting what they had custom made and stuff like that. We do we do a lot of interesting work in that regard. You know the steroids it's always the 40 50 most common anabolic steroids all over again and again again and here and there you get an exotic esester here or something something more rare but the actual research sort of stuff the actual difficult part of the business is dealing with the novel drugs and stuff like that.
>> All right. Yeah, that gives I can only imagine how busy you guys are and we've got a bunch of stuff where we want to like dig into actually talking about testing. But before we did, um, you know, with all of that said, do you see yourself as more of a like a scientist or a watchdog or an educator? Where do you see yourself fitting in in our culture?
>> Well, um, I hope I I could call myself a scientist. Uh I don't feel calling myself watchdog is appropriate. That's that's not my work. That's not that's not what I do. I I just provide people with the results and it's up to the people themselves to police the environment they are in. So I I just give the information to people and they need to interpret them which I will gladly help. But it's still, you know, there's always going to be stuff like, okay, he send a diff when the people will claim he send in a different sample, etc., etc.
>> Yeah,
>> we need more independent testing, blind test. And that's something that the testing institution is unable to provide. Uh that's what the what the actual users, the people who buy stuff, who watch the reports, who get the stuff tested themselves, that's up to them. So I'm definitely not a watchdog about educator. I I try I try to explain the testing to people so they can grasp on how it works, what's important for them. But still that's not the main thing I do. I just get in get get in samples and try to provide results that are easy to comprehend. That's why we keep the reports like really really simple and I myself prefer the science be honest the most like dealing with the difficult samples figuring something figuring something out that that's the stuff I love and that's that's mostly what I'm doing at the moment the rooting tests like the anabolic stesos test and antiate 250 that doesn't really warrant my attention at this point we we have excellent personnel that can handle the common stuff perfectly. If they're unsure, they run 20 more tests on it. So, we we're in deep in red on on that particular sample because we run so many tests on it, we run into negative profit,
>> which happens quite often. But when when my staff doesn't like something, they prefer to over test the sample. And I mostly deal with with stuff when there's some issue that they cannot handle by themselves at this point.
>> Yeah. Have you ever had anybody come back with like they get a negative test? Have you ever had anybody like try to bribe you or threaten you or anything like that? Like, "Hey, bro, you can't put this information out there?"
>> I'm not really sure whether it's been hundreds or thousands of times. [Music] And I know I know in the very early days there was a lot of argument around legitimacy. Um in the very early days when you were like when you were only 17 18 and you first started there were a lot of people questioning legitimacy over here. And obviously time has proven that to be incorrect but at the time obviously people were were like oh he's getting backhanders from labs he's getting this. He's getting that. There were a lot of that floating around in the early days, but I think the consistency of the business, the fact that it's still here 12, 13 years later is what's you've you've just outraded a lot of that mistrust because you're still here, you're still going, you're still producing results.
>> Yeah. Uh I mean I do understand the skepticism because when I see I see new analytical labs pop up basically every week now and roughly 95% of them are associated with someone and I I I do I do understand the skepticism pretty well. I try I tried really hard to convince people back then. It didn't always work well. So at some point I
>> Yeah. At some point I just decided to go okay so time will tell and then the year of five years 10 years passed and like okay so I guess time told it's been a lot of people they assume that I'm associated with someone but it always turned out the my customers they come and go the big labs it's been it's been I've been around for to see a lot of big names come and go come and go and everyone one when someone associated me to be associated with them. It turned out to be complete nonsense
>> cuz you're still here. They're gone.
>> Yeah. The bribes. Well, it never really made sense to me because uh I I was pretty proud back then and I'm still am. So, it never occurred to me to accept the bribe. I would think less of myself. I couldn't have that, right? uh but at some point the business turned out so profitable that it simply didn't make no sense to ex to raise the business for an it's made no economical sense uh most of the labs most of the manufacturers distributors etc they're much smaller venues than my company at this point and it would be it would be rather difficult not only risking the business but we're an audited company So how it's not quite possible to accept the bribes for a company that no
>> if if I accepted bribe as a private person that would be the best thing ever for the law enforcement which doesn't particularly like my enjoy my line of business and me accepting bribes it would be illegal first and foremost. Second, they could me they could accuse me of being associated with some black market
>> uh vendors etc which which could be interpreted in the code of blah blah in a terrible terrible terrible way for me. So it's simply not worth the risk. We al so but the people they try to bribe me all the time. It's just it's it's it's it's pretty insulting at this point, but we just ref try to refuse in a calm manner. The the actual the actual business policy is to not let me to talk to people who try that because I get angry easily and we we've used to got a lot of threats too back back then mostly a decade ago or so. But once people understood that it's not just it once it stopped being a oneman company
>> the people understood that
>> uh if they if they try to threaten me I can actually push back I can actually report that and if if someone in the black market is threatening people from some company the law enforcement is going to take a bite at them.
>> Yeah. And even if something happened, there's there's the company simply goes on. There's 30 people in here. And so somehat sometime roughly four or five years ago, the threats they completely stopped or at least I'm not getting to the emails where people actually threaten us. I'm not doing the mails most of the time. So who knows what they're hiding from me.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, go ahead Dave.
>> I'm sorry if you don't mind. Um, at what point did the company change from you and a mate in a lab testing for your friends? Did did it just did you get to a point where you go, you know what, there's a business here or did it just slowly evolve and then you were like, actually I've created a business because I mean I assume originally it wasn't particularly legitimized. It was just a friend testing when he could in the lab and that was that was it. And then as volume increased, you were like, "Right, we need to get a little bit more organized. We need to get a little bit more legit." Or did you build it as a legit company from the ground up from the very first day?
>> Oh, no. Like I said, it's been uh mostly as a service to my friends.
>> Uh so we were doing it basically for B money. We we had a couple beers of profit and that was it. But one of my friends from the US, he was like, "Okay, I'm going to have this tested and that tested and even that tested, you know, because you're cheap as a as an Eastern European whore." So, okay. Okay, bud. I love you. So, it's not going to be 20 bucks for you. It's going to be 60 for sample. And that's the exact moment it's turned into a business. He was pretty mad afterwards, but he paid nevertheless.
>> Hey, 60 would still be a deal. I would have taken that, you know.
>> Yeah. But, uh, it's been it's been pretty early on. It must be in 2013 at most. So, but yeah, that's that's when we started making making some actual profit and the people that my friends, they recommended me further. So, I kept the price and okay, so we needed to deal with more samples with more emails or dealing with more difficulties. So we charge the people more and I actually it was untenable to keep doing this in in the university. So I started saving my share of the money uh so I could start my own lab and we switched from the I switched from the using the university labs to my own pretty early on. So that's where most of the money went and that's when it transformed into the business.
>> Hell yeah. So, back to the the actual testing and you know, we were talking about like people that were getting results that they weren't happy with. Um, I have you ever seen like really serious issues with a product like contamination, something like totally wrong, something where the user's health could have been at serious risk had you not found this out? Well, we're not seeing stuff like that often, but we've had some luck this this week, this very week. We had I don't have it with me, but we had this Mongjaro pen, you know, tupatite in a pen.
>> Yeah. Wiki pen or something like that it's called. I'm not really sure. And we tested it and there was no tupatite in there.
>> And we were like, okay, that's weird. Because the pen itself, it looked pretty it looked pretty well. We didn't expect it to be a fake, but we saw something in there. And we duck. We duck. We tried to figure out what it is. And it turned out to be insulin. Ensulin glaring. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it right. I've never ever heard that word in English,
>> but a form of turn out.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it it contain insulin. We don't know the dose. We cannot test the dose without having a standard for that one in a finished product. But insulin while it is potentially lethal. We've seen some OMIC pens that were relabeled insulin. So if you OD on OMIC, you you're in for a bad time. That's uh some nausea, bloating, not being able to take a poo for a week, but it's not going to kill you. But if you screw up with inselenium there there's an actual risk of death there.
>> So we've seen that and then off the top of my head there's been it's not been a singular occasion where people who were actually manufacturing you know clenbutter tablets they did not quite comprehend what microgram is. So they made 40 mg pills
>> which could turn turn out to be potentially little as well.
>> And I'm really glad I'm really glad we called sort of stuff like that like when the actual manufacturer had it tested.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh before they put it on the market and we're like no dude stop this. Don't let any of this get anywhere because you're you're going to be in for a very very bad time.
>> Yeah. So what we do have
>> we do have massively increased his profit margin as well.
>> Yeah. Like one tablet will break down to an entire bottle at that point, you know.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I'm I'm I'm really glad the uh the guy he he the guy who actually this happened for happened too. He had a really good uh how do I put it? uh he was used to having everything tested before he sold it and it saved his ass in this case because you know you put something like this between the people. Uh there's going to be uh bodily harm caused and that's going to start an investigation
>> and he would get in into a whole lot of trouble and you don't want to do that to your clients I assume.
>> So we do see we do see stuff like this
>> here and there.
>> That's incredible. I want to jump forward and uh talk about a top. You know, before I do though, I do want to mention one thing. When we were talking about the bribes um you know, the potential or or rumors of I would say this, the number one way to check you would be to do our own testing. If I sent you, let's let's say that you had a a testing company that was, you know, getting bribed. if I were to then buy their product or whatever and then I send you an unlabeled vial,
>> you can't know whose that is and you're going to give me the results. So, like I just I I wanted to throw that out there that we can keep you in check by doing our own testing and not just relying on COAs that we see online. You know what I'm saying?
>> Exactly. Uh I always tell the people send in blind samples. Yeah. Dilute the samples by yourself. I mean, you can you can put half cooking oil, half sample, and you'll you'll know yourself. And then you send in the original sample, too. And if it's not the results don't match up, you know someone somewhere is screwing up.
>> Yeah. Hey, what's going on, guys? Just a quick shout out to True Nutrition. I figured I'd bring you to the home gym here. So, welcome. And I just wanted to show you my order. So, nothing big deal. I've got a few pounds of the cold filtered weight iso. I'm a big fan of the cookie butter flavor. I've been on this this year. This has like been my favorite. but they've got a bunch of different flavors. So, if you're interested in something else, just check them out. It's a it's a very light protein overall. It's not going to bloat your digestion down. It's not going to cause a bunch of water retention. This is the kind of protein that I suggest to people who are doing a contest prep. They've got all your basic bodybuilding supplements like creatin. They've got great intraworkout highly branch cyclic dextrin, which is the high-end. And then they've got the cheaper stuff like Carbo Load, like anybody can afford that. And of course, use our code think. It'll get you 10% off. They really kicked up. It used to only be 5%. that now you get 10% off if you use the code and it throws some money our way too so it definitely helps the podcast out a ton might be a buck here and there but you know if you guys all use the code it definitely adds up and you have been using the code so thank you for that let's get back to the podcast but thank you for uh hanging out with me here in the home gym
>> what's up Dave
>> very quick one have you seen a trend in I mean obviously there's probably going to be about a 10 50% margin on dosing because it will be quite I would have thought dosing would be quite variable but have you seen any trends in the quality of drugs in general? So obviously more recently there's been raw shortages uh coming out of China.
>> So have you seen an increase in incorrectly labeled or incorrectly dosed drugs more recently than you had say the previous 12 months? Have you seen patterns like that where there's a because I would imagine and it did I don't know if this is particularly just down to you. I mean obviously you are a large operation but for a while we we we've sort of seen in general from user feedback we we've had a fairly stable market when it came to quality of drugs. Drugs seem to be reasonably good.
>> Yeah.
>> Generally speaking decent quality well dosed and then obviously with the shortages things seem to have gone arry again. Prior to that, quality of drugs seem to be in the bin.
>> Yeah. Has that changed?
>> Yeah. Have you So, have you seen any trends in that in waves in sort of, you know, it's gone really bad for a while and and then it's good for a while or
>> Yeah. Well, given the time we've been around, we've seen a couple of couple of times when the quality of drugs went down or availability changed. But to put it mildly, and excuse my French, in the past couple of months, it went completely down the shitta, if I may.
>> No, no, you're fair enough by
>> Yes.
>> Uh I' I've never uh I've never seen it been as bad as it is now, where we're testing a lot of raw powders that turn out to be anything but steroids. We we we're see we're seeing a lot of vitamin tocoperro acetate, which is vitamin E, being sold as steroids. We're seeing paracetamol being sold as I don't know what oxandrolone we're see we're getting hundreds of raw powder samples that turn out to not be steroids at all.
>> Wow.
>> Like we get we get we get an order of 20 samples of 20 powders and not a single one of them turn out to be a steroid. So it's never been as bad as this. Everyone's pretty desperate to find some source of the raw material materials. And then there's a lot of places, a lot of people who don't test or who might have gotten I I I'm hypotizing here, but they might have gotten 10 bags of something. Three bags turned out well and seven didn't, but they didn't know because they tested only one of them.
>> And then they make tablets out of that or they make oils out of that. And then we we're seeing oils or tablets that don't contain nothing at all. So yeah. Yeah. What we're seeing right now with the anabolic steroids where it's it's complete mayhem. Uh we've never seen it as bad as as it is right now. The raw materials there's real scarcity at this moment that's been getting worse and worse. Uh so so so the development in the past couple of months I I would say it's it might be roughly a year it's getting worse and worse.
>> Wow. Yeah. We've been excuse me we've been watching that whole progression along the way and we've been trying to track down like exactly what's going on. You know we've heard all sorts of stories about this precursor isn't available. We've heard stories of that a lot of places in China are getting shut down raw producers. Have you had any kind of insight um into what the big change was all about?
>> I do have a I do have a rather good idea. Uh it's been mostly that particular people in China had been arrested that been involved with the biggest anabolic manufacturing plant and a lot of people went down with them. So everybody's pretty anxious about starting manufacturer uh keeping warehouses and that I I I I I won't be putting out names but it's both been caused by
>> a single major arrest that led to many uh arrests in China.
>> Wow. Okay. They that's some news for us Dave because we we didn't we didn't know that. We've been trying to dig into this and and find out. But I know that you know having followed you and paid attention to things you you know the work you've done I've heard you say that US is your number one market then China where everything's being created is number two. Um you know what what kind of changes are you seeing there? Are you saying like that some of the raw powders that they're directly sending out are are coming back as bad from the source or are you saying more that like the things that are faked or underdosed are people that received the raw powder and then send it to you? Well, we used to get a whole lot of raw powders directly from China from the manufacturers or distributors and that sort of stopped the most of the anabolic steroid samples from China. They simply stopped coming.
>> So what we're where we're getting most of the anabolic steroid samples is anywhere but China. So basically our anabolic steroid orders or analyzis orders from China let's say they drop to 5 to 10% of what they used to be
>> compared to a year or two ago.
>> Yeah. Which is huge considering the amount of work you guys are doing now? Um I mean we're are you seeing any anybody else pick up this slack like Turkey, India? Are there any labs in other countries that are So nobody's stepped up to the market yet. Huh.
>> Exactly. There's been there's been no influx from manufacturers from any other country so far.
>> Wow, this sounds bleak, Dave.
>> Quick legal question if you don't mind. Um,
>> in the UK, obviously the law around steroids is a bit unusual. Testing samples provided by a private individual is no problem. Perfectly legal. That can be done easily over here. where it gets tricky and this is the bit that I found interesting. There would be a potential viewpoint here that if you were receiving RAW from a manufacturer that you could be implemented in supporting the supply has that been do you have any legal gray areas around actually receiving the raw powders or is that just it's fine it's because because of the volume of the sample is quite small.
>> Well the volume of the sample is quite small. We don't we don't need a lot of sample for the testing
>> and the law here we we we have the paperwork for unlimited import export handling and everything of this.
>> So if I wanted to import 50 tons of trend right here right now there would be no legal way to stop us from doing so.
>> We of course we of course don't abuse the system because we want to keep the relationships with the authorities
>> as as as as good as possible. We we we don't screw around like that, but technically the paperwork we have is completely unlimited in every possible regard.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. I know that the it was never tested, so no one knew if it would really be, but the general consensus was if you started receiving raw as a testing lab here that they would implement you in supporting the supply.
>> Ah, no. No such thing over here. We receive a whole lot of raw materials. So here and there a simple mistake like instead of sending one gram of the sample we receive like one kilo.
>> It happens here and there and the customs they know because all our mail we we received with a lot of scheduled chemicals.
>> Yeah.
>> And the customs they check each and every mail of us and we need to declare it properly so they know exactly what we're important. uh because we need to keep the evidence of u import uh getting rid of the samples, archavation, etc., etc. So, we do produce roughly 10,000 pages of paperwork a week.
>> Oh god.
>> Thank god you have like 30 people on staff because that doesn't sound like the fun part of the job.
>> That that certainly isn't. I've got one more one more question um on on the uh the issue with RAWs currently. How common is it to see like a pristine primo sample and master and ethic? Because I'm seeing those as being the two most difficult ones to get. And from my end of things, I'm seeing a lot of labs that aren't carrying it. I'm seeing labs that are doubling their pricing. I'm seeing labs also that are saying, "Hey, there's no problem. and we're going to sell it to you at the same price it's always been which definitely raises my eyebrow.
>> Well, there's this major issue with the fact we don't know what most of the anabolic state samples are supposed to be. We we push people strongly towards sending those blind. So, we don't know if the oil was supposed to be 32 migram test propionate or 100 primo. But we we can guess that it's was not supposed to be the 30 migram test P. But uh so for most of the samples we don't know we don't want to know what it's supposed to be because if we don't know it in and we tell the people it increases you know the trust in our work.
>> Yeah.
>> And but generally we're seeing the primo and must their fate a lot less than one would assume.
>> Okay. Um, I mean I I I I like to tell this story a lot, but your biggest risk of getting fake primo is getting those uh those cool tiny rhymable and amps from buyer. If you're getting those, you you're putting yourself in a huge risk of getting cooking oil in a while in an expensive ampule.
>> Okay.
>> So, a lot of those we're seeing, they contain nothing but oil inside. So that's that's an interesting tidbit of what we've seen. But generally the mast and primal oils they're not faked more than other oils. Uh of course there's a bias if the people are already sending the the samples to us then they're the people who know that there's possibility of testing stuff then the the people who can use the internet to Google to look for the reviewed sources. So there's a bias that we what we're seeing is cream of the crop. You know, we're not we're not going to get an oil being sold in some back alley which
>> uh so there's a huge bias in this. So we're seeing cream of the crop but from what we're seeing the mast and primal oils they're not faked more than anything than any other stuff.
>> Okay. And that's assuming that Yeah. So that makes sense as long as that's what they're in. If I'm sending you something and you tell me, "Hey, you got 250 milligrams test sip on the nose, but I'm saying, "Oh, man, that was supposed to be primo." That's that's another story, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We we we we don't we only want samples to be labeled by numbers like 1 2 3 A B C D F. We don't care. The the the less we know about the sample, the sample name, the manufacturer, the batch, the less typing there is for us when issuing the report. So,
>> all right.
>> One one last question, too, is you know, what's what's one thing that you wish the steroid using community knew about, you know, basically doing the things that we do, using the things that we use uh to to reach our goals in bodybuilding. When it comes to peeds,
>> well, what I'd like to tell people is that you only got one health, so stay as safe as possible and really consider what what you're doing. Uh what's necessary, etc. Just there's there's you can always do more anabolics later on, but you can save up health once you screw it up. And the simpler you keep stuff, the better for you. And also I'm a huge I'm a huge fan of not touching anything that doesn't have at least 40 years of medical research on human uh you know the testosterone uh human growth hormone even insulin. They're extremely well researched
>> compounds. Uh people know exactly what happens when you use them etc etc. What risks they carry. Uh they're like they're well-known compounds, but in every field in bodybuilding especially, you get new compounds popping up every year that's supposed to do something interesting and cool. But those molecules are not studied. The people cannot know what really are the long-term effects of doing that. what unressearched stories might be the most worrisome trend I'm seeing in every community around is that they hop on every new stuff and they don't consider the risk so risk so with anabolic steroids that are well researched if you really do need to use them to achieve your goals just stay as reasonable and as safe as possible for people like the risk of you uh getting random liver or kidney cancer from testosterone or stuff like that are almost nil but uh getting it from research compound something something uh I don't want to mention any names but there are some well-known ones that uh people suspect of being pretty risky in this regard.
>> Yeah.
>> So basically don't try to reinvent the wheel. Just stay as safe as possible. Oh, I I I I don't feel very I don't feel like I should be advising people too much. I I I just give it to give them data they have available. But a lot of of often times I see people doing really on the internet. I keep try to keep in touch in the community and I see people doing very worrisome stuff which they could fix uh in ways that are not as risky towards their health or or anything.
>> Yeah. Yeah, and that's a big message that we try to send home, too. Um, I if people are interested in getting testing, if they want to follow along with any work that you're putting out, what are the best ways to number one work with you and number two follow what you're doing, any releases that you have on reports and stuff like that?
>> Well, we don't really have a unified channel for communication with the people. We hope to have a new website soon, but it's been like going to hell and back again with trying to get an ehop running. Uh, but so far the best way to get in touch with us and do business is to simply mail us at infoedship.com. Uh, that's where we handle we have a we have a team of people handling the emails. So they they handle orders, they handle questions, they try to avoid as many questions as possible because we're not really qualified to provide advice on on cycles, on health stuff, especially not the mailbox girls. And we cannot a lot of people there ask us for recommendations on brands and everything.
>> Yeah, I bet that's a big one.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And we we we we try to tell them like no we really can't do that. You know what sort of a testing lab would advise if if if a testing lab is advising you is uh recommending someone that's a big red flag for me. That's like okay.
>> Yeah.
>> They're going to be it's there's like 95% that this uh lab is going to be associated with them. You see it all the time. There's a testing lab nobody ever heard of, but from out of nowhere some other lab, some lab manufacturer vendor, they pop up and all their testing is from this single lab nobody ever heard of.
>> So 100% every product,
>> you know.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> I mean, I must admit
>> I won't recommend branding or anything like that in the coaching and stuff because it's like you say, you're guilty by association then.
>> Yeah, exactly. But You also lose your professionalism as a testing organization. It's like when we do the bloods, we don't recommend any brands. We'll recommend types of supplements to support health, but we won't recommend brands
>> because exactly
>> to me then if you're recommending a brand then people are going why you recommend that bend. Is it because you're getting paid by that brand to do that where I so I'd rather recommend the ingredients that make that product and then they can go and source the product they want.
>> Yeah. Not only is it very unprofessional given that these are scheduled compounds most of the time and everything it could put us in a leg league responsibility sort of situation. So I would like to avoid it too but the biggest part for me is it would be unprofessional.
>> Send it my way. I'll deal with I'll deal with that cycle questions.
>> Well, thank you for taking the time to hang out with us, man. We understand that you're super busy over there. Uh this has been extremely insightful, man, and we both really appreciate it. and I'm sure that our listeners are going to appreciate it too.
>> Well, thank you too. It's been a great pleasure talking with you.
>> Okay,
>> guys, we've got uh Peter Magic here from Janoshik. Head over, get everything tested, be safe, and uh for another episode of the podcast with Dave Crosslin. I'm Scott McN. We'll see you soon. [Music]
>> Yeah. Have you So, have you seen any trends in that in waves in sort of, you know, it's gone really bad for a while and and then it's good for a while or
>> Yeah. Well, given the time we've been around, we've seen a couple of couple of times when the quality of drugs went down or availability changed. I've never seen it been as bad as it is now where we're testing a lot of raw powders that turn out to be anything but steroids. We're getting hundreds of raw powder samples that turn out to not be steroids at all. Well, we used to get a whole lot of raw powders directly from China from the manufacturers or distributors and that sort of stopped the most of the anabolic steroid samples from China. They simply stopped coming. It's been mostly that particular people in China had been arrested that been involved with the biggest anabolic during manufacturing plant and a lot of people went down with them. So everybody's pretty anxious about starting manufacturer. What's up guys? Welcome back to the podcast with Dave Crosslin. I'm Scott McN. And all of our programming, it's brought to you by you, the people of Patreon. Thank you very much for your support. We are brought to you by evalbloodanalysis.com. You can get your lab work done by Dave if you're in the UK. And hey, if you're in the UK, you can get some great health supplements from Stum Sports Nutrition. They've got some great health stacks, especially if you're on cycle. And they're available here in the US now, too. We're also brought to you by supplements.ca for Canadians. Great deals that change week to week in Canada. And of course, true.com. Use our code think to get 10% off all your basic bodybuilding supplements like protein powder, creatin, intraworkout, all of that. Dave, I am freaking pumped today. This is going to be epic. We have Peter Magic joining us from Janoshik. Dude, you are basically a legend at this point, Peter.
>> Well, thank you. I really do appreciate that. I've been doing this since I've been 17 years old, so it's quite a while for me as well. And I'm glad I finally made it to the legendary stuff.
>> How and so how long have we been have you guys been Let me first say this. Let me just kind of give you a little bit of an intro. So, you know, back when I was younger, uh, we used to be able to test anabolic steroids domestically, not a problem. And we had a lot of peer reviews, people sending in samples, labs sending in samples. around 2007ish or so, uh, we had something that went down called Operation Raw Deal. And as a result, a bunch of domestic labs were busted and our ability to test anabolic steroids became knocked off. We were no longer able to do it. So, basically, we're just kind of shooting in the dark here. Um it it is a long period of time until Janoshik came out. But now we can send our stuff out to get everything tested and be assured that you know we're we're getting the quality. We're getting the like the safety that we want out of an unregulated you know anabolic steroid. And that's that's where you come into play. How long have you been doing this for now? Well, I'm not really sure uh if it was 2012 or 2013 when I started, but it's been roughly about that time. I would like to apologize for not being available right away in the 2007, but I was only 13. So, so that didn't that didn't work right away.
>> Yeah, no problem. But I I started I started doing this pretty young because uh I was I was into the powerlifting and bodybuilding scene a little bit. I tal I had a lot of friends from the field. So and they all they all had the same issue as you as you said. Uh they had no way of knowing whether the stuff they were buying was the real deal or not. And like everyone the constant worry was what if it's something else? What did I grow? Uh what if I'm going to grow a huge T whatever they simply nobody really knew uh anything and they had to guess. So I figured this can't be that difficult. So I started I figured at the local university well local from a couple hundred kilometers away they had the equipment. there was a friend who could help with that. Uh so we started to to do tests for friends for B money. Basically the expenses plus a couple of beers for us just so they have a rough idea whether what they're using is what they paid for, what they expect or not.
>> Okay. And it just took off from there. It it it continued to grow. Uh you guys are you guys are well staffed now. You're not alone here. You're running like all sorts of I know you're running all sorts of tests. Can you give us some examples? Like what are the most popular testings that you guys do on a daily basis?
>> Wow. There's 30 of us over 30 of us at this point.
>> Yeah, we we we receive hundreds of samples every day. So, it's it's pretty crazy. And uh we mostly the most of the samples over 70% or 80% of them they're mostly peptide hormones which became extremely popular in the recent years especially with the uh advant advance of GLP-1 peptides the weight loss drugs. uh so they are a huge part of our business but the 20 30% it's mostly the anabolic it's is the anabolic steroids which are a staple where by far the biggest lab in the world who does anabolic steroid testing you know in most of the countries it's not even legally possible there's only a couple of countries in Europe where it's actually legally possible to do this sort of tests and There's only a couple of uh other labs that do this. So for us, it's mostly anabolic steroids, then it's the peptides, and then of course we do everything else that might interest people. We do uh hair loss drugs,
>> we do a lot of experimental medicines. We're pretty famous in the uh orphan drug groups. Like there's some there's a couple of there's people who have some sort of disease that the drug is not available for but there are a couple of drugs that are being investigated. So they procure these drugs through various means and they have us uh test them verify verify whether it's whether whether they're really getting what they had custom made and stuff like that. We do we do a lot of interesting work in that regard. You know the steroids it's always the 40 50 most common anabolic steroids all over again and again again and here and there you get an exotic esester here or something something more rare but the actual research sort of stuff the actual difficult part of the business is dealing with the novel drugs and stuff like that.
>> All right. Yeah, that gives I can only imagine how busy you guys are and we've got a bunch of stuff where we want to like dig into actually talking about testing. But before we did, um, you know, with all of that said, do you see yourself as more of a like a scientist or a watchdog or an educator? Where do you see yourself fitting in in our culture?
>> Well, um, I hope I I could call myself a scientist. Uh I don't feel calling myself watchdog is appropriate. That's that's not my work. That's not that's not what I do. I I just provide people with the results and it's up to the people themselves to police the environment they are in. So I I just give the information to people and they need to interpret them which I will gladly help. But it's still, you know, there's always going to be stuff like, okay, he send a diff when the people will claim he send in a different sample, etc., etc.
>> Yeah,
>> we need more independent testing, blind test. And that's something that the testing institution is unable to provide. Uh that's what the what the actual users, the people who buy stuff, who watch the reports, who get the stuff tested themselves, that's up to them. So I'm definitely not a watchdog about educator. I I try I try to explain the testing to people so they can grasp on how it works, what's important for them. But still that's not the main thing I do. I just get in get get in samples and try to provide results that are easy to comprehend. That's why we keep the reports like really really simple and I myself prefer the science be honest the most like dealing with the difficult samples figuring something figuring something out that that's the stuff I love and that's that's mostly what I'm doing at the moment the rooting tests like the anabolic stesos test and antiate 250 that doesn't really warrant my attention at this point we we have excellent personnel that can handle the common stuff perfectly. If they're unsure, they run 20 more tests on it. So, we we're in deep in red on on that particular sample because we run so many tests on it, we run into negative profit,
>> which happens quite often. But when when my staff doesn't like something, they prefer to over test the sample. And I mostly deal with with stuff when there's some issue that they cannot handle by themselves at this point.
>> Yeah. Have you ever had anybody come back with like they get a negative test? Have you ever had anybody like try to bribe you or threaten you or anything like that? Like, "Hey, bro, you can't put this information out there?"
>> I'm not really sure whether it's been hundreds or thousands of times. [Music] And I know I know in the very early days there was a lot of argument around legitimacy. Um in the very early days when you were like when you were only 17 18 and you first started there were a lot of people questioning legitimacy over here. And obviously time has proven that to be incorrect but at the time obviously people were were like oh he's getting backhanders from labs he's getting this. He's getting that. There were a lot of that floating around in the early days, but I think the consistency of the business, the fact that it's still here 12, 13 years later is what's you've you've just outraded a lot of that mistrust because you're still here, you're still going, you're still producing results.
>> Yeah. Uh I mean I do understand the skepticism because when I see I see new analytical labs pop up basically every week now and roughly 95% of them are associated with someone and I I I do I do understand the skepticism pretty well. I try I tried really hard to convince people back then. It didn't always work well. So at some point I
>> Yeah. At some point I just decided to go okay so time will tell and then the year of five years 10 years passed and like okay so I guess time told it's been a lot of people they assume that I'm associated with someone but it always turned out the my customers they come and go the big labs it's been it's been I've been around for to see a lot of big names come and go come and go and everyone one when someone associated me to be associated with them. It turned out to be complete nonsense
>> cuz you're still here. They're gone.
>> Yeah. The bribes. Well, it never really made sense to me because uh I I was pretty proud back then and I'm still am. So, it never occurred to me to accept the bribe. I would think less of myself. I couldn't have that, right? uh but at some point the business turned out so profitable that it simply didn't make no sense to ex to raise the business for an it's made no economical sense uh most of the labs most of the manufacturers distributors etc they're much smaller venues than my company at this point and it would be it would be rather difficult not only risking the business but we're an audited company So how it's not quite possible to accept the bribes for a company that no
>> if if I accepted bribe as a private person that would be the best thing ever for the law enforcement which doesn't particularly like my enjoy my line of business and me accepting bribes it would be illegal first and foremost. Second, they could me they could accuse me of being associated with some black market
>> uh vendors etc which which could be interpreted in the code of blah blah in a terrible terrible terrible way for me. So it's simply not worth the risk. We al so but the people they try to bribe me all the time. It's just it's it's it's it's pretty insulting at this point, but we just ref try to refuse in a calm manner. The the actual the actual business policy is to not let me to talk to people who try that because I get angry easily and we we've used to got a lot of threats too back back then mostly a decade ago or so. But once people understood that it's not just it once it stopped being a oneman company
>> the people understood that
>> uh if they if they try to threaten me I can actually push back I can actually report that and if if someone in the black market is threatening people from some company the law enforcement is going to take a bite at them.
>> Yeah. And even if something happened, there's there's the company simply goes on. There's 30 people in here. And so somehat sometime roughly four or five years ago, the threats they completely stopped or at least I'm not getting to the emails where people actually threaten us. I'm not doing the mails most of the time. So who knows what they're hiding from me.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, go ahead Dave.
>> I'm sorry if you don't mind. Um, at what point did the company change from you and a mate in a lab testing for your friends? Did did it just did you get to a point where you go, you know what, there's a business here or did it just slowly evolve and then you were like, actually I've created a business because I mean I assume originally it wasn't particularly legitimized. It was just a friend testing when he could in the lab and that was that was it. And then as volume increased, you were like, "Right, we need to get a little bit more organized. We need to get a little bit more legit." Or did you build it as a legit company from the ground up from the very first day?
>> Oh, no. Like I said, it's been uh mostly as a service to my friends.
>> Uh so we were doing it basically for B money. We we had a couple beers of profit and that was it. But one of my friends from the US, he was like, "Okay, I'm going to have this tested and that tested and even that tested, you know, because you're cheap as a as an Eastern European whore." So, okay. Okay, bud. I love you. So, it's not going to be 20 bucks for you. It's going to be 60 for sample. And that's the exact moment it's turned into a business. He was pretty mad afterwards, but he paid nevertheless.
>> Hey, 60 would still be a deal. I would have taken that, you know.
>> Yeah. But, uh, it's been it's been pretty early on. It must be in 2013 at most. So, but yeah, that's that's when we started making making some actual profit and the people that my friends, they recommended me further. So, I kept the price and okay, so we needed to deal with more samples with more emails or dealing with more difficulties. So we charge the people more and I actually it was untenable to keep doing this in in the university. So I started saving my share of the money uh so I could start my own lab and we switched from the I switched from the using the university labs to my own pretty early on. So that's where most of the money went and that's when it transformed into the business.
>> Hell yeah. So, back to the the actual testing and you know, we were talking about like people that were getting results that they weren't happy with. Um, I have you ever seen like really serious issues with a product like contamination, something like totally wrong, something where the user's health could have been at serious risk had you not found this out? Well, we're not seeing stuff like that often, but we've had some luck this this week, this very week. We had I don't have it with me, but we had this Mongjaro pen, you know, tupatite in a pen.
>> Yeah. Wiki pen or something like that it's called. I'm not really sure. And we tested it and there was no tupatite in there.
>> And we were like, okay, that's weird. Because the pen itself, it looked pretty it looked pretty well. We didn't expect it to be a fake, but we saw something in there. And we duck. We duck. We tried to figure out what it is. And it turned out to be insulin. Ensulin glaring. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it right. I've never ever heard that word in English,
>> but a form of turn out.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it it contain insulin. We don't know the dose. We cannot test the dose without having a standard for that one in a finished product. But insulin while it is potentially lethal. We've seen some OMIC pens that were relabeled insulin. So if you OD on OMIC, you you're in for a bad time. That's uh some nausea, bloating, not being able to take a poo for a week, but it's not going to kill you. But if you screw up with inselenium there there's an actual risk of death there.
>> So we've seen that and then off the top of my head there's been it's not been a singular occasion where people who were actually manufacturing you know clenbutter tablets they did not quite comprehend what microgram is. So they made 40 mg pills
>> which could turn turn out to be potentially little as well.
>> And I'm really glad I'm really glad we called sort of stuff like that like when the actual manufacturer had it tested.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh before they put it on the market and we're like no dude stop this. Don't let any of this get anywhere because you're you're going to be in for a very very bad time.
>> Yeah. So what we do have
>> we do have massively increased his profit margin as well.
>> Yeah. Like one tablet will break down to an entire bottle at that point, you know.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I'm I'm I'm really glad the uh the guy he he the guy who actually this happened for happened too. He had a really good uh how do I put it? uh he was used to having everything tested before he sold it and it saved his ass in this case because you know you put something like this between the people. Uh there's going to be uh bodily harm caused and that's going to start an investigation
>> and he would get in into a whole lot of trouble and you don't want to do that to your clients I assume.
>> So we do see we do see stuff like this
>> here and there.
>> That's incredible. I want to jump forward and uh talk about a top. You know, before I do though, I do want to mention one thing. When we were talking about the bribes um you know, the potential or or rumors of I would say this, the number one way to check you would be to do our own testing. If I sent you, let's let's say that you had a a testing company that was, you know, getting bribed. if I were to then buy their product or whatever and then I send you an unlabeled vial,
>> you can't know whose that is and you're going to give me the results. So, like I just I I wanted to throw that out there that we can keep you in check by doing our own testing and not just relying on COAs that we see online. You know what I'm saying?
>> Exactly. Uh I always tell the people send in blind samples. Yeah. Dilute the samples by yourself. I mean, you can you can put half cooking oil, half sample, and you'll you'll know yourself. And then you send in the original sample, too. And if it's not the results don't match up, you know someone somewhere is screwing up.
>> Yeah. Hey, what's going on, guys? Just a quick shout out to True Nutrition. I figured I'd bring you to the home gym here. So, welcome. And I just wanted to show you my order. So, nothing big deal. I've got a few pounds of the cold filtered weight iso. I'm a big fan of the cookie butter flavor. I've been on this this year. This has like been my favorite. but they've got a bunch of different flavors. So, if you're interested in something else, just check them out. It's a it's a very light protein overall. It's not going to bloat your digestion down. It's not going to cause a bunch of water retention. This is the kind of protein that I suggest to people who are doing a contest prep. They've got all your basic bodybuilding supplements like creatin. They've got great intraworkout highly branch cyclic dextrin, which is the high-end. And then they've got the cheaper stuff like Carbo Load, like anybody can afford that. And of course, use our code think. It'll get you 10% off. They really kicked up. It used to only be 5%. that now you get 10% off if you use the code and it throws some money our way too so it definitely helps the podcast out a ton might be a buck here and there but you know if you guys all use the code it definitely adds up and you have been using the code so thank you for that let's get back to the podcast but thank you for uh hanging out with me here in the home gym
>> what's up Dave
>> very quick one have you seen a trend in I mean obviously there's probably going to be about a 10 50% margin on dosing because it will be quite I would have thought dosing would be quite variable but have you seen any trends in the quality of drugs in general? So obviously more recently there's been raw shortages uh coming out of China.
>> So have you seen an increase in incorrectly labeled or incorrectly dosed drugs more recently than you had say the previous 12 months? Have you seen patterns like that where there's a because I would imagine and it did I don't know if this is particularly just down to you. I mean obviously you are a large operation but for a while we we we've sort of seen in general from user feedback we we've had a fairly stable market when it came to quality of drugs. Drugs seem to be reasonably good.
>> Yeah.
>> Generally speaking decent quality well dosed and then obviously with the shortages things seem to have gone arry again. Prior to that, quality of drugs seem to be in the bin.
>> Yeah. Has that changed?
>> Yeah. Have you So, have you seen any trends in that in waves in sort of, you know, it's gone really bad for a while and and then it's good for a while or
>> Yeah. Well, given the time we've been around, we've seen a couple of couple of times when the quality of drugs went down or availability changed. But to put it mildly, and excuse my French, in the past couple of months, it went completely down the shitta, if I may.
>> No, no, you're fair enough by
>> Yes.
>> Uh I' I've never uh I've never seen it been as bad as it is now, where we're testing a lot of raw powders that turn out to be anything but steroids. We we we're see we're seeing a lot of vitamin tocoperro acetate, which is vitamin E, being sold as steroids. We're seeing paracetamol being sold as I don't know what oxandrolone we're see we're getting hundreds of raw powder samples that turn out to not be steroids at all.
>> Wow.
>> Like we get we get we get an order of 20 samples of 20 powders and not a single one of them turn out to be a steroid. So it's never been as bad as this. Everyone's pretty desperate to find some source of the raw material materials. And then there's a lot of places, a lot of people who don't test or who might have gotten I I I'm hypotizing here, but they might have gotten 10 bags of something. Three bags turned out well and seven didn't, but they didn't know because they tested only one of them.
>> And then they make tablets out of that or they make oils out of that. And then we we're seeing oils or tablets that don't contain nothing at all. So yeah. Yeah. What we're seeing right now with the anabolic steroids where it's it's complete mayhem. Uh we've never seen it as bad as as it is right now. The raw materials there's real scarcity at this moment that's been getting worse and worse. Uh so so so the development in the past couple of months I I would say it's it might be roughly a year it's getting worse and worse.
>> Wow. Yeah. We've been excuse me we've been watching that whole progression along the way and we've been trying to track down like exactly what's going on. You know we've heard all sorts of stories about this precursor isn't available. We've heard stories of that a lot of places in China are getting shut down raw producers. Have you had any kind of insight um into what the big change was all about?
>> I do have a I do have a rather good idea. Uh it's been mostly that particular people in China had been arrested that been involved with the biggest anabolic manufacturing plant and a lot of people went down with them. So everybody's pretty anxious about starting manufacturer uh keeping warehouses and that I I I I I won't be putting out names but it's both been caused by
>> a single major arrest that led to many uh arrests in China.
>> Wow. Okay. They that's some news for us Dave because we we didn't we didn't know that. We've been trying to dig into this and and find out. But I know that you know having followed you and paid attention to things you you know the work you've done I've heard you say that US is your number one market then China where everything's being created is number two. Um you know what what kind of changes are you seeing there? Are you saying like that some of the raw powders that they're directly sending out are are coming back as bad from the source or are you saying more that like the things that are faked or underdosed are people that received the raw powder and then send it to you? Well, we used to get a whole lot of raw powders directly from China from the manufacturers or distributors and that sort of stopped the most of the anabolic steroid samples from China. They simply stopped coming.
>> So what we're where we're getting most of the anabolic steroid samples is anywhere but China. So basically our anabolic steroid orders or analyzis orders from China let's say they drop to 5 to 10% of what they used to be
>> compared to a year or two ago.
>> Yeah. Which is huge considering the amount of work you guys are doing now? Um I mean we're are you seeing any anybody else pick up this slack like Turkey, India? Are there any labs in other countries that are So nobody's stepped up to the market yet. Huh.
>> Exactly. There's been there's been no influx from manufacturers from any other country so far.
>> Wow, this sounds bleak, Dave.
>> Quick legal question if you don't mind. Um,
>> in the UK, obviously the law around steroids is a bit unusual. Testing samples provided by a private individual is no problem. Perfectly legal. That can be done easily over here. where it gets tricky and this is the bit that I found interesting. There would be a potential viewpoint here that if you were receiving RAW from a manufacturer that you could be implemented in supporting the supply has that been do you have any legal gray areas around actually receiving the raw powders or is that just it's fine it's because because of the volume of the sample is quite small.
>> Well the volume of the sample is quite small. We don't we don't need a lot of sample for the testing
>> and the law here we we we have the paperwork for unlimited import export handling and everything of this.
>> So if I wanted to import 50 tons of trend right here right now there would be no legal way to stop us from doing so.
>> We of course we of course don't abuse the system because we want to keep the relationships with the authorities
>> as as as as good as possible. We we we don't screw around like that, but technically the paperwork we have is completely unlimited in every possible regard.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. I know that the it was never tested, so no one knew if it would really be, but the general consensus was if you started receiving raw as a testing lab here that they would implement you in supporting the supply.
>> Ah, no. No such thing over here. We receive a whole lot of raw materials. So here and there a simple mistake like instead of sending one gram of the sample we receive like one kilo.
>> It happens here and there and the customs they know because all our mail we we received with a lot of scheduled chemicals.
>> Yeah.
>> And the customs they check each and every mail of us and we need to declare it properly so they know exactly what we're important. uh because we need to keep the evidence of u import uh getting rid of the samples, archavation, etc., etc. So, we do produce roughly 10,000 pages of paperwork a week.
>> Oh god.
>> Thank god you have like 30 people on staff because that doesn't sound like the fun part of the job.
>> That that certainly isn't. I've got one more one more question um on on the uh the issue with RAWs currently. How common is it to see like a pristine primo sample and master and ethic? Because I'm seeing those as being the two most difficult ones to get. And from my end of things, I'm seeing a lot of labs that aren't carrying it. I'm seeing labs that are doubling their pricing. I'm seeing labs also that are saying, "Hey, there's no problem. and we're going to sell it to you at the same price it's always been which definitely raises my eyebrow.
>> Well, there's this major issue with the fact we don't know what most of the anabolic state samples are supposed to be. We we push people strongly towards sending those blind. So, we don't know if the oil was supposed to be 32 migram test propionate or 100 primo. But we we can guess that it's was not supposed to be the 30 migram test P. But uh so for most of the samples we don't know we don't want to know what it's supposed to be because if we don't know it in and we tell the people it increases you know the trust in our work.
>> Yeah.
>> And but generally we're seeing the primo and must their fate a lot less than one would assume.
>> Okay. Um, I mean I I I I like to tell this story a lot, but your biggest risk of getting fake primo is getting those uh those cool tiny rhymable and amps from buyer. If you're getting those, you you're putting yourself in a huge risk of getting cooking oil in a while in an expensive ampule.
>> Okay.
>> So, a lot of those we're seeing, they contain nothing but oil inside. So that's that's an interesting tidbit of what we've seen. But generally the mast and primal oils they're not faked more than other oils. Uh of course there's a bias if the people are already sending the the samples to us then they're the people who know that there's possibility of testing stuff then the the people who can use the internet to Google to look for the reviewed sources. So there's a bias that we what we're seeing is cream of the crop. You know, we're not we're not going to get an oil being sold in some back alley which
>> uh so there's a huge bias in this. So we're seeing cream of the crop but from what we're seeing the mast and primal oils they're not faked more than anything than any other stuff.
>> Okay. And that's assuming that Yeah. So that makes sense as long as that's what they're in. If I'm sending you something and you tell me, "Hey, you got 250 milligrams test sip on the nose, but I'm saying, "Oh, man, that was supposed to be primo." That's that's another story, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We we we we don't we only want samples to be labeled by numbers like 1 2 3 A B C D F. We don't care. The the the less we know about the sample, the sample name, the manufacturer, the batch, the less typing there is for us when issuing the report. So,
>> all right.
>> One one last question, too, is you know, what's what's one thing that you wish the steroid using community knew about, you know, basically doing the things that we do, using the things that we use uh to to reach our goals in bodybuilding. When it comes to peeds,
>> well, what I'd like to tell people is that you only got one health, so stay as safe as possible and really consider what what you're doing. Uh what's necessary, etc. Just there's there's you can always do more anabolics later on, but you can save up health once you screw it up. And the simpler you keep stuff, the better for you. And also I'm a huge I'm a huge fan of not touching anything that doesn't have at least 40 years of medical research on human uh you know the testosterone uh human growth hormone even insulin. They're extremely well researched
>> compounds. Uh people know exactly what happens when you use them etc etc. What risks they carry. Uh they're like they're well-known compounds, but in every field in bodybuilding especially, you get new compounds popping up every year that's supposed to do something interesting and cool. But those molecules are not studied. The people cannot know what really are the long-term effects of doing that. what unressearched stories might be the most worrisome trend I'm seeing in every community around is that they hop on every new stuff and they don't consider the risk so risk so with anabolic steroids that are well researched if you really do need to use them to achieve your goals just stay as reasonable and as safe as possible for people like the risk of you uh getting random liver or kidney cancer from testosterone or stuff like that are almost nil but uh getting it from research compound something something uh I don't want to mention any names but there are some well-known ones that uh people suspect of being pretty risky in this regard.
>> Yeah.
>> So basically don't try to reinvent the wheel. Just stay as safe as possible. Oh, I I I I don't feel very I don't feel like I should be advising people too much. I I I just give it to give them data they have available. But a lot of of often times I see people doing really on the internet. I keep try to keep in touch in the community and I see people doing very worrisome stuff which they could fix uh in ways that are not as risky towards their health or or anything.
>> Yeah. Yeah, and that's a big message that we try to send home, too. Um, I if people are interested in getting testing, if they want to follow along with any work that you're putting out, what are the best ways to number one work with you and number two follow what you're doing, any releases that you have on reports and stuff like that?
>> Well, we don't really have a unified channel for communication with the people. We hope to have a new website soon, but it's been like going to hell and back again with trying to get an ehop running. Uh, but so far the best way to get in touch with us and do business is to simply mail us at infoedship.com. Uh, that's where we handle we have a we have a team of people handling the emails. So they they handle orders, they handle questions, they try to avoid as many questions as possible because we're not really qualified to provide advice on on cycles, on health stuff, especially not the mailbox girls. And we cannot a lot of people there ask us for recommendations on brands and everything.
>> Yeah, I bet that's a big one.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And we we we we try to tell them like no we really can't do that. You know what sort of a testing lab would advise if if if a testing lab is advising you is uh recommending someone that's a big red flag for me. That's like okay.
>> Yeah.
>> They're going to be it's there's like 95% that this uh lab is going to be associated with them. You see it all the time. There's a testing lab nobody ever heard of, but from out of nowhere some other lab, some lab manufacturer vendor, they pop up and all their testing is from this single lab nobody ever heard of.
>> So 100% every product,
>> you know.
>> Yeah, exactly.
>> I mean, I must admit
>> I won't recommend branding or anything like that in the coaching and stuff because it's like you say, you're guilty by association then.
>> Yeah, exactly. But You also lose your professionalism as a testing organization. It's like when we do the bloods, we don't recommend any brands. We'll recommend types of supplements to support health, but we won't recommend brands
>> because exactly
>> to me then if you're recommending a brand then people are going why you recommend that bend. Is it because you're getting paid by that brand to do that where I so I'd rather recommend the ingredients that make that product and then they can go and source the product they want.
>> Yeah. Not only is it very unprofessional given that these are scheduled compounds most of the time and everything it could put us in a leg league responsibility sort of situation. So I would like to avoid it too but the biggest part for me is it would be unprofessional.
>> Send it my way. I'll deal with I'll deal with that cycle questions.
>> Well, thank you for taking the time to hang out with us, man. We understand that you're super busy over there. Uh this has been extremely insightful, man, and we both really appreciate it. and I'm sure that our listeners are going to appreciate it too.
>> Well, thank you too. It's been a great pleasure talking with you.
>> Okay,
>> guys, we've got uh Peter Magic here from Janoshik. Head over, get everything tested, be safe, and uh for another episode of the podcast with Dave Crosslin. I'm Scott McN. We'll see you soon. [Music]
RoidyNoob
Member
I know right? Taking the wrong thing can permanently fuck you up. For life. We seriously arent conscious enough in here.
Putting insulin in there is straight homocide.
RoidyNoob
Member
Damn. There it is.PSA: Fake mounjaro KwikPen strongly suspect of containing insulin glargine.
RoidyNoob
Member
Bruh...
dinfar1337
New Member
you know, ive always been scared of putitng my $ dollars orders in.
its not that im particularly scared of getting scammed, but what the source might do to silence me that i got scammed.
imagine someone like sigma audley, nitpicking thousand dollars orders in the high ends. and just ending up sending fentanyl.
its so crazy to think you're giving them the power to end your life right there, they'll forget you. they got their money for little fentanyl. and you are silenced forever.
even if im not sending all my gear to janoshik, im sampling it all now at my work to confirm what it is. not anything fancy just confirming its steroids and not something else.
i think this is probably the deepest thought i've shared on meso till date.
Stealth500
Member
There's no profit driven reason to switch insulin for tirzepitide and ruin a company's sales and reputation when a 15mg vial of tirz cost 6-9 dollars. Sounds like fear mongering.
ve79
Member
This is stuff we already know. We all know if you been around long enough is everything comes full circle. There will be other manufacturers that will pop up
dinfar1337
New Member
i hardly felt like this were for noobs who only know these youtube channels
It benefits Lilly. Maybe they’ve hired people to flood the market with shit like this to try to destroy gray markets reputation.
Stealth500
Member
urmumsurdad30
Member
Too long, didnt read. Beat my meat instead.
gainslol
Member
Thanks for letting us other men know. You may have better luck on grindr.
BigTomJ
Member
This is absolutely ridiculous.
Don't do this again.
If you want to have AI do a summary and share it share the chat link or put it in a pastebin.
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