Am I dumb for hopping on?

[crisjr02]

For context, I am 6'4, 23 years old, 80kg/176lbs and around 16% body fat. I am a personal trainer and have been training on and off for about 7 years, began taking my training seriously about 2 years ago. Growing up i was a fat kid, i lost the weight around the age of 16, but this was through poor habits i.e, starving myself, ridiculous amounts of cardio, not tracking macros or protein etc. I became pretty lean but of course lost alot of muscle

Last year i went on a dirty bulk because i was insecure about being too "skinny", i took myself up to 100kg/220lbs at around maybe 30% bodyfat, perhaps more. I then began to cut moderately, focused on hitting protein targets, resistance training 4-5 times per week, high intensity and that has gotten me to where i am now. I am currently running reta 2mg per week for the last couple of weeks of my cut to help maintain the lean mass i currently have

I regularly check my health markers and everything is fine. my bloods came back yesterday and the doctor told me everything is optimal. My test is currently sitting at 21.1 nmol/L and last time i had my free testosterone checked it was sitting at 399.6 pmol/L. I'm averaging 8-9 hours sleep at night, i track every single thing i eat and have my diet on point, my training is on point of course.

I'm thinking of running 300ml test a week for about 8-12 weeks, check bloods again, then maybe bumping that up to about 500ml test a week and perhaps 3-4 iu of HGH daily. My reason being is I obviously love my training as i have dedicated my life to it, and believe compounds will only make my training more enjoyable, i also am very insecure of my size, given my height it is very difficult for me to fill my frame out, and also of course given my career (personal training and nutrition) correct use of PEDs will only further benefit my career. My question is, does this sound stupid, am i being young and naive, and would now be the best time to hop on or am i better waiting till i have gotten to about 12% bodyfat and reverse dieted my way out of my current deficit (which is currently 500 kcals below maintenance, not including any extra kcals burned through reta)

DISCLAIMER: I have a very reliable source who is trustworthy and also coaches some high profile athletes, i may consider coaching if necessary but am just looking for different opinions and any advice worth taking on board, thank you for your time and again any advice would be much appreciated!

 

[Matthewwilliam87]

Keep up the good work bro and good post I’m new here and trying to learn how to keep track of everything like you and I’m lost lol but sounds like ur on ur way .

 

[BatmanVAR]

6'4 176 pounds at 16% bodyfat is borderline malnourished. I mean I'm only exaggerating slightly, but you likely don't have very much muscle at all. You need to develop a solid foundation of muscle before you consider gear.

 

[rxzed]

For context, I am 6'4, 23 years old, 80kg/176lbs and around 16% body fat. I am a personal trainer and have been training on and off for about 7 years, began taking my training seriously about 2 years ago. Growing up i was a fat kid, i lost the weight around the age of 16, but this was through poor habits i.e, starving myself, ridiculous amounts of cardio, not tracking macros or protein etc. I became pretty lean but of course lost alot of muscle

Last year i went on a dirty bulk because i was insecure about being too "skinny", i took myself up to 100kg/220lbs at around maybe 30% bodyfat, perhaps more. I then began to cut moderately, focused on hitting protein targets, resistance training 4-5 times per week, high intensity and that has gotten me to where i am now. I am currently running reta 2mg per week for the last couple of weeks of my cut to help maintain the lean mass i currently have

I regularly check my health markers and everything is fine. my bloods came back yesterday and the doctor told me everything is optimal. My test is currently sitting at 21.1 nmol/L and last time i had my free testosterone checked it was sitting at 399.6 pmol/L. I'm averaging 8-9 hours sleep at night, i track every single thing i eat and have my diet on point, my training is on point of course.

I'm thinking of running 300ml test a week for about 8-12 weeks, check bloods again, then maybe bumping that up to about 500ml test a week and perhaps 3-4 iu of HGH daily. My reason being is I obviously love my training as i have dedicated my life to it, and believe compounds will only make my training more enjoyable, i also am very insecure of my size, given my height it is very difficult for me to fill my frame out, and also of course given my career (personal training and nutrition) correct use of PEDs will only further benefit my career. My question is, does this sound stupid, am i being young and naive, and would now be the best time to hop on or am i better waiting till i have gotten to about 12% bodyfat and reverse dieted my way out of my current deficit (which is currently 500 kcals below maintenance, not including any extra kcals burned through reta)

DISCLAIMER: I have a very reliable source who is trustworthy and also coaches some high profile athletes, i may consider coaching if necessary but am just looking for different opinions and any advice worth taking on board, thank you for your time and again any advice would be much appreciated!

This is a question you have to answer yourself. At the end of the day it all boils down to risk tolerance. The healthier your baseline is before starting, the better of course, but again, that something you have to consider. Given you've put this much thought into it, I'm assuming you are already aware of the risks that coincide.

 

[juicebro]

I started around the same age and I've never regretted it. You're a man and men make their own decisions.

 

[crisjr02]

6'4 176 pounds at 16% bodyfat is borderline malnourished. I mean I'm only exaggerating slightly, but you likely don't have very much muscle at all. You need to develop a solid foundation of muscle before you consider gear.

I have just updated the post with some recent physique photos

 

[crisjr02]

I started around the same age and I've never regretted it. You're a man and men make their own decisions.

While that is true, this is also a potentially life changing decision and i would appreciate some advice from men who are older than me and have more knowledge and experience with PEDs

 

[crisjr02]

Keep up the good work bro and good post I’m new here and trying to learn how to keep track of everything like you and I’m lost lol but sounds like ur on ur way .

Thank you brother

 

[BigDadd7]

You look leaner than 16

 

[BatmanVAR]

I have just updated the post with some recent physique photos

You have decent arms but you don't have much size overall. And there are no pictures of your legs. So I stand by my original comment.

Also you're probably a bit leaner than 16%

 

[adrenalytic]

For context, I am 6'4, 23 years old, 80kg/176lbs and around 16% body fat. I am a personal trainer and have been training on and off for about 7 years, began taking my training seriously about 2 years ago. Growing up i was a fat kid, i lost the weight around the age of 16, but this was through poor habits i.e, starving myself, ridiculous amounts of cardio, not tracking macros or protein etc. I became pretty lean but of course lost alot of muscle

Last year i went on a dirty bulk because i was insecure about being too "skinny", i took myself up to 100kg/220lbs at around maybe 30% bodyfat, perhaps more. I then began to cut moderately, focused on hitting protein targets, resistance training 4-5 times per week, high intensity and that has gotten me to where i am now. I am currently running reta 2mg per week for the last couple of weeks of my cut to help maintain the lean mass i currently have

I regularly check my health markers and everything is fine. my bloods came back yesterday and the doctor told me everything is optimal. My test is currently sitting at 21.1 nmol/L and last time i had my free testosterone checked it was sitting at 399.6 pmol/L. I'm averaging 8-9 hours sleep at night, i track every single thing i eat and have my diet on point, my training is on point of course.

I'm thinking of running 300ml test a week for about 8-12 weeks, check bloods again, then maybe bumping that up to about 500ml test a week and perhaps 3-4 iu of HGH daily. My reason being is I obviously love my training as i have dedicated my life to it, and believe compounds will only make my training more enjoyable, i also am very insecure of my size, given my height it is very difficult for me to fill my frame out, and also of course given my career (personal training and nutrition) correct use of PEDs will only further benefit my career. My question is, does this sound stupid, am i being young and naive, and would now be the best time to hop on or am i better waiting till i have gotten to about 12% bodyfat and reverse dieted my way out of my current deficit (which is currently 500 kcals below maintenance, not including any extra kcals burned through reta)

DISCLAIMER: I have a very reliable source who is trustworthy and also coaches some high profile athletes, i may consider coaching if necessary but am just looking for different opinions and any advice worth taking on board, thank you for your time and again any advice would be much appreciated!

Bro you are a personal trainer? Hopefully for crossfit or something because you are small as shit. You have no business taking steroids yet. You need to build some natty muscle first. All steroids are going to do is puff you up with water. You might gain a little tissue but it will be gone as soon as your cycle ends.

You're in the prime of your natural test production years. You should be nowhere near hypogonadal. If you can't build muscle naturally it's because your intensity is shit, your routine is shit or (less likely) your genetics are shit. Or some combination of the three.

 

[crisjr02]

You have decent arms but you don't have much size overall. And there are no pictures of your legs. So I stand by my original comment.

Also you're probably a bit leaner than 16%

I definitely have alot of work to do regarding my shoulders, chest, and back. I get complimented for my legs pretty often but they are nowhere near where i want them to be. 16% was an overestimate, if i was being fair on myself i'd say just below 15%. Would you say i'm probably better off finishing my cut, lean bulking naturally then re-evaluating after?

 

[crisjr02]

You look leaner than 16

probably just below 15% but safer to over-estimate than under

 

[BatmanVAR]

I definitely have alot of work to do regarding my shoulders, chest, and back. I get complimented for my legs pretty often but they are nowhere near where i want them to be. 16% was an overestimate, if i was being fair on myself i'd say just below 15%. Would you say i'm probably better off finishing my cut, lean bulking naturally then re-evaluating after?

I wouldn't cut any more. I would bulk until you've added at least 20 pounds (if not more) of lean mass at the same bodyfat level and then re-evaluate.

 

[crisjr02]

Bro you are a personal trainer? Hopefully for crossfit or something because you are small as shit. You have no business taking steroids yet. You need to build some natty muscle first. All steroids are going to do is puff you up with water. You might gain a little tissue but it will be gone as soon as your cycle ends.

You're in the prime of your natural test production years. You should be nowhere near hypogonadal. If you can't build muscle naturally it's because your intensity is shit, your routine is shit or (less likely) your genetics are shit. Or some combination of the three.

I am a thai boxing instructor and fat loss coach to be more accurate

 

[BatmanVAR]

Definitely would not bulk in my current state, my abs have only just became barley visible

Gotcha, so you came here for advice but you're dismissing what we're telling you. Best of luck.

 

[marsupial]

You’re too young and lack any meaningful muscle tissue to benefit from steroids. You should stop all drugs and train natty. Whether you want to bulk or cut I think is up to you seeing that you’re not dangerously massive or dying of starvation, but just dedicate yourself to either/or, and make sure to eat super clean

Also make sure to have realistic expectations. You being that tall + not responding super amazingly to natty training is already sort of working against you, so you’ve got an uphill battle of sorts. But on the other hand, you’ve also theoretically got a higher ceiling than most guys seeing that you’re that tall, but will probably just take more time and effort

 

[marsupial]

Bro you are a personal trainer? Hopefully for crossfit or something because you are small as shit. You have no business taking steroids yet. You need to build some natty muscle first. All steroids are going to do is puff you up with water. You might gain a little tissue but it will be gone as soon as your cycle ends.

You're in the prime of your natural test production years. You should be nowhere near hypogonadal. If you can't build muscle naturally it's because your intensity is shit, your routine is shit or (less likely) your genetics are shit. Or some combination of the three.

To be honest, genetics are likely working against him here quite a bit. At that height + the fact that he did bulk up and then cut, and still doesn’t have much muscle tissue even considering his current body fat level all mean that he’s gonna have to put in a lot of effort to build muscle natty. He should still hop off the drugs asap and do that though.

 

[Trainedbytylerlofthouse19]

Delts, upper chest and posing need work.. Other than that great job

 

[Trainedbytylerlofthouse19]

Start taking 300gram protein a day minimum, 80g fats then fill rest of your calories with carbs around training..

Drugs or not with great intensity in the gym that will add muscle to your frame.. And lean..

What does your training actually look like? Also well done for posting pics