Reintroduction and advice.

[Champion7164]

I wanted to take the time to reintroduce myself, before I ask for advice, as my first introduction was shit. First and foremost, tits, circa girls gone wild 2002. I had to torrent the vid for research purposes to take a screen grab. Pull it out Tren bros.

About me. 45-year-old male 5’6” 200 lbs., Smart scale says body fat is 19.8%. Fairly lean except for my gut and leftover bitch tits. I’ve been on a yearlong cut at a calorie deficit of at least 600 calories or more, thanks to the magic of Retatrutide 6mg Mon/Thurs. I started at 290 lbs so the journey has been successful thus far. OMAD and Keto with sushi being my cheat meal once a week. Macros were not strict, tried to get in as much protein as possible chugging up to 3 protein shakes a day because I did not have the stomach for more than one large meal. Was just dieting for about 10 months and hit a wall, started doing zone 2 cardio on a marketplace treadmill (broke 3 weeks later) 5 days a week for 30-45 min. I got on TRT in Aug 25 of 160 mg/week. Numbers started at 254 and now stabilized at Testosterone, Total (MS/LC-MS): 1011 ng/dL and Testosterone, Free (Dialysis method): 293.9 pg/mL, E2 at 52. I feel pretty good at these numbers. I also went down the rabbit hole of peptides and added these. KLOW, Reta, NAD+, SS-31 and Mots-C. Honestly feeling better than ever, brain fog is gone, energy is up, I don’t procrastinate as much and haven’t touched coffee in months. Here is when Meso comes into the picture. I’m done overpaying for telehealth test, hit up the ULG, restocked my test, bought some Primo & HGH. I had some chronic blood pressure issues. Dr’s prescriptions were not cutting it after 3 years. Started digging into what I could do. @Ghoul showed me the light, got my meds in order and sitting at 110/66 down from 137/87. Toying around with the thoughts of a lean bulk, why not? Primo seems to be the hot thing and can help with E2, dry gains etc. How about some HGH? Again, Ghoul taught me about IGF-1 and Z scale numbers. Won’t be growing a dick off the end of my nose. I should get my test and natural IGF-1 number before building a mild cycle. Found some great sources for blood test, GoodLabs was about $30 more out of pocket after insurance and cover way more than the 4 markers my Dr. was ordering. Got hooked up with 20% referral and was good to go.

Here are my proposed macros:
TDEE 1942
Target: 2020 Calories | 225g Protein | 72g Fat | ~118g Net Carbs
30 carbs from Greek yoghurt 1 hr before workout
80 carbs from 2 large bananas + protein shake
Try to stomach 1lb of Aldi Carnitas Pork or Birria Beef in a bowl /w topping to hit my fat macros.
I under eat this for sure, so I try to get in 2-3 protein shakes a day. Not the best way of getting protein but better than nothing.

Cycle:
I started 2UI HGH morning and night (1 week), received my Blood work and I am naturally sitting at IGF-1: 408 ng/mL, and Z-Score (Male): +2.5. I am adjusting down to 1UI HGH in the morning. My HGH stash went from 1 year to 3 years.

Test 200mg, Primo 150mg Weekly. Mon/Wed/Friday 1UI HGH daily morning.
Seeing Primo's least effective dose is around 150mg, I bumped up my test base so I don’t crash my E2. 1UI HGH morning for fasted cardio. I did not titrate up, no numbness in the hands, I get more deep sleep. Only side effect so far is sometimes I get exhausted during the day and take an hour nap. (this was on 4UI).

Workout:
Just built out a modest basement gym. All I have is an Air Bike, Rower, adjustable dumbbells and a bench. I run a 4-day upper/lower for the long recovery period. I haven’t lifted and logged a workout in probably 15-20 years. I’m 4 weeks into it. I know I probably should start gear after months of consistent training.

MONDAY – UPPER A

Exercise	Sets × Reps
Flat Dumbbell Bench Press	4 × 8–12
One-Arm Dumbbell Row	4 × 8–12 / arm
Seated Dumbbell Overhead Press	4 × 8–12
Dumbbell Flyes (Flat Bench)	3 × 10–15
Dumbbell Lateral Raises	3 × 12–15
Dumbbell Rear Delt Flyes	3 × 12–15
Standing Dumbbell Curls	3 × 10–15
Overhead Dumbbell Tricep Extension	3 × 10–15
Dumbbell Shrugs	4 × 12–15

TUESDAY – LOWER A

Exercise	Sets × Reps
Dumbbell Goblet Squat	4 × 8–12
Dumbbell Romanian Deadlift	4 × 8–12
Bulgarian Split Squat	4 × 8–12 / leg
Dumbbell Step-Ups (Bench)	3 × 10–12
Nordic Hamstring Curls	3 × 6–10 (Tempo 5–8 sec)
Dumbbell Glute Bridges / Hip Thrusts	3 × 12–15
Dumbbell Calf Raises	4 × 12–20

THURSDAY – UPPER B

Exercise	Sets × Reps
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press (30–45°)	4 × 8–12
One-Arm Dumbbell Row	4 × 8–12
Standing Dumbbell Overhead Press	4 × 8–12
Dumbbell Pullovers	3 × 10–15
Dumbbell Lateral Raises	3 × 12–15
Dumbbell Rear Delt Flyes	3 × 12–15
Concentration Curls	3 × 10–15
Dumbbell Tricep Kickbacks	3 × 12–15
Dumbbell Shrugs	3 × 12–15

FRIDAY – LOWER B

Exercise	Sets × Reps
Dumbbell Front Squat	4 × 10–12
Single-Leg Romanian Deadlift	4 × 8–12 / leg
Reverse Lunges	3 × 10–12 / leg
Dumbbell Sumo Deadlift	3 × 8–12
Nordic Hamstring Curls	3 × 6–10 (Tempo 5–8 sec)
Dumbbell Glute Kickbacks	3 × 12–15 / leg
Dumbbell Seated Calf Raises	4 × 12–20

Blood work:
Latest blood work on 1/5/26 is my baseline of 160 mg/week test. Retesting in 8 weeks as I am strictly on UGL gear. AI assisted.

The Top 5 Highlights (What Pops Out Most)

1. High Estradiol (E2) – 55 pg/mL (normal ≤29) → Almost 2× upper limit. Main driver of your high IGF-1 and likely any subtle "wet" sides (bloating, mood, etc.).
2. High IGF-1 – 408 ng/mL, Z-score +2.5 (normal 52–328, Z -2.0 to +2.0) → Strongly elevated (good for gains/recovery), but mostly because of the high E2. You're already in enhanced territory without any GH.
3. High Free Testosterone – 293.9 pg/mL (normal 35–155) → Nearly 2× upper limit. Explains strong muscle/strength response, but also fuels the high E2 and lipid issues.
4. Lipid Imbalance
   • HDL: 32 mg/dL (low, should be ≥40)
   • LDL: 152 mg/dL (high, should be <100)
   • Chol/HDL Ratio: 6.4 (high, should be <5) → Classic gear pattern: Test suppresses good cholesterol and raises bad. Biggest CV watch item.
5. Low Omega-3 Index – 3.1% (optimal ≥5.5%) → Very low EPA/DHA, maxed AA/EPA ratio (40.8). High inflammation risk—fish oil will fix this fast.

Full labs attached.

Thoughts:
I know I’m too fat to start gear. You want to see sub 15%, I get it. I think my numbers look good on the mg of test I am on. Do I need to add Primo? Probably not, but the dry slow gains are what I am after. I believe these are modest numbers for TRT+. I do plan on dropping to 200mg/100mg/1UI for long term treatment for as long as I can. The savings from UGL I am reallocating to blood work quarterly.

Where are the holes in this plan? I continue to soak up as much information I can and adjust accordingly. I could be retarded, need to be called out. I’m just a dad wanting to keep up with my 3-year-old and wanting to get and keep in shape .Maybe a vet will help a noob out, I did post vintage tits…

 

[adrenalytic]

Smart scale says body fat is 19.8%.

Smart scales are not smart. Weight is about the only thing you can trust on those things.

Retatrutide 6mg Mon/Thurs.

Like 6 mg split into 3 mg? or you already on max effective dose of 12mg?

Was just dieting for about 10 months and hit a wall

to be expected. Prolonged dieting can do more harm than good. General rule is you need to be off as long as you were on to restore baseline metabolic rate and thyroid function. Applies less to obese people.

110/66 down from 137/87

Nice job.

oying around with the thoughts of a lean bulk, why not?

You already said why not. You're overweight.

Primo seems to be the hot thing and can help with E2, dry gains etc.

This varies user to user. If you don't know your response you can't reliably know how it will affect your E2

How about some HGH?

Great for recomping.

I started 2UI HGH morning and night (1 week), received my Blood work and I am naturally sitting at IGF-1: 408 ng/mL,

Unless I'm reading this wrong, you started rHGH then got tested? That's not a natural baseline.

Test 200mg, Primo 150mg Weekly.

So you're going from 160mg to 200 and calling it a cycle?

Seeing Primo's least effective dose is around 150mg

Source?

I know I probably should start gear after months of consistent training.

Try years but that ship has already sailed apparently.

High Estradiol (E2) – 55 pg/mL (normal ≤29) → Almost 2× upper limit. Main driver of your high IGF-1 and likely any subtle "wet" sides (bloating, mood, etc.).

This is high in the context of you being on only 160mg/wk. Otherwise, that is not a high E2 for someone who is enhanced and using a moderate amount of test (400+)

High IGF-1 – 408 ng/mL, Z-score +2.5 (normal 52–328, Z -2.0 to +2.0) → Strongly elevated (good for gains/recovery), but mostly because of the high E2. You're already in enhanced territory without any GH.

It's fine to run high IGF-1 on blast. Acromegaly takes time to manifest. After cycle just drop back down or come off completely to return to baseline for while. It's the guys that have z score >3 year round that run into trouble.

LDL: 152 mg/dL (high, should be <100)

That is disgustingly high LDL for someone on your dose. Get that taken care of asap. Diet and supplements is where I would look first and if you have genetic predisposition just get on ezetimibe or pitavastatin or both.

How long has your LDL been like this? do you have pre-exogenous test numbers? This is the #1 killer and should be at the top of your to-do list before even dreaming about more gear.

ou want to see sub 15%, I get it.

No, you don't.

I think my numbers look good on the mg of test I am on.

No, they're not.

Do I need to add Primo?

No.

Probably not, but the dry slow gains are what I am after

150mg of primo will do nothing if you're not already very lean. You won't get the primo look being fat.

Where are the holes in this plan?

See above and here's one more.

This might be hard to hear but you're 45 and seem to have an issue with impulse control similar to that of which we see from some of the teens that come on here asking for advice. This is not meant to insult but rather an observation and warning. I would take this into consideration when using large amounts of gear. They can amplify some personality disorders in people that may seem otherwise benign.

I did post vintage tits…

I can't help but wonder how saggy them tiddys are these days

Aging sucks for everyone but especially for women ...time is not kind.


BTW, great introduction and welcome to Meso.

 

[the_pope]

Yeah, I think you should have lost more weight before jumping on gear. At least you're on low doses. I wouldn't recommend a lean bulk until you've reached your weight goal. Also smart scales suck for body fat estimation.

The most worrying thing is your LDL tho. If I were you, I'd get statins to get it under 100 (assuming your diet is clean, if not, clean your diet).

 

[Champion7164]

Smart scales are not smart. Weight is about the only thing you can trust on those things.

Skin fold caliper landed yesterday because I know the smart scale sucks.
Jackson/Pollock 3: Chest 14mm, Abdominal 17, Thigh: 11 Body Fat %: 14.40 Lbs/Kgs of Body Fat: 29.51 Lean Body Weight: 175.49
Jackson/Pollock 4:Abdominal 17, Thigh: 11, Tricep 12, Suprailiac 14 Body Fat %: 15.72 Lbs/Kgs of Body Fat: 32.23 Lean Body Weight: 172.77
I'm having a hard time trusting this either.

Like 6 mg split into 3 mg? or you already on max effective dose of 12mg?

12mg split Mon/Thurs. I've been on this dose for 6 months. Started on Sema and when my coupon ran out I started digging into peptides. I was chasing that appetite and food noise suppression, which I now know Reta is weaker in that category, but I found my sweet spot. I could probably honestly lower it.

This varies user to user. If you don't know your response you can't reliably know how it will affect your E2

Digging into this a bit more I am learning Primo is not acting like an AI with benefits, but masking the side effects. This has to be a huge misconception for new users. That's the only reason I was running it, mainly for E2 control while getting "safe" and slow dry gains. Am I correct in this thought?

Unless I'm reading this wrong, you started rHGH then got tested? That's not a natural baseline.

Now finding out Test, E2 can effect natural Z score numbers. I just did not dig into it that much, just knew I wanted blood work to be at or under 3 Z score. Still only using 1UI am fasted.

"Seeing Primo's least effective dose is around 150mg"

Source?

I cannot exactly pinpoint this. Just searching for TRT+ /w Primo. Too many YouTube videos to count. I was more or less going on a % ratio. Some like 1:1, 2:1 test. I was trying to find a low dose happy medium. No sources to refer to.

That is disgustingly high LDL for someone on your dose. Get that taken care of asap. Diet and supplements is where I would look first and if you have genetic predisposition just get on ezetimibe or pitavastatin or both.

I am going to try and get my Dr. to prescribe Pitavastatin 2 mg plus Ezetimibe 10 biased on my Lipid panels. If not, I can source some Ezetimibe UGL.

This might be hard to hear but you're 45 and seem to have an issue with impulse control similar to that of which we see from some of the teens that come on here asking for advice. This is not meant to insult but rather an observation and warning. I would take this into consideration when using large amounts of gear. They can amplify some personality disorders in people that may seem otherwise benign

This is very much spot on, and I kind of knew this going in. Started with peptides, they actually had/have a profound positive effect on my health. I look forward to pinning because I “know” or “think” I am getting healthier. The community jumps from peptide to peptide looking for a quick fix. I am in the same boat, but have dialed it back. Just because I can rip it doesn’t mean I should. It’s a very slippery slope. With “TRT” it changed my life almost overnight. I had every low T symptom in the book. It was life changing once I got on. Chasing this feeling of I’m getting healthy; you go down this rabbit hole looking for answer to question you don’t even know how to ask or digest. You are afraid to sound dumb or be ridiculed online, so you ask for advice and receive bad and encouraging advice from AI. AI can be good if you know how to frame a question that you understand, but outside that it’s garbage. What I should do is back my test dose back to 160mg, drop Primo because it’s not going to do what I thought it would do, drop the HGH until I get my E2 in check so my Z score is “stable” and #1 get my LDL under 100. Then revisit. I am only 1 week in to my “cycle” so no harm no foul.

I have thought about this before, I have a friend once hooked on heroin, He would say the worst part of getting off is curing the sickness to be able to function was with more heroin and hatted pinning a dirty ass harpoon needle anywhere he could find a clean spot. Kind of a fucked-up thing to think about, and really not much different that what I am doing now.

Wanted to thank you for helping me better understand the questions I have to more intelligently go about my research.

I can't help but wonder how saggy them tiddys are these days

Aging sucks for everyone but especially for women ...time is not kind.

I would like to think these tittes aged better than the heavy hangers.