Small gains with a "Only AI cycle"?

[c.phantasy]

Hey guys,this will be my first post here at MESO so I will just give you a short introduction.

I´m a 21 yeared old healthy Swede who have been into strenght training for almost 4 years as of now. I´ve recently got into reading about steroids and such to get a better picture of the potentials they possess along with the side effects they can induce. I´m not taking any roids at the moment but I will plan to do so in the future.

Now. The main question I would like to ask you professionals.

I was wondering if there is "Theoretically" any kind of "AI" that you would recommend to a young healthy male that will results in small gains in either Muscle increase or fatburning?
Or more or less important "To combat the side effects of Testosteron @ to estrogen".

Ive been recommended Letrozole by a buddy of mine,but since Ivé read that Letro can cause Joint problems(since it reduces Estrogen by almost 98%) I would like to avoid it.

Is there anything at all you can recommend?

*I take full responsibility for my own actions*

 

[Sgt.Jarhead]

Hey guys,this will be my first post here at MESO so I will just give you a short introduction.

I´m a 21 yeared old healthy Swede who have been into strenght training for almost 4 years as of now. I´ve recently got into reading about steroids and such to get a better picture of the potentials they possess along with the side effects they can induce. I´m not taking any roids at the moment but I will plan to do so in the future.

Now. The main question I would like to ask you professionals.

I was wondering if there is "Theoretically" any kind of "AI" that you would recommend to a young healthy male that will results in small gains in either Muscle increase or fatburning?
Or more or less important "To combat the side effects of Testosteron @ to estrogen".

Ive been recommended Letrozole by a buddy of mine,but since Ivé read that Letro can cause Joint problems(since it reduces Estrogen by almost 98%) I would like to avoid it.

Is there anything at all you can recommend?

*I take full responsibility for my own actions*

Hello, Welcome to MESO RX

What are you goals for an AAS cycle?

*AI are used to reduce the conversion of Estrogen from using steroids which aromatize. It is also used to prevent gynecomastia, it does so by reducing Estrogen levels.

Do not use an AI for an AAS cycle, this could be potentially harmful and its not going to help you reach your goals.

 

[Bill Roberts]

Properly dosed letrozole reduces estrogen by only the desired amount.

It is not overly difficult to find the proper dose.

It is a myth that letrozole is uncontrollably powerful, annihilating estrogen with even the tiniest doses.

It is very possible for an individual to do better physique-wise with simply addition of a modest amount of anti-aromatase [edited]. This tends to be more the case with fat distribution than with muscle gain -- for example leaning out of the legs for a lifter who's not naturally particularly lean there -- but there is some muscle benefit. Not a great deal however, assuming that testosterone wasn't actually depressed in the first place.

And even then, the benefit will not be anything like a steroid cycle.

 

[MAYO]

Hello, Welcome to MESO RX

What are you goals for an AAS cycle?

*AI are used to reduce the conversion of Estrogen from using steroids which aromatize. It is also used to prevent gynecomastia, it does so by reducing Estrogen levels.

Do not use an AI for an AAS cycle, this could be potentially harmful and its not going to help you reach your goals.

Hey Sgt.
You say above "Do not use an AI for an AAS cycle" but you reccomend .05mgs E3D of Arimidex in the "First Run, Critiques Plz" thread for my cycle. Little confused...

 

[Sgt.Jarhead]

[/B]

Hey Sgt.
You say above "Do not use an AI for an AAS cycle" but you reccomend .05mgs E3D of Arimidex in the "First Run, Critiques Plz" thread for my cycle. Little confused...

I meant do not run an AI alone for an AAS cycle, from what I can gather he is not running any other compounds but an AI.

Don't worry MAYO, your cycle is dialed in from what I can recall. You could probably even go as low as .25mgs E3D, its just a matter of adjusting the dose, If your still experiencing sides, bump it up to 0.5mgs EOD, if sides disappear run it 0.5mgs E3D for maintenance.

Hope this clears everything up for you.

Sgt.

 

[MAYO]

Roger Sgt, wilco.

 

[c.phantasy]

Thanks for all replies!

Properly dosed letrozole reduces estrogen by only the desired amount.

It is not overly difficult to find the proper dose.

It is a myth that letrozole is uncontrollably powerful, annihilating estrogen with even the tiniest doses.

It is very possible for an individual to do better physique-wise with simply addition of a modest amount of estrogen. This tends to be more the case with fat distribution than with muscle gain -- for example leaning out of the legs for a lifter who's not naturally particularly lean there -- but there is some muscle benefit. Not a great deal however, assuming that testosterone wasn't actually depressed in the first place.

And even then, the benefit will not be anything like a steroid cycle.

Fat distribution is a major I want to combat.

What kind of Cycle would you recommend I should try with Letro?

 

[Bill Roberts]

Very simply, the amount that puts estradiol levels to low normal -- while ranges may vary according to the exact test used, typically this would be about 22 pg/mL or modestly above, but below 30.

A ballpark figure for a starting point is 0.36 mg/day, or a total of 2.5 mg/week in divided doses. Dosing could be every other day instead of daily.

It is best to actually have values measured.

I start with a triple dose on the first day of usage as a frontloading so that levels will be fairly near the steady-state: if this isn't done levels will climb slowly for at least a couple of weeks, which can make it harder to evaluate dose. E.g., too high a dose might appear to be too little for this reason, resulting in the user increasing the dose yet further, and then having joint pain, depression, or lack of libido.

 

[c.phantasy]

Very simply, the amount that puts estradiol levels to low normal -- while ranges may vary according to the exact test used, typically this would be about 22 pg/mL or modestly above, but below 30.

A ballpark figure for a starting point is 0.36 mg/day, or a total of 2.5 mg/week in divided doses. Dosing could be every other day instead of daily.

It is best to actually have values measured.

I start with a triple dose on the first day of usage as a frontloading so that levels will be fairly near the steady-state: if this isn't done levels will climb slowly for at least a couple of weeks, which can make it harder to evaluate dose. E.g., too high a dose might appear to be too little for this reason, resulting in the user increasing the dose yet further, and then having joint pain, depression, or lack of libido.

Thanks for the input BR. So by doing a standard cycle of Letro,I should try 0.36 mg/eod for some weeks and see how my body handles it. And on the first day I should overload with 0.36 x 3 = 1.08 mg?
Do you recommend Letrozole in liquid form or as Femara?.

Thanks yet again!

 

[LostTime]

Thanks for the input BR. So by doing a standard cycle of Letro,I should try 0.36 mg/eod for some weeks and see how my body handles it. And on the first day I should overload with 0.36 x 3 = 1.08 mg?
Do you recommend Letrozole in liquid form or as Femara?.

Thanks yet again!

Bill's example is given at .36mg ED, not EOD as you stated. Probably just a typo, but I wanted to point it out. .36 EOD would only be 1.26 mg/week.

 

[Bill Roberts]

Yes.

And it is best to actually check levels with a blood test, or if this is unaffordable then at least a salivary test.

If a salivary test is done there cannot be even the tiniest invisible trace of blood in the sample. Thus if there are any gum problems this won't work, nor even with no gum problems is it a acceptable to brush any time at all shortly before the sample.

Doing a 2-hormone test with a salivary test adds a little bit of a control measure, as if values are driven falsely high by presence of blood, this will happen with the other hormone as well.

Of course, blood in the sample cannot result in a falsely low reading, so at least that doesn't have to be worried about.

Precision with estrogen levels seems to be even more important long-term than was previously released. The latest edition of the Life Extension magazine reported data that among men already having chronic heart failure -- admittedly not our condition, I trust, but still a situation capable of showing that there can be an effect -- men with levels in the highest 20% of the group were 133% more likely to die within 3 years than those with levels between 21.8 and 30.1 pg/mL; while those with levels under 12.9 pg/mL were 317% more likely to die.

So proper estrogen levels can have a major effect on health.

There are other things that have been shown of course regarding benefits of optimal estrogen levels, but this is recent news on it.

Anyway, it helps show that one doesn't want to simply assume that levels aren't being driven too low. Although in the case of conservative and brief use, I'm not saying there's a significant health risk in making the assumption. The above is really in reference to planned chronic use.

 

[c.phantasy]

Bill's example is given at .36mg ED, not EOD as you stated. Probably just a typo, but I wanted to point it out. .36 EOD would only be 1.26 mg/week.

It was a Typo Thanks for noticing!

"Yes.

And it is best to actually check levels with a blood test, or if this is unaffordable then at least a salivary test.

If a salivary test is done there cannot be even the tiniest invisible trace of blood in the sample. Thus if there are any gum problems this won't work, nor even with no gum problems is it a acceptable to brush any time at all shortly before the sample.

Doing a 2-hormone test with a salivary test adds a little bit of a control measure, as if values are driven falsely high by presence of blood, this will happen with the other hormone as well.

Of course, blood in the sample cannot result in a falsely low reading, so at least that doesn't have to be worried about.

Precision with estrogen levels seems to be even more important long-term than was previously released. The latest edition of the Life Extension magazine reported data that among men already having chronic heart failure -- admittedly not our condition, I trust, but still a situation capable of showing that there can be an effect -- men with levels in the highest 20% of the group were 133% more likely to die within 3 years than those with levels between 21.8 and 30.1 pg/mL; while those with levels under 12.9 pg/mL were 317% more likely to die.

So proper estrogen levels can have a major effect on health.

There are other things that have been shown of course regarding benefits of optimal estrogen levels, but this is recent news on it.

Anyway, it helps show that one doesn't want to simply assume that levels aren't being driven too low. Although in the case of conservative and brief use, I'm not saying there's a significant health risk in making the assumption. The above is really in reference to planned chronic use."

Thanks for yet a brilliant post BR.

I think I will only try to use Letro for a couple of weeks with the dose you prescribed and see how it affects my body. I have some minor fat depositis around my chest (right under the nipple) that I want to take care of. I will of course logg it

By the way....
should I avoid strenght and weight training when on Letro?

I have a supplier who have both Letro in Liquid form but also as pills and I guess you want me to go with the pills?

How should I end my letro cycle?Which is the smartest way you recommend?

Thanks for your time!

 

[Stretch]

Hey bro, liquid would be much easier to alter the dose. Pills you gotta break, and try to estimate what % of a piece of pill you're taking. With liquid it's much easier.

 

[c.phantasy]

Hey bro, liquid would be much easier to alter the dose. Pills you gotta break, and try to estimate what % of a piece of pill you're taking. With liquid it's much easier.

Thanks for the tip bro!


BR,please answer my questions?

 

[Bill Roberts]

It was a Typo Thanks for noticing!

By the way....
should I avoid strenght and weight training when on Letro?

I have a supplier who have both Letro in Liquid form but also as pills and I guess you want me to go with the pills?

How should I end my letro cycle?Which is the smartest way you recommend?

By no means would there be a reason to avoid strength and weight training while using letrozole.

It doesn' t matter whether letrozole is supplied as a tablet or as a liquid: the considerations would be price and confidence in the product containing what it is supposed to contain and in the correct amount. Tablets can be fakes just as well as liquids can, but if the tablets come in apparently-legit pharmaceutical packaging I guess there would be more reason for confidence than there would be with a liquid, if all else were equal.

There is no special technique required to end letrozole use when not using steroids. The drug self-tapers.

 

[Marc Kerr]

am i missing something here? why would anyone take an AI only? makes no sense. if i am missing something, what is your AAS cycle going to be while on letro?

 

[c.phantasy]

By no means would there be a reason to avoid strength and weight training while using letrozole.

It doesn' t matter whether letrozole is supplied as a tablet or as a liquid: the considerations would be price and confidence in the product containing what it is supposed to contain and in the correct amount. Tablets can be fakes just as well as liquids can, but if the tablets come in apparently-legit pharmaceutical packaging I guess there would be more reason for confidence than there would be with a liquid, if all else were equal.

There is no special technique required to end letrozole use when not using steroids. The drug self-tapers.

Thanks for the input BR!

I will start a logg as soon as my Letrozole (Liquid) arrives!

Take care!

 

[c.phantasy]

Started today with the triple dosage of 0.36 mg x 3 with liquid letrozole.

Day 1 3 x dosage =1.08 mg
Day 3 0.36
Day 4 0.36
Day 5 0.36
Day 6 0.36
Day 7 0.36

Total:2.52 mg/week 1

 

[c.phantasy]

Felt like shit on the third day but I have recovered from it and I´m feeling very well now.

But I guess the results are not as promising as I would imagine

So perhaps a steroid cycle will be the next shot and I will save my letro for it.

How long can liquid letro be stored?

 

[Bill Roberts]

I can't predict exactly, but quite a long time. I would expect years, assuming the vehicle does not contain water.

If it does contain water, then perhaps only months, though years still might be possible. I'd refrigerate it for long-term storage if the vehicle contained much water.

I don't know whether some providers may for some misguided reason include water or not. If using high-proof alcohol, that would count as containing a significant amount of water.

If preparing letrozole oneself, it dissolves readily into 200 proof alcohol at 2.5 mg/mL or perhaps more.

I'm not saying it's unstable in the presence of some water: it's a pretty stable molecule. But only that I can't guarantee how stable long-term when water is present.