What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left over.

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Distubing - text loss... another story..:(

So I have been recently motviated to reitterate my diatrobe and re-education of the practicing medical community...:eek: But the bottom line is that there is not a technical article out there these days describing SHBG as the "delivery Method for homrones to tissue". What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left over...?:D

The other day I was going round in my head and noting how silly I must look to bio-science technical if even observed. As this quest could readily be viewable with the tools I have used here. Still, i dawns no me that common medical docs and the like still appear to COMPLETELY HAVE MISSED THE BOAT. And it appears to be inherently intended due to the training method in form as applied to analysis and diagnosis methods employed. In short, keep them stupid to some degree so that they can grasp and apply their job. I'm digressing negatively and perhaps again shoving my size 12 in my mouth, so I stop on that analysis trail there. But in short what has prompted my re-visit of this notion was talking to a doc the other day who simply advised that High Free T is "Good". Rediculous... The truth is that he does not really care. He is only operating by the methods to which the community has employed. For him to venture beyond that in though process would border opening the ever philosophical and scientific RESEARCH DOOR, which he has no time for to function effectively based on the standard methods current. The post by JakeZ noting the short life of free T in plasma as well.

As a general premise EVERYONE seems to view Free T as the Mecca of utilized homones, when in fact its nothing more than proof of life. I hear over an over again the worthlessness of testosterone as bound to SHBG. This can not be the case. The ROLE of SHBG is to deliver fuel to biological cells. The hormone which it chooses to involve with is a function or portion of the payload delivered. The actual testosterone which serves as value to the human body is in fact the Testosteroine which is bound to protien, which is either SHBG or ALBUMIN. The free T is simply what is not picked up and used, but PROOF there is excess thus there is enought for normal function. Where the corrolation that higher Free T as a strick positive comes from - I can not gather in text on wrap my brain around. So please help me if I fell off the boat and dont know it.

Consider (2) Primes as a hormonal interaction of Testosterone.
1. Androgens supplied to Muscle, bone, brain, etc.
2. Estrogens supplied to Muscle, bone, brain, etc.

The KEY is that they are not supplied, they are derived there. Testosterone is supplied and ONLY BOUND TESTOSTERONE, at least from a FEEDING or "Biological Feeding Process".

I will consider FAT & MUSCLE for this discussion as the body's (2) far opposites in refernce as to the being the most strickly involved with a particular hormonal derivative generated (androgens or estrogens).

So now, further subset the Testosterone interaction with tissue as such:
1. Muscle - a) Testosterone interacting with muscle for normal process or work.
b) And testosterone supplied to muscle for GROWTH or Tissue generation; either by developmental normal growth stages, or the potential GH release in the GYM - The HOLY GRAIL - new muscle tissue created ( Hint: This dont happen on the cables or nautty)

2. FAT - a) Testosterone interacting with FAT/Adipose tissue in normal function and based on sheer cell count. The normal amount of calories delivered to maintain current fat levels.
b) Testosterone interacting with FAT as a growth and addition of FAT storage. You have to wonder does a "Holy Grail" of Fat tissue cell count exist, in that can fat cells actually increase beyound GENETICALLY INTENDED Counts. I bet it can..!

But THE POINT IS - That when it comes to the value of the hormone testosterone with reference to normal bioloical action in tissue, ITS ACTUALLY THE BOUND TESTOSTERONE THAT SERVES....! I would speculate that whether Free Testosterone as a entity of short life span serves any purpose at all could be up to debate.

So you have the old premise (Bro-Science) that muscle is associated with Androgens and FAT is associaed with estrogens. Yes, the testosterone when applied to the muscle or Fat VIA THE SHBG OR ALBUMIN then spins off the derivative hormones (androgens or estrogens and their subsets).

NOTES:

An Intesting study would be:
What are the diffenences in folks with homonal imbalances to extremes. The OTHER DIFFERENCES. I think the bottom line is that the body will DEMAND what it wants FOOD WISE, which now defines the hormonal derivative pattern. But FOOD for energy being the MASTER SET. Therefore the result will be the same every time. Which is the sacrafice of the inundated system based on the demand on the one in need. AKA - Fat guys will get fatter and have even more estrogens and just to feed their brains at work.

** Its begs some attention to the point as to which protien which testosterone is servicing DOES WHAT. Meaning, Does Albumin only service higher organs (heart, brain, etc). Could SHBG bound be only servicing muscle and fat?

But along the lines of that study is the point that HORMONE DERIVATIVES from testosterone do indeed wind up in plasma, which can only hold so much at a moment. So what does having a bunch of fat generating estrogens from testosterone do to other areas of the body?
Could it potentially render them starved for calories via the overwhelming excess blood population? Meaning does a brain starve somewhat if excess hormones are interacting with receptors thus blocking the hormones carrying the protien from interacting?
Could it potentially cause cancer via FORCED EXTENDED RECEPTOR INTERACTION with hormones. In short, could a prostate be forced to hold an E2 that it had already produced after gobbling the protien attached to the T, and then have that E2 further mutate/derive to E3 right there in the receptor slot, and simply because there was not enough room in plasma to release?!?

Just what is the value to blood plasma clearance to being properly hydrated? And how much does that importance increase to a person who has excess bodily composistions of either nature, and producing excess amounts of either hormone derivative.? While I suspect it simply boils down to the processing organ (liver or kidney), and thay they can be pushed pretty hard, I would imagine an excess workload is never good and should yield some negative results at a minimum..

***** But BACK ON TRACK***** It would seem that not only is SHBG and ALBUMIN in our bodies NOT NOT NOT put there SIMPLY to PROTECT Testosterone for delivery to the cell (Hard Core Bro-Science). Its Actually the REVERSE. In that SHBG and ALBUMIN REQUIRE TESTOTERONE for the FUELING PROCESS and depeding on the cell TYPE. Thus we have our derivatives and their ACTIONS //// AND CONSEQUENCE perhaps.

ZKT Further mentioned that he may agree with some of my notions being possibly correct with regard to not placing so much stock in serum counts. I dont dare place any words in his mouth or attempt to extrapolate where he may or may not agree. But with regard to serum counts, we are simply taking a MEASUREMENT, and then attempting to CORROLATE it with statistical OBSERVATIONS of OTHER SIMILAR ANIMALS/HUMANS IN ACTION. We have developed a NORM based on these numbers which is a calclation of MEANS & AVERAGES which figures are seen most readily in peers alike, and extremely general to that scope. In short - ALL WE REALLY KNOW THAT 1 ='s LIFE and ZERO ='s DEATH. LOL but seriously. Zero being ABSOLUTE, and "1" ranging up to 1200ng/dl with regard to normal healthy standards. That is until you further QUALIFY the STATISTICAL NUMBERS as they relate to the INDIVIDUAL or SUBJECT - which all vary GREATLY when you really take a look. With REGARD to Doc Jim, It should be "As" it becomes unbound... Which would be the process at which time it is uptaked by a hungy cell. There is no in between. (which Z may have only interrated confusingly, not sure)

With regard to the post by JAkeZ. Does more in serum mean better? NO..! Its about proportional relations vs. real bodily doilogical metabolism. There are many variables to look at. With regard to analysis you would Consider TWO VECTORS. First the QUALITY of the MEASUREMENTS, and Second as how the subject COMPARES to others. The first is poorly utiliized, the second in next to impossible to QAUNTIFY. Therefore ACTIVE medical science (in the docs office) stops with limited certainty. That is the most detail the Can EFFECTIVELY UTILITIZE, and given the context of how the ILLNESS or ISSUE MERITS with GREAT consideration for current POLITICS as SOCIAL STANDARDS APPLIED. In short you are CATTLE...

So your free testosterone is 20 (or whatever) and your TT is 980 for example. This tells you NOTHING. NOTHING... NOTHING>>...
1. What was it an hour ago, 30mins, or even 60 seconds.
2. What are your physiological foundations? Receptor counts? Actual numbers of them in USE...!?
3. It considers nothing as far as you current physiological OPERATING EFFICACY or Efficiency. What happens to YOU under a given WORKLOAD or Point of stress.
4. But in short, WE DONT KNOW (3) IMPORTANT THINGS ABOUT YOU:
a) What is you DEMANDED PRODUCTION RATE? How much TT are your NUTZ producing in a given minute or even one second interval.?
b) Where is the TT going? What is it converting to? To which tissue types? We dont even know if FAT uses TT at a SLOWER RATE than muscle (which I suspect is the case). Further how active or your muscles or fat? Are you just walking around or are you working out every day with a spotter forcing you to work to the point that you a bordering on REDIFINING YOUR GENETIC INTENDED COMPOSITION every afternoon at 4pm? Are you fat, or are you even CURRENTLY GETTING FATTER!?!?
c) Whats the clearance rate? Is your body successfully eliminating everything as it should to make room for new.?

Those are three important points. However, FOR MOST FOLKS, the MAGIC act is accurring in number "(b)" above. Consider the human body is pretty fucking BULLET PROOF. And that bastard can adapt on a fucking DIME>!!! So production ("a." above) I suspect for any "healthy or normal" case under 55 yrs old is GIVEN. The capability is there. And as far as "(c.)" above goes, you know your shit is working right, else you would be yellow, green, and all shades in between - hopefully not blue - lol. So the PROBLEM lies in the middle. This is what I refer to in my mind as the "Nitty Gritty" of the human biological process. For example, SHBG is produced in the liver, so what now if you are straining the shit out of if with excess E elimination, or any hormone elimination, or any FOREIGN Contaminant for that matter, What you ate, did not know you ate, whatever. So now you have an organ which is dutied with with the responsibility of BOTH ADDITION and REMOVAL of biological prime players. *** With that said it makes sense when you consider CAP POINTS or max interactional.involvement rates within the SYSTEM as a whole. Hell, it should make sense that an organ responsible of removal of a factor should also produce a related involved factor. Who else knows better right? Or at least its a good measuring point or "thermostat in action". Fuck all that for now. The bottom line is that we dont know how long hormones are involved at receptors, what influences this, how they may go on to further act throughout the body, and its all further confounded by the body's redundancy in production points; as well as the hormone derivation BACK AND FORTH PROTOCAL which occurs with many homones in the body. So this is the area which is the mystery and will remain one for some time I thiink, or at least untile someone with the brain comes along and develops a super computer with the firmware to process the calculations, BUT ONLY after we have discerned all the valid points of measurement and detemined HOW to properly measure and then STANDARDIZED to this theorhetical calculator...

Examples of complete failures in SINGULAR FACTORS to interpret by:
Take the Numbers I gave above. 1200 TT and Free T of 20. Thats (2) Factors which is better than one. You can create this matrix:
1. Body is producing enough TT to meet demands and enought Free T.
2. Body is working slow or sick today and TT is elevated and LESS is being USED.
3. Body is working harder than usual today and the test was taken at the end of an instand up swing to 1600 even, immediatly throttled down in plasma SUPPLY by CONSUMPTION.
4. Nothing changes on TT and Free T goes up. Perhaps the body is using less Bound T today and the NUTZ Just cant get enought of that production high buzz cause you are such a workout free aerobicaly and normally have to have a bunch, but you watched TV instead.
5. Free T only again, but goes down. You could be using more TT which is forcing to blood to pick up more Free T right off the produciton line thus leaving less. BUT KEY, your boys are currently maxed out so therefore FREE T must reduce. Your RESERVE has been lessened.
6. The list goes on.

I used to preach BASELINES, and getting bloodwork done prior to any attempt to supplement hormones. Then I went through a phase of what the fuck is the point when so many variables and medicine could give a shit from a diagnostic standpoint anyway. but really its better to do so.

The one thing that the current science of TRT can be sure of should be this. The closer the measurement to the SOURCE, the better the proof of failure if there is such a thing as a "Low T Male". The one thing Free T is, is that it is obviously Testosterone that is not picked up by Protien. Still the failure of Actual Demanded Usage Rates again applies, and on.... But it makes sense that if Total T goes up as A REAL DEMAND (not nececsarily measurable), then Free T should Go down, BUT ONLY given that testicular production is nearing top end production potential. So in most folks and Low T males for sure, this scenario should not arrise to offer any accuracy. If you further bring SHBG into the equation and create a "Tri-Matrix", you then would not know any more unless you are measuring SHBG unbound and uninvolved with T (which common sense would indicate they MUST BE), and still all the above variable moot out same - unless you can now get a flow meter on the liver too in order to monitor SHBG production.. And who the fuck even knows where Albumin is sythesized or where it comes from? Do we now bring the digestive tract into play? Or is it strict liver majority also.?

A "Low-T Male" may in fact be a low T male simply because of the fact that he has not andrgen generating factors to create the production of Androgens. In fact, the "low-T Male" is REALLY the "Low-Androgen Male", but society wont dare to go there. Then you might actually be supplying them with the dreaded "Super Criminal Elixer" - Lex Luthor in a bottle - lol... Also a low T male is not only a LowT Male, but He is a "High-E Male" with usual Certainty. So he not only suffers the lack of the luxury on androgens (and really the luxury of what makes them more realically), he is suffering the conserquence of the PAIN of Excess E's. A viscious circle and sort of a dance with the devil and dare to stare a the abyss. And on this occasion the Lure is the Devil's off to let you continue to look, while all along you are sinking further and more irrevokably. FAT is a TRAP that is TIME DEPENDENT indeed...

Enough....
(good) http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/9285
(weak) Sex hormone-binding globulin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(interesting and another topic) Relationships of Circulating Sex Hormone–Binding Globulin With Metabolic Traits in Humans
(Marketing) SHBG: The Test | Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
(Looks Good) http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/91/12/4764.full (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin: Inhibitor or Facilitator (or Both) of Sex Steroid Action?)
(LOL) AE-3 - Aromatase blocker, SHBG blocker with Estrogen detoxifier (why anyone whould want to "Block" Shbg is beyond me)
(interesting attemp at somehing) Testosterone Basics
(BEYOND) Human variant sex hormone-binding gl... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI

There are a couple of attachments too...
 

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Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

Wow, I just tried reading your post. It gave me a really bad headache. Talk about over analyzing.

Eric
 
Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

And who the fuck even knows where Albumin is sythesized or where it comes from? Do we now bring the digestive tract into play? Or is it strict liver majority also.?..

[:o)] I literally laughed out loud when I got to this part. Good rant bro

Wow, I just tried reading your post. It gave me a really bad headache. Talk about over analyzing.

Eric

Its actually very good, and quite comical at the same time, maybe one day you will be able to understand it :D
 
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Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

Right. Mental mastutbarion at its finest. Why bother having blood work done for anything then? How do we even know If the values they r using are relevant to anything to begin with, especially when considering the "range" most labs use for t includes sick and elderly? This is a slippery slope and while I can agree its a lot of guesswork the way we measure things, for you to pretend the Low t make doesn't exist is a false argument as anything you could say. Its easily turned on its head because as I said the "normal range" for t is populated by the sick and elderly as well. But then again the serum counts don't matter... But then I have symptoms and my readings are low../ but wait its just a snapshot.. But I feel like shit and my t is 300.. And I'm lean.. W normal e2.. But wait how do we know e2 measurements matter either.. My WBC count us low... But wait.. Hiw do we know we can trust that... And in and on and on we go... Don't trust the ramblings of a madman folks.
 
Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

Also I love how to this very day you assume that every low t male is... Fat. I guess it makes you feel better but nothing could be further from the truth. Also how out of one side of your mouth you can pretend serum counts mean jack shit but then out the other you use them to justify high estrogen or low testosterone as it were. Your a loon.
 
Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

The "high Estrogen or Low testosterone(incorrect) androgens" when stated DESCRIBES actual factors and hormones processed - which is exactly the point that THEY CANT BE MEASURED in any conventional sense. Or via ANY MEANS for that matter.

THATS THE WHOLE POINT NUMB NUT.... I am descrbiing the fact that THEIR ACTIONS ARE indeed incalculable...

"FAT" is a general term. It is also used to describe flabby little no-muscle pussies like yurself. I am not painting the "LowT male" as a rotunda with twinkees only. FAT is a term of Endearment...

The entire MORAL of the premise is that its about incalculable RECEPTOR counts in population as well, and there whether or not they are ACTIVE (fat OR muscle).

One of my FUNDAMENTAL PRemises is that a man may indeed weigh 300lbs and be pure blubber, HOWEVER, if the fat is in a state of shed, or not actively being stored, they may very well have little estrogen factors working at the time.

You would most likely be the case of the queer fuck in the closet that goes to blow his lunch in hopes that one day he can come out and get that juicy cock hes been dreaming of.. MOST folks dont have an IRON ALLERGY ya know...
Pussy Bitch...

Also I love how to this very day you assume that every low t male is... Fat. I guess it makes you feel better but nothing could be further from the truth. Also how out of one side of your mouth you can pretend serum counts mean jack shit but then out the other you use them to justify high estrogen or low testosterone as it were. Your a loon.
 
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Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

LOL - At least I know I'm still up to snuff... but you DID try and thats a start..:D;)

You have to be a truly dimented bastard to fully appreciate I am afraid.

Kudos to Newbie as clearly a brotha! Im just not sure if thats a good thing...:drooling:;):D But I always appreciate fine regard...

And BAX dont count. He just skims looking for avenues... Another quality found in HOMO-Predisexuals....:p

Wow, I just tried reading your post. It gave me a really bad headache. Talk about over analyzing.

Eric
 
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Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

Like I said (if you stopped to read and not PICK). We can count on the numbers via the use of statistical analysis and we QUALIFY the results based on OUR PEERS ALIKE. That is all, but its enough. ITS WHAT DRIVES THEM WHICH WE HAVE DIFFICULTY QUALIFYING - without further refinement in analysys methods. THE ISSUE is SOCIO-POLITICAL ENTIRELY. There is nothing SLIPPERY about it. It is what it is... And YES, I JACK-IT well thanks. It was a good one too...

BEING is a STATE OF MIND many times. I make NO PRETENSE to diagnose ANYONE. I only provide Gas for thought. You'll get there one day Biggie...:rolleyes:

I Expect NO ONE to TRUST ME...

Right. Mental mastutbarion at its finest. Why bother having blood work done for anything then? How do we even know If the values they r using are relevant to anything to begin with, especially when considering the "range" most labs use for t includes sick and elderly? This is a slippery slope and while I can agree its a lot of guesswork the way we measure things, for you to pretend the Low t make doesn't exist is a false argument as anything you could say. Its easily turned on its head because as I said the "normal range" for t is populated by the sick and elderly as well. But then again the serum counts don't matter... But then I have symptoms and my readings are low../ but wait its just a snapshot.. But I feel like shit and my t is 300.. And I'm lean.. W normal e2.. But wait how do we know e2 measurements matter either.. My WBC count us low... But wait.. Hiw do we know we can trust that... And in and on and on we go... Don't trust the ramblings of a madman folks.
 
Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

And I meant to say "not a technical article out there that DOES NOT describe SHBG as the delivery method for hormones.". They all say it does...!

Apologies as I get carried away in HASTE. I'd like to be able to blame DRAGON, but these fingers can sing songs of sorrow... I actually have developed a numb spot on my BIRD FINGER as a callus beginning.. LOL

So how again is it that a "Freed T" molcule is the valuable one?!?

Free appears to ALWAYS be the leftover, and nothing more than the proof of life.:)

Distubing - text loss... another story..:(

So I have been recently motviated to reitterate my diatrobe and re-education of the practicing medical community...:eek: But the bottom line is that there is not a technical article out there these days describing SHBG as the "delivery Method for homrones to tissue". What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left over...?:D

The other day I was going round in my head and noting how silly I must look to bio-science technical if even observed. As this quest could readily be viewable with the tools I have used here. Still, i dawns no me that common medical docs and the like still appear to COMPLETELY HAVE MISSED THE BOAT. And it appears to be inherently intended due to the training method in form as applied to analysis and diagnosis methods employed. In short, keep them stupid to some degree so that they can grasp and apply their job. I'm digressing negatively and perhaps again shoving my size 12 in my mouth, so I stop on that analysis trail there. But in short what has prompted my re-visit of this notion was talking to a doc the other day who simply advised that High Free T is "Good". Rediculous... The truth is that he does not really care. He is only operating by the methods to which the community has employed. For him to venture beyond that in though process would border opening the ever philosophical and scientific RESEARCH DOOR, which he has no time for to function effectively based on the standard methods current. The post by JakeZ noting the short life of free T in plasma as well.

As a general premise EVERYONE seems to view Free T as the Mecca of utilized homones, when in fact its nothing more than proof of life. I hear over an over again the worthlessness of testosterone as bound to SHBG. This can not be the case. The ROLE of SHBG is to deliver fuel to biological cells. The hormone which it chooses to involve with is a function or portion of the payload delivered. The actual testosterone which serves as value to the human body is in fact the Testosteroine which is bound to protien, which is either SHBG or ALBUMIN. The free T is simply what is not picked up and used, but PROOF there is excess thus there is enought for normal function. Where the corrolation that higher Free T as a strick positive comes from - I can not gather in text on wrap my brain around. So please help me if I fell off the boat and dont know it.

Consider (2) Primes as a hormonal interaction of Testosterone.
1. Androgens supplied to Muscle, bone, brain, etc.
2. Estrogens supplied to Muscle, bone, brain, etc.

The KEY is that they are not supplied, they are derived there. Testosterone is supplied and ONLY BOUND TESTOSTERONE, at least from a FEEDING or "Biological Feeding Process".

I will consider FAT & MUSCLE for this discussion as the body's (2) far opposites in refernce as to the being the most strickly involved with a particular hormonal derivative generated (androgens or estrogens).

So now, further subset the Testosterone interaction with tissue as such:
1. Muscle - a) Testosterone interacting with muscle for normal process or work.
b) And testosterone supplied to muscle for GROWTH or Tissue generation; either by developmental normal growth stages, or the potential GH release in the GYM - The HOLY GRAIL - new muscle tissue created ( Hint: This dont happen on the cables or nautty)

2. FAT - a) Testosterone interacting with FAT/Adipose tissue in normal function and based on sheer cell count. The normal amount of calories delivered to maintain current fat levels.
b) Testosterone interacting with FAT as a growth and addition of FAT storage. You have to wonder does a "Holy Grail" of Fat tissue cell count exist, in that can fat cells actually increase beyound GENETICALLY INTENDED Counts. I bet it can..!

But THE POINT IS - That when it comes to the value of the hormone testosterone with reference to normal bioloical action in tissue, ITS ACTUALLY THE BOUND TESTOSTERONE THAT SERVES....! I would speculate that whether Free Testosterone as a entity of short life span serves any purpose at all could be up to debate.

So you have the old premise (Bro-Science) that muscle is associated with Androgens and FAT is associaed with estrogens. Yes, the testosterone when applied to the muscle or Fat VIA THE SHBG OR ALBUMIN then spins off the derivative hormones (androgens or estrogens and their subsets).

NOTES:

An Intesting study would be:
What are the diffenences in folks with homonal imbalances to extremes. The OTHER DIFFERENCES. I think the bottom line is that the body will DEMAND what it wants FOOD WISE, which now defines the hormonal derivative pattern. But FOOD for energy being the MASTER SET. Therefore the result will be the same every time. Which is the sacrafice of the inundated system based on the demand on the one in need. AKA - Fat guys will get fatter and have even more estrogens and just to feed their brains at work.

** Its begs some attention to the point as to which protien which testosterone is servicing DOES WHAT. Meaning, Does Albumin only service higher organs (heart, brain, etc). Could SHBG bound be only servicing muscle and fat?

But along the lines of that study is the point that HORMONE DERIVATIVES from testosterone do indeed wind up in plasma, which can only hold so much at a moment. So what does having a bunch of fat generating estrogens from testosterone do to other areas of the body?
Could it potentially render them starved for calories via the overwhelming excess blood population? Meaning does a brain starve somewhat if excess hormones are interacting with receptors thus blocking the hormones carrying the protien from interacting?
Could it potentially cause cancer via FORCED EXTENDED RECEPTOR INTERACTION with hormones. In short, could a prostate be forced to hold an E2 that it had already produced after gobbling the protien attached to the T, and then have that E2 further mutate/derive to E3 right there in the receptor slot, and simply because there was not enough room in plasma to release?!?

Just what is the value to blood plasma clearance to being properly hydrated? And how much does that importance increase to a person who has excess bodily composistions of either nature, and producing excess amounts of either hormone derivative.? While I suspect it simply boils down to the processing organ (liver or kidney), and thay they can be pushed pretty hard, I would imagine an excess workload is never good and should yield some negative results at a minimum..

***** But BACK ON TRACK***** It would seem that not only is SHBG and ALBUMIN in our bodies NOT NOT NOT put there SIMPLY to PROTECT Testosterone for delivery to the cell (Hard Core Bro-Science). Its Actually the REVERSE. In that SHBG and ALBUMIN REQUIRE TESTOTERONE for the FUELING PROCESS and depeding on the cell TYPE. Thus we have our derivatives and their ACTIONS //// AND CONSEQUENCE perhaps.

ZKT Further mentioned that he may agree with some of my notions being possibly correct with regard to not placing so much stock in serum counts. I dont dare place any words in his mouth or attempt to extrapolate where he may or may not agree. But with regard to serum counts, we are simply taking a MEASUREMENT, and then attempting to CORROLATE it with statistical OBSERVATIONS of OTHER SIMILAR ANIMALS/HUMANS IN ACTION. We have developed a NORM based on these numbers which is a calclation of MEANS & AVERAGES which figures are seen most readily in peers alike, and extremely general to that scope. In short - ALL WE REALLY KNOW THAT 1 ='s LIFE and ZERO ='s DEATH. LOL but seriously. Zero being ABSOLUTE, and "1" ranging up to 1200ng/dl with regard to normal healthy standards. That is until you further QUALIFY the STATISTICAL NUMBERS as they relate to the INDIVIDUAL or SUBJECT - which all vary GREATLY when you really take a look. With REGARD to Doc Jim, It should be "As" it becomes unbound... Which would be the process at which time it is uptaked by a hungy cell. There is no in between. (which Z may have only interrated confusingly, not sure)

With regard to the post by JAkeZ. Does more in serum mean better? NO..! Its about proportional relations vs. real bodily doilogical metabolism. There are many variables to look at. With regard to analysis you would Consider TWO VECTORS. First the QUALITY of the MEASUREMENTS, and Second as how the subject COMPARES to others. The first is poorly utiliized, the second in next to impossible to QAUNTIFY. Therefore ACTIVE medical science (in the docs office) stops with limited certainty. That is the most detail the Can EFFECTIVELY UTILITIZE, and given the context of how the ILLNESS or ISSUE MERITS with GREAT consideration for current POLITICS as SOCIAL STANDARDS APPLIED. In short you are CATTLE...

So your free testosterone is 20 (or whatever) and your TT is 980 for example. This tells you NOTHING. NOTHING... NOTHING>>...
1. What was it an hour ago, 30mins, or even 60 seconds.
2. What are your physiological foundations? Receptor counts? Actual numbers of them in USE...!?
3. It considers nothing as far as you current physiological OPERATING EFFICACY or Efficiency. What happens to YOU under a given WORKLOAD or Point of stress.
4. But in short, WE DONT KNOW (3) IMPORTANT THINGS ABOUT YOU:
a) What is you DEMANDED PRODUCTION RATE? How much TT are your NUTZ producing in a given minute or even one second interval.?
b) Where is the TT going? What is it converting to? To which tissue types? We dont even know if FAT uses TT at a SLOWER RATE than muscle (which I suspect is the case). Further how active or your muscles or fat? Are you just walking around or are you working out every day with a spotter forcing you to work to the point that you a bordering on REDIFINING YOUR GENETIC INTENDED COMPOSITION every afternoon at 4pm? Are you fat, or are you even CURRENTLY GETTING FATTER!?!?
c) Whats the clearance rate? Is your body successfully eliminating everything as it should to make room for new.?

Those are three important points. However, FOR MOST FOLKS, the MAGIC act is accurring in number "(b)" above. Consider the human body is pretty fucking BULLET PROOF. And that bastard can adapt on a fucking DIME>!!! So production ("a." above) I suspect for any "healthy or normal" case under 55 yrs old is GIVEN. The capability is there. And as far as "(c.)" above goes, you know your shit is working right, else you would be yellow, green, and all shades in between - hopefully not blue - lol. So the PROBLEM lies in the middle. This is what I refer to in my mind as the "Nitty Gritty" of the human biological process. For example, SHBG is produced in the liver, so what now if you are straining the shit out of if with excess E elimination, or any hormone elimination, or any FOREIGN Contaminant for that matter, What you ate, did not know you ate, whatever. So now you have an organ which is dutied with with the responsibility of BOTH ADDITION and REMOVAL of biological prime players. *** With that said it makes sense when you consider CAP POINTS or max interactional.involvement rates within the SYSTEM as a whole. Hell, it should make sense that an organ responsible of removal of a factor should also produce a related involved factor. Who else knows better right? Or at least its a good measuring point or "thermostat in action". Fuck all that for now. The bottom line is that we dont know how long hormones are involved at receptors, what influences this, how they may go on to further act throughout the body, and its all further confounded by the body's redundancy in production points; as well as the hormone derivation BACK AND FORTH PROTOCAL which occurs with many homones in the body. So this is the area which is the mystery and will remain one for some time I thiink, or at least untile someone with the brain comes along and develops a super computer with the firmware to process the calculations, BUT ONLY after we have discerned all the valid points of measurement and detemined HOW to properly measure and then STANDARDIZED to this theorhetical calculator...

Examples of complete failures in SINGULAR FACTORS to interpret by:
Take the Numbers I gave above. 1200 TT and Free T of 20. Thats (2) Factors which is better than one. You can create this matrix:
1. Body is producing enough TT to meet demands and enought Free T.
2. Body is working slow or sick today and TT is elevated and LESS is being USED.
3. Body is working harder than usual today and the test was taken at the end of an instand up swing to 1600 even, immediatly throttled down in plasma SUPPLY by CONSUMPTION.
4. Nothing changes on TT and Free T goes up. Perhaps the body is using less Bound T today and the NUTZ Just cant get enought of that production high buzz cause you are such a workout free aerobicaly and normally have to have a bunch, but you watched TV instead.
5. Free T only again, but goes down. You could be using more TT which is forcing to blood to pick up more Free T right off the produciton line thus leaving less. BUT KEY, your boys are currently maxed out so therefore FREE T must reduce. Your RESERVE has been lessened.
6. The list goes on.

I used to preach BASELINES, and getting bloodwork done prior to any attempt to supplement hormones. Then I went through a phase of what the fuck is the point when so many variables and medicine could give a shit from a diagnostic standpoint anyway. but really its better to do so.

The one thing that the current science of TRT can be sure of should be this. The closer the measurement to the SOURCE, the better the proof of failure if there is such a thing as a "Low T Male". The one thing Free T is, is that it is obviously Testosterone that is not picked up by Protien. Still the failure of Actual Demanded Usage Rates again applies, and on.... But it makes sense that if Total T goes up as A REAL DEMAND (not nececsarily measurable), then Free T should Go down, BUT ONLY given that testicular production is nearing top end production potential. So in most folks and Low T males for sure, this scenario should not arrise to offer any accuracy. If you further bring SHBG into the equation and create a "Tri-Matrix", you then would not know any more unless you are measuring SHBG unbound and uninvolved with T (which common sense would indicate they MUST BE), and still all the above variable moot out same - unless you can now get a flow meter on the liver too in order to monitor SHBG production.. And who the fuck even knows where Albumin is sythesized or where it comes from? Do we now bring the digestive tract into play? Or is it strict liver majority also.?

A "Low-T Male" may in fact be a low T male simply because of the fact that he has not andrgen generating factors to create the production of Androgens. In fact, the "low-T Male" is REALLY the "Low-Androgen Male", but society wont dare to go there. Then you might actually be supplying them with the dreaded "Super Criminal Elixer" - Lex Luthor in a bottle - lol... Also a low T male is not only a LowT Male, but He is a "High-E Male" with usual Certainty. So he not only suffers the lack of the luxury on androgens (and really the luxury of what makes them more realically), he is suffering the conserquence of the PAIN of Excess E's. A viscious circle and sort of a dance with the devil and dare to stare a the abyss. And on this occasion the Lure is the Devil's off to let you continue to look, while all along you are sinking further and more irrevokably. FAT is a TRAP that is TIME DEPENDENT indeed...

Enough....
(good) http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/9285
(weak) Sex hormone-binding globulin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(interesting and another topic) Relationships of Circulating Sex Hormone–Binding Globulin With Metabolic Traits in Humans
(Marketing) SHBG: The Test | Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
(Looks Good) http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/91/12/4764.full (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin: Inhibitor or Facilitator (or Both) of Sex Steroid Action?)
(LOL) AE-3 - Aromatase blocker, SHBG blocker with Estrogen detoxifier (why anyone whould want to "Block" Shbg is beyond me)
(interesting attemp at somehing) Testosterone Basics
(BEYOND) Human variant sex hormone-binding gl... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI

There are a couple of attachments too...
 
Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

Really I guess one thing that could be extrapolated if there is anything to that rant is that... And the PROOF for the presented equation so to speak:

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BE LOW T IF ONE HAS ANY FREE T at all... When Free T is in fact proof of excess production...

So blood serums serve with 100% effective application after all. But really, what else would ya need to know...

And sorry BAXy boy for blowin my top. You know I LOVE my CRITICS....
 
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Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

The level of misunderstanding of the values of T in the blood serum are MIND BOGGLING.. Here is an excerpt from the first listed link. HIGHLIGHTED are (2) POINTS; one appearing correct and the other from outter space:

Clinical Information Discusses physiology, pathophysiology, and general clinical aspects, as they relate to a laboratory testSex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), a homodimeric 90,000 to 100,000 molecular weight glycoprotein, is synthesized in the liver. Metabolic clearance of SHBG is biphasic, with a fast initial distribution from vascular compartment into extracellular space (half-life of a few hours), followed by a slower degradation phase (half-life of several days).

SHBG binds sex steroids with high affinity (KD approximately 10[-10]M), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) ->testosterone (T) ->estrone/estradiol (E). Although each monomeric subunit contains 1 steroid binding site, the dimer tends to bind only a single sex-steroid molecule. The main function of SHBG is sex-steroid transport within the blood stream and to extravascular target tissues. SHBG also plays a key role in regulating bioavailable sex-steroid concentrations through competition of sex steroids for available binding sites and fluctuations in SHBG concentrations. Because of the higher affinity of SHBG for DHT and T, compared to E, SHBG also has profound effects on the balance between bioavailable androgens and estrogens. Increased SHBG levels may be associated with symptoms and signs of hypogonadism in men, while decreased levels can result in androgenization in women.


So first they are saying that SHBG delivers T to tissue (I would think CORRECT)..
The main function of SHBG is sex-steroid transport within the blood stream and to extravascular target tissues.

THEN, They turn around and almost in the same sentence say that SHBG plays a key role in REGULATION of BIO-AVAILABLE hormones..?!??!?!??!
SHBG also plays a key role in regulating bioavailable sex-steroid concentrations through competition of sex steroids for available binding sites and fluctuations in SHBG concentrations.

The FAILURE and MISCONCEPTION is THIS. The Term "Bioavailable" has been lost in space it would seem. It gets presented as that the ONLY T that the body uses is Free T. This is correct and MOSTLY not. "BIOAVAILABLE T" is T freshly generated at the testicles. The thing is that it has been effectively "BIO-Uptaked" into the animal /human system AT THE POINT AT WHICH SHBG OR ALBUMIN picks it up. CASE CLOSED. At that point it has been utilized by the body where it will then be transported to cells/receptors.

So yes, if coining the TERM "Bio-availablilty" means testosterone that can be used by the body, then free T is indeed "Bioavailable". The FAILURE is the presentation OR assumption that once picked up by blood protein, it is UNAVAILABLE. When in fact, it is now ENABLED and well on its way to being used by a receptor. This is the COMPLETE MISNOMER as T MUST be picked up by blood protien to be used by receptor cells. It does not then again FIRST RELEASE from Protien in order to by used by the body. The next step is the interaction of the SHBG or ALBUMIN /WITH the TT attached which then generates the derivative Androgen or estrogen.
 
Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

The Second most effective FAILURE in this Confusion is the use of the term "Regulate".

THEN, They turn around and almost in the same sentence say that SHBG plays a key role in REGULATION of BIO-AVAILABLE hormones.. It DOES NOT REGULATE. ?!??!?!??! More like It leaves behind for dead as unused if not picked up..... THERE SIMPLY IS NO REGULATION GOING ON.... Its the presentation of some sort of CONTROL performed by SHBG that is creating the issue I think.

- The ONLY CONTROL is the biological DEMAND of the body.
- The Demand is created by normal cell function/work/stress.
- The ORDER issued is for FUEL (Protiens, carbs, hormones, etc)
- The NORMAL PROCESS of Meeting that need involves the delivery of hormones.
- Body > Work > Feed > Eat > Hormone Demand > Production > Use > Waste

The Demand REGULATES TT production. SHBG is a SUBSET of the SUPPLY Process. So if you want to call whatever is LEFTOVER "regulation" then fine. But really the relation use of terms is a complete FAILURE - in and NOTABLY in ANY LANGUAGE....

And Consider that was produced or at least re-published at the MAYO CLINIC.. For shits sake...
 
Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

I think you went insane and think you are a Medical Doctor or something.

Eric
 
Re: What FUKIN VALUE DOE FREE T HAVE - other than its nice to know ya got some left o

While it IS possible. I would never intentionally lower my thought processing to those poor standards ...:p:D

I think you went insane and think you are a Medical Doctor or something.

Eric
 
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