Test/Tren/Mast.... Maybe EQ?

[mikey_me]

Ahoi everyone -

First off - yup - I’m a newbie registered member on the forum – even though I've been following it for years! I follow various forums and I must say as of late I've been very impressed and enlightened with the responses I've seen from certain members on here… People one would like to be connected with kind of thing – in the hope of it all being mutually beneficial (honestly)! Pity that my first post is all about asking for input more than giving it… Sorry – but, I do hope to be able to contribute in future if possible…

So yeah that time again... time to decide on another cycle... thinking I "might" run 2 instead of only 1 this year round (did 1 last year, usually run 2)... but, to be honest would be happy with one good one if I get the results I'm after...

Yeah besides the age old story of wanting to put on muscle and lose that fat (pff don't we all want that)... there are some real goals...

So my last cycle (controversial in “many” circles) consisted of "low" doses of Deca, and then Tren (supported by Test throughout, DBol at the start and wini at the end): Truthfully - it really ran bloody well (no pun intended )... nothing hectic and pretty simple - and yeah I used the two - and was happy with the results.... And before anyone kicks me off here – NO… NO, I don't preach, recommend, suggest, or even a fan of mixing them either - but I think if done carefully and conservatively it's all good. PS: I'm also not claiming to be an expert here - because I'm certainly not - learning every day... and that's why I'm here with my new cycle...

So here is the thing - hoping for any suggestions, feedback, recommendations (sure it can critiqued – so constructive criticism would be awesome).... it all can help me achieve a great cycle.

Current Stats: Age = 32, 1.67 tall, BMI = 24.8, 67Kg, Body Fat 11%, Muscle 45% (results from last cycle - Muscle % up to 48% and Body Fat down to 8%... 3 weeks’ worth of decent holidays after that kinda messed things up a bit... … but, hey no regrets – was needed!). Best gains when I was at my peak and before falling ill several years back – accomplished a decent BMI and muscle %, weighing 80Kg and 9% BF.

And yup have been on a couple of cycles (again – no expert, but not an intermediate either. Different combinations in the past couple of years have included Deca, Sust, Tren, EQ, Dbol. Androl, Wini, Clen)... to be honest I really have learnt a ton in the past and keep on learning… to be honest – no regrets thus far –and am loving it – would like to keep it that way (seriously)!!… So, yeah I try be conservative and only cycle max 2 times a year. I would definitely classify this as a fairly hectic cycle in my books – and well yeah I’m giving it all serious consideration… I train 4-5 times a week, do a ton of road running (which I really love as difficult as it may be when on cycle) and enjoy a good game of soccer every now and again. My diet is in check (min fats, low carbs, high protein)... of course ignore ‘em holidays... which was more like a staple diet of alcohol and carbs, a dose of fat and maybe some protein – nah truthfully not that bad, but, bad in my books... ... no regrets - one needs a break every now and again)

So hoping to increase solid muscle mass (and hopefully sustain as much of it as possible), intend on working hard to get a more defined harder look, would also like to break the 8% BF barrier (and yeah I know diet is absolutely key here - need to try get it all right… and dammit I will!!). Maybe another thread about that later.

Ok, after that hectic biography if you still reading this (well done) – Cycle details in short:
Weeks 1-18: Test cyp - 375mg weekly (0.75ml 2 x week)
Weeks 1-4: Test prop - 100mg EOD
Weeks 1-12: Tren Enanthate - 400mg weekly (2ml 2 x week)
Weeks 1-16: EQ - 600mg weekly (2ml 1 x week)
Weeks 9-18: Mast Enanthate - 400mg weekly (1ml 2 x week)

Weeks 2-18: HCG 500iu - (2 x week)
Weeks 1-18: Adex - 0.5mg ED

Notes:

- Yes I've lumped EQ – and curious to hear what you guys have to say about that… yeah rather controversial… but, hopefully I’ll get some sound feedback here, and not just – “that’s plain stupid, take it out” kinda thing – not to say I shouldn't remove it – just looking for sound reasoning. Have spoken at length to mates who are well within the scene, huge debate there as well… But, all in all they have convinced in a big way to at least consider it – so I am. Why? Besides speaking to some guys at length have done a fair amount of research and seems to me that this could be a good recipe if conservative.
- First time using Mast… why? Good question – have always been advised on something else – never against it though… So, it’s probably about time hey!?
- PCT? Well yeah looking for recommendations/advice, this in itself is a story – and well I intend on posting my thoughts once I’ve brushed it all up… I’m somewhat wise enough – to preach (to the choir) this is the most important aspect of it all – else you practically piss your gains, hard work, efforts away – and well plain stupid and dangerous!!

Questions:
- Dosages & durations - cool or not?
- Ancillaries – There are a ton… Besides Daily Vitamin Pack, Caber, A1 and N2G – anything your guys regard as an absolute must!?... Again curious to hear what guys have to say.
- Goes without asking… Man oh man do I leave EQ in there? Must say the voices in my head are currently shouting –yes… But, then again maybe I should lean back to my conservative nature… Or not… Dammit… Help!

So yeah it's all up for discussion... and hoping it will be a good one!

And once again - want to thank everyone who responds in advance... this is a great medium for all of us, which I really am grateful for (only wish we would all use it more wisely) – and hey without you - would be nothing!

A huge thanks for bearing with me during this crazy long post – and in advance for any responses.

Cheers!

 

[Pericles]

Good, you are the right age and clearly are smart enough to take time off between cycles (the 2 biggest problems we run into).

My general advice is that your cycle is too long, shorten it to 12-14 weeks. Run the tren for 6 weeks max, same w/ the Mast. I would do the mast first, btw.

Last 2 weeks would just be test, 375 mg, then 250 mg then pct. Wait, just saw that you are running hcg for whole cycle. In that case, switch to T prop for last 2 weeks, so you will have everything clear for pct.

Run both Clomid and Tamox, 150/40 for 1st week, then 100/40 next week, then 50/40, then 20 mg of Tamox.

 

[mikey_me]

@Pericles.... Man thanks for the reply - seriously appreciate your comments and advice!

Truth be told (honestly) my longest cycle to date has been 14 weeks... can't say I'm a fan of longer... have toyed with the idea of 18 once suggested... But, I hear you - and will seriously consider your opinion.

May I ask - if you don't mind - in your opinion why Mast first... just curious? Probably a good idea - for me when i think of it - I know Tren... so I can look forward to it... Never used Mast so would be cool to see its results upfront I guess.

As for your recommendations around T Prop and PCT - REALLY Like those so you'll probably see them in the end result!

Thanks again mate!

 

[Jagger34]

Isn't 67 kg = 150 pounds?

 

[Pericles]

I love Mast, great cutter, builds a respectable amount of dry muscle and very, very few side effects.

I would run it first, as tren is a very powerful steroid. It builds more strength than Mast, and burns as much if not more fat. The problem is that if you do tren first, the mast may be a bit of a letdown. 6-7 weeks of mast early on, and you will get great results (saw my body changing almost every day). I did not get a lot of strength gains from the Mast, but I lost nearly 20 lbs of fat. Diet and training were on point, but no way I would have lost 20 lbs of fat from dieting and training alone, in fact I would have lost strength.

I am currently finishing a run that started w/ Test/Mast/var, and now am running around 300-350 of Tren E. 450 T e and var, 60 mgs on the days I lift (an hour of all out weights w/ 20 minutes of MT/KB bag work. I am getting some serious strength gains now, and my weight has moved up about 7 lbs and body fat is the same. The only drawback is my cardio, I am struggling to keep my bag work, which is an extremely high MaxHeartRate endeavor to begin with. I also do cardio on regular cardio equipment at 80% MHR.

At my age (50) tren is more dangerous, but at the amount I am using, along w/ a solid and healthy diet is (hopefully) OK. I made a deal w/ myself that if I ran tren, that I would keep my high intensity cardio work 6 days a week, and my diet clean. Also, am only going to run the tren for 2-3 weeks.

 

[Pericles]

Isn't 67 kg = 150 pounds?

Oh, good catch, J. If so,we need to get some size on you. OK, so forget the Mast., in fact just run T e at 500 mg per week, and also some T prop, 150 mg a week....more if you don't mind the knots it will put in you.

650 mg of test a week, and 250-350 tren is all you need.

Also, some people get more from EQ than others. I get decent results from it, whereas others get nothing.

 

[mikey_me]

Hey Guys -

Once again thanks for responses…

@Jagger – yup +-150pounds…. Dammit… But, only 167 tall… But yeah you absolutely right – can definitely put on much more solid mass! And I’d like to – just need to keep it clean!

@Pericles – Hehe here we go again – probably being steered away from Mast – again!!

But, can we just dwell on it just for a bit… ALL your comments around Mast are precisely what makes it sound so appealing – and yeah it all agrees with what those around me whom I trust have said, and what a ton of research I've done has shown…

Now here is a thought around Tren and Mast (please just bear with me) - the idea here is to use Mast in "combination" with Tren - unlike combining Mast with Dianabol (or Anadrol) - for an additive effect, not a synergistic one. Based on my research (hopefully correctly done), and having chatted to some guys; including Mast allows a lower Tren dosage while achieving very similar or equal "physique" benefit with less potential for Tren-specific side effects of night-sweats, increased tendency to aggression, and/or insomnia - Insomnia being the killer for me (because of different stresses - sometimes battle with sleep in a big way unfortunately). Guys NB: I'm in NO way comparing the two - they completely different - and need to be researched independently - however, the one can complement the other... make sense? Hope I'm not coming across as a know-it-all kinda bloke - because I most definitely don't - learning everyday!!.. So, any thoughts very welcome!

Your ideas around starting off with Mast – man I’m sold – completely hear you and I like what you have to say… The fact that it’s assisted you greatly as a fat burner too – where a proper diet is in place, as is the case with me… I like, because I know my diet is in check when on cycle but man – do I have to bloody well break the 8% BF barrier now (which I’ve done years back)… I did get it down to 7 last year, but man negligible because it simply doesn't stand… whereas I can go for weeks on 8%... And “exactly” what you point out – I don’t want to leave it to training and diet alone – because I probably will lose strength.

I also like your comments around cycle you running at the moment – and man would dig to chat to you about them – keen on your thoughts around Var (for another day I guess). As for your comments around cardio being a drawback with Tren – I know this all too well… and besides insomnia, this drawback is what I’m also afraid of… And yeah some will say – well I shouldn’t be road running – if on the stuff… truth is I love my running – really do! And it’s the best Cardio ever for me… and it’s worked great on other cycles (even with Tren – though I have felt the drawbacks – so trying to keep these in check).

Dude your comments around Tren at your age: In my humble opinion sounds like your brain is wired correctly and if you stick to that healthy diet, high intensity cardio where you respect and don’t mess around with your MaxHR and you don’t overdo it with Tren you will reap healthy benefits out of it for as long as you use it – so just keep that deal with yourself ok!?

Ok lastly, your revised comments around how I should tackle this cycle… I take your point - good dose of Test, and Tren (which I've done before)…. As for EQ – I think it’s awesome, helps with drawbacks with Cardio while on Tren – in a great way – whether that’s psychological or not – I donno?! ? But it does render good results and achieves its purpose – so yeah that’s why I’m considering including it.

Not going to lie – so undecided right now – LOL!... But will make up my mind in the next couple days… in the meanwhile, will keep on “listening” to what you and the others have to say…

Thanks again guys!

Cheers!!

 

[Jagger34]

Yes at 167 cm (5'6") you are a bit on the short side but at that size I think exotic compounds and complicated cycles are the last thing you need at this point. You have much room to grow naturally IMO

You say you need to keep it clean but at that size you can provably afford to dirty it up just a bit without an unacceptable body fat gain. It really looks like you just aren't eating enough.

If you insist on using AAS I would recommend just a simple 500 mg/week test e cycle with proper ancillaries and PCT. At your stage of development you will see excellent gains from a basic beginner cycle. Plus its very cheap haha

Eat food and train hard.

 

[Jagger34]

I love Mast, great cutter, builds a respectable amount of dry muscle and very, very few side effects.

I would run it first, as tren is a very powerful steroid. It builds more strength than Mast, and burns as much if not more fat. The problem is that if you do tren first, the mast may be a bit of a letdown. 6-7 weeks of mast early on, and you will get great results (saw my body changing almost every day). I did not get a lot of strength gains from the Mast, but I lost nearly 20 lbs of fat. Diet and training were on point, but no way I would have lost 20 lbs of fat from dieting and training alone, in fact I would have lost strength.

I am currently finishing a run that started w/ Test/Mast/var, and now am running around 300-350 of Tren E. 450 T e and var, 60 mgs on the days I lift (an hour of all out weights w/ 20 minutes of MT/KB bag work. I am getting some serious strength gains now, and my weight has moved up about 7 lbs and body fat is the same. The only drawback is my cardio, I am struggling to keep my bag work, which is an extremely high MaxHeartRate endeavor to begin with. I also do cardio on regular cardio equipment at 80% MHR.

At my age (50) tren is more dangerous, but at the amount I am using, along w/ a solid and healthy diet is (hopefully) OK. I made a deal w/ myself that if I ran tren, that I would keep my high intensity cardio work 6 days a week, and my diet clean. Also, am only going to run the tren for 2-3 weeks.

I'm taking the opposite approach with my current cycle. Running 10 weeks or so at 600 mg/week Tren E (with 3 week Tren A kick start on top) and 200 mg/week of my TRT test cyp. After that I'll be running test/Tren/mast for 4 weeks at 350 mg/week of each.

My philosophy is to use the 10 weeks highish Tren to recomp by adding a bit of muscle and shed whatever body fat I can with a clean diet, then use the test/Tren/mast combo to really bring it home for the last 4 weeks.

I may also add Clen/t3 midway through the first 10 weeks based on how my recomp changes are going

 

[Pericles]

Jagger, and Mikey,

The advice to keep it simple is warranted. Having said that, I would still run 2 compounds at a time. I would run 4-500 mg/week of test, and 3-400 tren. Also, you need to eat big. I mean a lot. Keep it somewhat clean (IE healthy fats etc) but 600 grams of carbs and 220-260 grams of protein a day. 100 grams of mostly healthy fats. Eat big, lift big (heavy compound movements) and sleep big.

I have been using tren for about a week now....did a shot last night, 300 t e, and 120 tren e. I was supposed to do 250 and 100, but ooops. I am going w/ an e3d schedule which puts my test at over 600 mg/week and a little under 300 tren.

I am supposed to be reducing mgs, but dang it, somehow extra jumped into my syringe. Ooops.

Woke up at 7am drenched, it was so wet I thought I pissed myself. Fortunately I have a King sized bed, so I just switched to the other side. I think I posted about how my wife gained all the fat I lost the last 6 months. She started p90, and if she loses another 10 pounds I might let her sleep w/ me again.

 

[mikey_me]

Yes at 167 cm (5'6") you are a bit on the short side but at that size I think exotic compounds and complicated cycles are the last thing you need at this point. You have much room to grow naturally IMO

You say you need to keep it clean but at that size you can provably afford to dirty it up just a bit without an unacceptable body fat gain. It really looks like you just aren't eating enough.

If you insist on using AAS I would recommend just a simple 500 mg/week test e cycle with proper ancillaries and PCT. At your stage of development you will see excellent gains from a basic beginner cycle. Plus its very cheap haha

Eat food and train hard.

Man Jagger - thanks for your comments - I completely take your point, but my last cycle consisted of Test and Tren... and dude - I really ate a ton bud - no really I did!... Ask anyone around me in the know - they just simply couldn't grasp it (donno if that's even worth a smile)... It's crazy... Now my approach has always been very clean (high protein, restricted carbs, and clean fats - total cal intake well over daily requirement) - maybe that's the prob - i should be more adventurous and less conservative... but like I say - wanna keep my BF down... should I be sacrificing that... IMO don't think i have to, if my training/diet are in check with the correct choice of AAS compounds? Just be honest - if you think I'm being silly?... I

I guess my point is - man I really donno how I could eat more... hehe... always a way yeah - but lets be realistic/pragmatic! Having said that will give your comments serious thoughts!

As for insisting on AAS... I really don't hey (most definitely not anti it though) - but like i said i try keep it conservative - 1-2 proper cycles a year... I've tried without and man I do believe i give it my all... I train hard and eat well without AAS... but, know from the past I can achieve so much more... hope that makes sense!?

In summary - you right, I should give it all serious thought... Tren/Test combo is great (i know from experience).... Just need to try to find a way to improve on what i've achieved on the past!...

 

[mikey_me]

Jagger, and Mikey,

The advice to keep it simple is warranted. Having said that, I would still run 2 compounds at a time. I would run 4-500 mg/week of test, and 3-400 tren. Also, you need to eat big. I mean a lot. Keep it somewhat clean (IE healthy fats etc) but 600 grams of carbs and 220-260 grams of protein a day. 100 grams of mostly healthy fats. Eat big, lift big (heavy compound movements) and sleep big.

I have been using tren for about a week now....did a shot last night, 300 t e, and 120 tren e. I was supposed to do 250 and 100, but ooops. I am going w/ an e3d schedule which puts my test at over 600 mg/week and a little under 300 tren.

I am supposed to be reducing mgs, but dang it, somehow extra jumped into my syringe. Ooops.

Woke up at 7am drenched, it was so wet I thought I pissed myself. Fortunately I have a King sized bed, so I just switched to the other side. I think I posted about how my wife gained all the fat I lost the last 6 months. She started p90, and if she loses another 10 pounds I might let her sleep w/ me again.

LOL - regarding your comments around your wife!! Haha!... Dude I give it another week... and sure you will want her back -even if it's to take over your wet spot!.... Yeah Tren and the sweats - know it all too well - all for it - so long as i can sleep man!!

As for you slipping extra mgs "in an oops kinda way"... man just keep it all in check... seriously!! But really don't see a problem with the doses you mention!

Ok so you boys reckon I should up my test, keep the tren and eat more... Like I said i "really" did do all this in my previous cycle (consisted of dbol & Deca upfront, then Tren and wini in the end - all supported by Test, and concluded with a decent PCT)... As for diet - Carbs probably +- 700g... Protein easily over 250... and yeah +-100 Fat... Sleep - hmm yeah wish i could say more - hence - my caution with Tren dose! As for training... think i'm doing ok - lifting as heavy as i can... and loving my workouts!

... Haha so undecided... but, really happy with all feedback - have a ton of thinking to do!

 

[mikey_me]

I'm taking the opposite approach with my current cycle. Running 10 weeks or so at 600 mg/week Tren E (with 3 week Tren A kick start on top) and 200 mg/week of my TRT test cyp. After that I'll be running test/Tren/mast for 4 weeks at 350 mg/week of each.

My philosophy is to use the 10 weeks highish Tren to recomp by adding a bit of muscle and shed whatever body fat I can with a clean diet, then use the test/Tren/mast combo to really bring it home for the last 4 weeks.

I may also add Clen/t3 midway through the first 10 weeks based on how my recomp changes are going

In my office taking a break, and thinking about what next.... and revisited thread and comments from last night.... and realised I completely missed this comment Jagger!

Really like this - really do - your philosophy seems pretty sound and must say think results should be awesome... Curious what doses Tren A you using for kickstart? 350mg Test, Tren & Mast for 4 weeks... would you consider 400mg Mast and Tren - just keen to know? Also curious to know how you would handle the Clen/T3... man sorry dude for being so inquisitive - I'll stop the questions now - just one last one... How long are you into the cycle - and how is it going?

Hey.. Seriously, thanks again for all the input man!

 

[Jagger34]

In my office taking a break, and thinking about what next.... and revisited thread and comments from last night.... and realised I completely missed this comment Jagger!

Really like this - really do - your philosophy seems pretty sound and must say think results should be awesome... Curious what doses Tren A you using for kickstart? 350mg Test, Tren & Mast for 4 weeks... would you consider 400mg Mast and Tren - just keen to know? Also curious to know how you would handle the Clen/T3... man sorry dude for being so inquisitive - I'll stop the questions now - just one last one... How long are you into the cycle - and how is it going?

Hey.. Seriously, thanks again for all the input man!

On my phone but I'll do the best I can to answer all.

Tren A is 450-300-250 in weeks 1-3 respectively. Basically just bought a bottle and tapering down as my Tren E kicks in (Tren E has been 600 mg since start). Inject tren A daily.

I'm about 11 days in and already smashing PR's.

The low test is seeming to keep the harsh tren sides at bay, at least for now. No insomnia, no rage (still get the night sweats though haha)

400 of each tren and mast would probably be OK. This will be my first run with mast so I can't really comment too much on that yet. Would definitely run at least a base of test with it tho.

Clen and t3 if needed are going to be 80 mcg and 50-75 mcg of each daily, respectively. I've run both before last year and tolerate them pretty well but am not a real fan of the Clen jitters and felt like ass on t3 at 75 or above so that's my threshold there.

 

[Pericles]

Also, if using T3 (which I would not do unless I was still competing) make sure you taper down gradually.

 

[mikey_me]

@Jagger - First off - you did well with that reply on your phone!... Thanks! Man seems like a great cycle (and really not just saying it to be nice) - and I really like the principles you've applied with Tren upfront (maybe I should steal the idea! :hijack: )... No seriously think you should see great results... awesome feeling 11 days in and you seeing results hey??!! Love it - feel like you on top of the world, and you can't wait to get to the gym every time!... Constantly geared for more improvements!

As for the low test theory - man completely support you there! Always hope for the same my side every time... that's why i do keep it conservative - some say far too conservative!... Dude as for running a base of test - absolute must... of course... yes i know - I'm preaching to the choir!

Man as for the night time sweats.... and rage... bring them all on... Just PLEASE keep the insomnia away... pretty please!!!

Clen/T3 great!... Funny i cope with the jitters hey - don't ask how - but i do! Quite a laugh when i'm in a boardroom full of people and trying to hold a cuppa coffee in the morning.... LOL!!... But umm, truth be told I've never used both of them on a cycle before... I should toy with that idea... yay - some more bedtime reading!... which kinda leads me to my question @Pericles - if you don't mind me asking - why wouldn't you use T3 unless competing?... Simply curious.

Ok guys - gonna post my tweaks to cycle.... and PCT bit later... you may have given me all the necessary feedback already - but hey maybe something else comes up!

 

[Pericles]

I would not use T3 because I can get plenty of fat loss from a properly designed stack, training, and diet.

I ran my first cycle in over 7 years (had been on trt) and lost a ton (15 lbs) of fat. It was test/var/Masteron. Granted, I was training like an animal, did cardio 6 days a week, and diet was fairly clean, although I ate plenty. Really no need for another compound.

 

[mikey_me]

I would not use T3 because I can get plenty of fat loss from a properly designed stack, training, and diet.

I ran my first cycle in over 7 years (had been on trt) and lost a ton (15 lbs) of fat. It was test/var/Masteron. Granted, I was training like an animal, did cardio 6 days a week, and diet was fairly clean, although I ate plenty. Really no need for another compound.

Hear you man.... that's why i'm loving my road running at the moment... its my recipe to cutting... having said that though... like I said wanna cut the 8% BF barrier this year and not only for a week or 2 - as i did last year... So i guess that's why I'm curious! Sometimes, training like an animal with your diet in check and a simple cycle is the answer... but sometimes you do need that extra compound/tweak...