When to cut after cycle

[Mr. Joe]

Im curious as to when you guys start to cut after a bulking cycle. Im thinking of doing an 8 week cycle of test e (500 mg/week) with dbol (25mg/day) for the first 4 weeks, with anastrozole 1mg EOD. Im planning to start tamoxifen approximately 3 weeks after last pin, 20 mg/day for four weeks or as long as needed.

I am also planning on preparing for a half marathon to be held in late October or early November. My plan is to run on off days during the cycle and then really step up the cardio and cut back my lifting to maintenance after the cycle.

So my question is how long after my PCT should I focus my training and diet on maintaining mass before I focus on cutting and training for the half marathon? Assuming my goal is to put on as much muscle as possible during cycle and then cut as much fat as possible while training for the half marathon.

I know there is no clear cut answer to this question, I would just like to hear your opinions based on your experiences.

Thanks

 

[THE STORM SHADOW]

Back in the 80's.. a Dr that was prescribing me AAS when it was still legal said to me... pick ONE thing to be good at on AAS you can't live both worlds... pick this up and put it down ORRRRRRRR run your ass off.

Now a conversation with my lifiting partner... he was doing his bulk cycle and asked me "when do you think I should start my cutting cycle?" I said "for what? are you big enough to compete?" him "no" me "then why waste your time and money cutting? it will just dig into your mass cycle and put off your mass goals further and further out". I see this on many boards... people do a mass then a cut then a mass... I'm like WTF? if you want to just be cut do clen and give up EVER being on steroids UNLESS!!!!!!!!! unlesssssssssss you have a competetive goal that requires risk and even thennnnnnn people call people like me "stupid".

If a person needs them for HRT or other health related reasons that's one thing... if you need them to compete it's another... if ya take them to look good at the beach..that person is more stupid than i am.

 

[beezil]

to add to what SS said.

AAS and endurance activities don't go hand and hand… unless your willing to use low doses of test, eq, and EPO.

if you are… make sure and have a Physician on staff that is knowledgeable in doping.

 

[THE STORM SHADOW]

Remember Ben Johnson? Winstrol tabs made him the fastest on earth but that was a sprint. A friend of mine that was training at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs told me the endurance athletes were using HGH and EPO like beezil said. I wouldn't do the eq though.... my calves and shins would get pumped up so easy that it would drop me on my back within minutes with extreme pain during tennis.

In addition... every pound of muscle you put on makes you that much slower...when it comes to distance, your natural weight minus the fat gives you the edge..... HGH and EPO are the only way to go so pick a sport related to running and be good at it or pick something related to bodybuilding and be good at it..... the drugs for each of these style events are not the same.

 

[beezil]

I get the calves and shin pumps from Tren FIERCE.

EQ nothing but ease… until my RBC gets too high.

now a days its pretty hard to run anything and compete with the biological passport.
WADA will hunt you down years later.

As SS said… body weight is everything for those kind of activities.

Why would you want to bulk and then go run 13 miles anyway??


oh…and winni. NO WAY. Everytime i have used that stuff… my hips, knees, and achilles… can hardly move.

Definitely wouldn't recommend that when endurance training. at least for me.

 

[THE STORM SHADOW]

I get the calves and shin pumps from Tren FIERCE.

EQ nothing but ease… until my RBC gets too high.

now a days its pretty hard to run anything and compete with the biological passport.
WADA will hunt you down years later.

As SS said… body weight is everything for those kind of activities.

Why would you want to bulk and then go run 13 miles anyway??


oh…and winni. NO WAY. Everytime i have used that stuff… my hips, knees, and achilles… can hardly move.

Definitely wouldn't recommend that when endurance training. at least for me.

I hear ya... I won't use winny either.

 

[Mr. Joe]

Thanks for the replies. I think my point was less than clear. I dont plan to cut while on cycle. I plan to cut after PCT. My question is do you switch from eating and training to bulk to eating and training to cut immediately after you finish PCT or wait a period before starting a cut (without AAS). Assuming you plan to cut after your cycle.

I may be overthinking this, but I think immediately after PCT probably isn't the best time to start starving the body of calories while hormones are still trying to reach homeostasis.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

Thanks for the replies. I think my point was less than clear. I dont plan to cut while on cycle. I plan to cut after PCT. My question is do you switch from eating and training to bulk to eating and training to cut immediately after you finish PCT or wait a period before starting a cut (without AAS). Assuming you plan to cut after your cycle.

I may be overthinking this, but I think immediately after PCT probably isn't the best time to start starving the body of calories while hormones are still trying to reach homeostasis.

It's not that your overthinking it, rather you're not thinking at all. Skip the cycle entirely and start training for the marathon now. It makes no sense whatsoever to bulk now only to lose everthing and then some immediately afterwards when you start endurance training. It's a waste of time and effort and gear. Seriously, think about it.

 

[THE STORM SHADOW]

Exactly Sensored

I don't care WHEN a person decides to cut.. during or after cycle..the point is... if you're cutting AT ALLLLLLLLLLLL you must have reached your goal on mass or you'll end up a yo yo.... up down up down up down...what a waste.

 

[Millard]

Remember Ben Johnson? Winstrol tabs made him the fastest on earth but that was a sprint. A friend of mine that was training at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs told me the endurance athletes were using HGH and EPO like beezil said. I wouldn't do the eq though.... my calves and shins would get pumped up so easy that it would drop me on my back within minutes with extreme pain during tennis.

In addition... every pound of muscle you put on makes you that much slower...when it comes to distance, your natural weight minus the fat gives you the edge..... HGH and EPO are the only way to go so pick a sport related to running and be good at it or pick something related to bodybuilding and be good at it..... the drugs for each of these style events are not the same.

Also, most people have no idea how small dosages of AAS are used by elite athletes in most sports. Ben Johnson didn't use more than 10-20 mg dianabol or winstrol if I recall. That's it. And he still had problems gaining too much muscle mass (too much in that it compromised his sprinting ability).

Endurance athletes would use any more than that. Those that use testosterone generally use less than replacement dosages of T.

 

[Millard]

Back in the 80's.. a Dr that was prescribing me AAS when it was still legal said to me... pick ONE thing to be good at on AAS you can't live both worlds... pick this up and put it down ORRRRRRRR run your ass off.

Now a conversation with my lifiting partner... he was doing his bulk cycle and asked me "when do you think I should start my cutting cycle?" I said "for what? are you big enough to compete?" him "no" me "then why waste your time and money cutting? it will just dig into your mass cycle and put off your mass goals further and further out".

AAS and endurance activities don't go hand and hand…

It's not that your overthinking it, rather you're not thinking at all. Skip the cycle entirely and start training for the marathon now. It makes no sense whatsoever to bulk now only to lose everthing and then some immediately afterwards when you start endurance training. It's a waste of time and effort and gear. Seriously, think about it.

I don't care WHEN a person decides to cut.. during or after cycle..the point is... if you're cutting AT ALLLLLLLLLLLL you must have reached your goal on mass or you'll end up a yo yo.... up down up down up down...what a waste.

This is all great advice for the goal-directed individual who is interested in the most efficient and fastest way to achieving their ultimate long-term goal. Bodybuilding is a process that can take several years.

Unfortunately, this is not the real world. And most people honestly don't think this way. They don't view bodybuilding (or steroid use) as a lifestyle consisting of achieving one long-term goal. They are simply looking to achieve a series of short-term goals. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with it - as long as they realize that isn't the most efficient way to get where they want to be in the long run.

Most people want to have a six-pack 365 days per year. But they also want to have 30+ in additional LBM too. While they could achieve that within a couple years if they didn't worry so much about the six-pack, the truth is they would rather have a six-pack most of the time and take several additional years to achieve their long-term goal. So, they find some type of compromise between long-term and short-term goals.

 

[Millard]

Im curious as to when you guys start to cut after a bulking cycle. Im thinking of doing an 8 week cycle of test e (500 mg/week) with dbol (25mg/day) for the first 4 weeks, with anastrozole 1mg EOD. Im planning to start tamoxifen approximately 3 weeks after last pin, 20 mg/day for four weeks or as long as needed.

I am also planning on preparing for a half marathon to be held in late October or early November. My plan is to run on off days during the cycle and then really step up the cardio and cut back my lifting to maintenance after the cycle.

So my question is how long after my PCT should I focus my training and diet on maintaining mass before I focus on cutting and training for the half marathon? Assuming my goal is to put on as much muscle as possible during cycle and then cut as much fat as possible while training for the half marathon.

I know there is no clear cut answer to this question, I would just like to hear your opinions based on your experiences.

Thanks

You're very right in that there is no clear-cut answer. Like everyone has already said, this isn't the most efficient way to achieve either goal. Your endurance training will compromise your bodybuilding gains. And bodybuilding will compromise your endurance performance.

But I will share my experience. I have been smitten not only by the bodybuilding bug but also the cycling bug. And there is not a lot of guidance out there for people who want to do both. Cyclists think it's stupid to waste your time on bodybuilding. Bodybuilders think it's stupid to waste your time on cycling.

And they have a point if you want to be really good at either pursuit and especially if you have competitive goals. But if you don't mind being mediocre, then what's the problem.

Of course, I'm the unreasonable person in the room who wants to be good, maybe not great but good, at both for no other reason than I thoroughly enjoy both pursuits. I will likely never compete in a bodybuilding contest and never seriously race. I'm a recreational bodybuilder and a recreational cyclist.

I can't relate to your question about a "cutting" cycle. At least from my experience, the regular addition of so much endurance training entirely eliminates the need for cutting.

Any time I increase my endurance training, I increase my calories. Usually it is not enough and I still lose weight.

I recently made a concerted effort to gain 10lbs of LBM over the past two months while cycling 150miles/week. And I'm leaner.

I may need to gain another 5 lbs because when I increase cycling mileage, the trend will likely reverse. But then again, I may welcome it because cycling is so much easier when you're lighter.

Bottom line is I'm constantly concerned with preserving and increasing LBM. Cutting? How is this possible with endurance training as a staple of your program?

 

[beezil]

when i was competing in Tris and marathons… I was tipping the scales around 150. Towards the end of my competition years i inched up….but, my focus switched to Body Building. Obviously i wasn't really competing…just doing the events.

My brother is currently a pro cyclist.

Last year he was competing at 141. This year he is hovering at 138-140lbs.

NO PED's

AAS can kill your muscles in those type of activities. Oxygen delivery is the key to continually deliver power to the muscles in use.

 

[DieYoungStrong]

Millard I have got the cycling bug too. Trying to put around 150 miles a week on the bike myself. I did my first race May 4th. 75 mile run. Up to that point the farthest I've gone in on trip is 40. Had about 400 riders, some where part of teams. I came in about a half hour behind the teams, but was in aroun 50th. I wasn't expecting to win or anything because I have NO experiance. People were definatly looking at the 220 lb "cyclist" a little funny though . Hell Barry Bonds is a road biker now, and he's down to weighing like 185.

Beezil I know some guys who do Iron man and Ultra-Marathons. They are tiny, and their sport might have more bad health effects then bodybuilding. A lot of these guys develp heart conditions like A-Fib, or so they tell me.

 

[Mr. Joe]

You're very right in that there is no clear-cut answer. Like everyone has already said, this isn't the most efficient way to achieve either goal. Your endurance training will compromise your bodybuilding gains. And bodybuilding will compromise your endurance performance.

But I will share my experience. I have been smitten not only by the bodybuilding bug but also the cycling bug. And there is not a lot of guidance out there for people who want to do both. Cyclists think it's stupid to waste your time on bodybuilding. Bodybuilders think it's stupid to waste your time on cycling.

And they have a point if you want to be really good at either pursuit and especially if you have competitive goals. But if you don't mind being mediocre, then what's the problem.

Of course, I'm the unreasonable person in the room who wants to be good, maybe not great but good, at both for no other reason than I thoroughly enjoy both pursuits. I will likely never compete in a bodybuilding contest and never seriously race. I'm a recreational bodybuilder and a recreational cyclist.

I can't relate to your question about a "cutting" cycle. At least from my experience, the regular addition of so much endurance training entirely eliminates the need for cutting.

Any time I increase my endurance training, I increase my calories. Usually it is not enough and I still lose weight.

I recently made a concerted effort to gain 10lbs of LBM over the past two months while cycling 150miles/week. And I'm leaner.

I may need to gain another 5 lbs because when I increase cycling mileage, the trend will likely reverse. But then again, I may welcome it because cycling is so much easier when you're lighter.

Bottom line is I'm constantly concerned with preserving and increasing LBM. Cutting? How is this possible with endurance training as a staple of your program?

Preserving lean body mass is my concern with training for the half-marathon. My training regimen will be very basic. I'll be running 3-4 days a week at the most while lifting 3 days a week to maintain mass. I understand I will lose some mass which im perfectly okay with.

Im pretty close to where I want to be size wise. Im not trying to walk around 250+. And the endurance training I see solely as a tool to lose fat. I tend to increase calories when I increase cardio or weightlifting volume without much effort and can maintain my current weight while biking 20-30 miles per week and running 5-10 and lifting 3 days per week. That might be different at 15-20 miles per week which is the max I plan to run while training for the half marathon. However, I still think ill have to restrict calories with this regimen if I hope to lose much fat.

 

[Gunrunner]

Preserving lean body mass is my concern with training for the half-marathon. My training regimen will be very basic. I'll be running 3-4 days a week at the most while lifting 3 days a week to maintain mass. I understand I will lose some mass which im perfectly okay with.

Im pretty close to where I want to be size wise. Im not trying to walk around 250+. And the endurance training I see solely as a tool to lose fat. I tend to increase calories when I increase cardio or weightlifting volume without much effort and can maintain my current weight while biking 20-30 miles per week and running 5-10 and lifting 3 days per week. That might be different at 15-20 miles per week which is the max I plan to run while training for the half marathon. However, I still think ill have to restrict calories with this regimen if I hope to lose much fat.

I did something similar to this when I was doing Triathlons and wanted to look jacked. I think you have a good basic plan but the question of when to start may depend on what weight or Bodyfat % you wish to achieve. If it is as simple as losing 20 pound then based on your metabolism you probably want to lose in the range of 1-2 pounds per week. I will say the slower the better. So begin with the end in mind. Runnig a 1/2 marathon in Oct/Nov at what weight? and back the weekly weight loss in from there.

 

[Millard]

when i was competing in Tris and marathons… I was tipping the scales around 150. Towards the end of my competition years i inched up….but, my focus switched to Body Building. Obviously i wasn't really competing…just doing the events.

My brother is currently a pro cyclist.

Last year he was competing at 141. This year he is hovering at 138-140lbs.

NO PED's

AAS can kill your muscles in those type of activities. Oxygen delivery is the key to continually deliver power to the muscles in use.

When I was young I enjoyed competing at everything under 10k. I kinda wished I pushed the limits a little more (maybe with PEDs) before I switched to bodybuilding.

Even now, many years later, I wondered how it would be to race (cycling) after dropping 30-40 lbs. I still wouldn't be anywhere close to 150 but I can only imagine the difference it would make.

Why did you switch from triathlons/marathons to bodybuilding? It sounds like you have endurance in your genes given your brother's success in pro cycling.

 

[Millard]

Millard I have got the cycling bug too. Trying to put around 150 miles a week on the bike myself. I did my first race May 4th. 75 mile run. Up to that point the farthest I've gone in on trip is 40. Had about 400 riders, some where part of teams. I came in about a half hour behind the teams, but was in aroun 50th. I wasn't expecting to win or anything because I have NO experiance. People were definatly looking at the 220 lb "cyclist" a little funny though . Hell Barry Bonds is a road biker now, and he's down to weighing like 185.

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one with dual passions for bodybuilding + cycling!

I enjoy doing both. And now that I have a solid bodybuilding base, I'm not so worried about excessive endurance training destroying my size. Actually, it's much harder to lose size than I thought it would be. I wonder how much better a cyclist I could be if I lost 30 lbs. For now, I'm happy to be the funny-looking cyclist!

 

[Millard]

Im pretty close to where I want to be size wise. Im not trying to walk around 250+. And the endurance training I see solely as a tool to lose fat. I tend to increase calories when I increase cardio or weightlifting volume without much effort and can maintain my current weight while biking 20-30 miles per week and running 5-10 and lifting 3 days per week. That might be different at 15-20 miles per week which is the max I plan to run while training for the half marathon. However, I still think ill have to restrict calories with this regimen if I hope to lose much fat.

The fact that you're close to your size goal is good. Given that, I'm wondering why you're doing a bulk cycle. Wouldn't it be better to cycle specifically to preserve (and possibly modestly increase) LBM while increasing endurance training?

You'll probably compromise a lot more LBM with your current plan especially if you haven't recovered 100% from PCT. I'm not sure that increasing ET during this period will help with recovery.

What is the point of the half-marathon? Since the goal of ET is fat loss, I'm assuming you're not really concerned about your running performance. Is it simply motivation for your fat loss/ET?

 

[beezil]

When I was young I enjoyed competing at everything under 10k. I kinda wished I pushed the limits a little more (maybe with PEDs) before I switched to bodybuilding.

Even now, many years later, I wondered how it would be to race (cycling) after dropping 30-40 lbs. I still wouldn't be anywhere close to 150 but I can only imagine the difference it would make.

Why did you switch from triathlons/marathons to bodybuilding? It sounds like you have endurance in your genes given your brother's success in pro cycling.

Sorry for the BIO…

I started in gymnastics and martial arts early on around 6years of age… tiny tumblers and tae kwon do. as well as, played soccer all through grade school and high school…. Junior and Senior year I ran cross country, track, and swam… as well as, continued training in MA. While cycling in the summers doing Time trials mostly.

all these endurance sports…made military service after high school the natural thing to do… plus it paid for my college.

after seeing conflicts in Somalia and the middle east… i came home to the comfort of my running shoes and bicycles… It was the only thing that would keep my mind off the things that happen in the rest of the world that most people don't see.

To make a long story short…

Yes genetically i have a natural ability to keep going. My heart rate doesn't get very high even under load or elevation.
However, I have to rely on AAS to hover around the 210lb mark as I am now…

To answer your question… what was the catalyst of my yearning to body build… After meeting my wife… who has been a figure and physique competitor for years…I saw how this group of people are so motivated to manipulate their bodies and it intrigued me. The only problem I have is… When i was competing… It was who crossed the finished line first… or who had the fastest times…

In this world… it seems who has the most friends that are judges or who has the most influence over the judges… the grey area is huge. There is none in competitive racing.