Back to the middle east

[RPD]

Soon afterwards, the American lie collapsed. Iraqi weapons of mass destruction were a fairy tale designed to coerce public opinion for the glory of America's oil-interests. Neither Powell nor President Bush had faced international justice for the crime.

Yeah guys, lets spend $500 billion a year so we can sneak back $20 of oil up each soldier's ass...that equates to...$20 million...

Oh, come on. If we went to war for oil then why are my gas prices so goddamned high? Minerals? Economic interests? Our fucking economy is held together with spit and chewing gum. I wish we would go to war for our economy.

Listen to this: How long was our troop build-up in Kuwait, Turkey and other neighboring countries? Approximately six months. The inspections went on for another six months prior to that. Saddam killed tens of thousands of Iranians with chemical weapons in the Iran-Iraq War. He also killed many thousands more with chemical weapons in the Kurdish north. And when we go in (after about a year of fucking around and dick-dancing with inspectors, Saddam knowing all along that we're coming) and find nothing of any NBC resemblance? What about all that shit he used on Iran and the Kurds? Did he shoot off 100% of his stockpile and deplete his caches? Pfft, doubtful. No good dictator would leave himself without a terror weapon to utilize against anyone who threatens his seat. Now, if he knew his reign was over and he was about to be pounding sand, why not make us look like stupid assholes? Cause the rest of the world to distrust us? You can do a lot in a year, especially when you think you have less than a year to do it. Also, especially when a crazy dictator tells you he's going to kill your family if you don't do it fast enough.

That shit was sent/given/sold to Syria. Not even one damned chemical mortar round was found. That's an amazing clean up job, I'd say.

We went to war for his mass-casualty producing terror weapons, but we fucked around for too long and that shit disappeared before we got there. I hear this "war for oil" cum-spit and I have to say something.

Now, doesn't what I just said make more sense than invading a country for a pile of resources that we already have here?

 

[kawilt]

The invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan and inevitable, one way or the other, Syria are not solely about oil. It's a lot more complicated than that. Also, If I remember correctly Bush's April Glaspie conned Hussein into attacking Kuwait. Saddam was a brutal dictator, but we new that all along, his murderous methods kept the country from falling into warring factions, we just turned a blind eye. Have you looked at Iraq recently?

 

[RPD]

The invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan and inevitable, one way or the other, Syria are not solely about oil. It's a lot more complicated than that. Also, If I remember correctly Bush's April Glaspie conned Hussein into attacking Kuwait. Saddam was a brutal dictator, but we new that all along, his murderous methods kept the country from falling into warring factions, we just turned a blind eye. Have you looked at Iraq recently?

Yeah, everything we try to fix with explosions gets more fucked. It's crazy.

[)]

 

[nuncaquite]

Oh, come on. If we went to war for oil then why are my gas prices so goddamned high? Minerals? Economic interests? Our fucking economy is held together with spit and chewing gum. I wish we would go to war for our economy.

Listen to this: How long was our troop build-up in Kuwait, Turkey and other neighboring countries? Approximately six months. The inspections went on for another six months prior to that. Saddam killed tens of thousands of Iranians with chemical weapons in the Iran-Iraq War. He also killed many thousands more with chemical weapons in the Kurdish north. And when we go in (after about a year of fucking around and dick-dancing with inspectors, Saddam knowing all along that we're coming) and find nothing of any NBC resemblance? What about all that shit he used on Iran and the Kurds? Did he shoot off 100% of his stockpile and deplete his caches? Pfft, doubtful. No good dictator would leave himself without a terror weapon to utilize against anyone who threatens his seat. Now, if he knew his reign was over and he was about to be pounding sand, why not make us look like stupid assholes? Cause the rest of the world to distrust us? You can do a lot in a year, especially when you think you have less than a year to do it. Also, especially when a crazy dictator tells you he's going to kill your family if you don't do it fast enough.

That shit was sent/given/sold to Syria. Not even one damned chemical mortar round was found. That's an amazing clean up job, I'd say.

We went to war for his mass-casualty producing terror weapons, but we fucked around for too long and that shit disappeared before we got there. I hear this "war for oil" cum-spit and I have to say something.

Now, doesn't what I just said make more sense than invading a country for a pile of resources that we already have here?

Glad to see this post. To say that conflicts in the east is about oil is just way too fkn intellectually lazy. It sounds good, its anti-american. People love that kinda shit answer. It fits their already made up mind.
I sure as hell dont want the US in Syria. Let our enemies kill one another. This is perfection. They are doing our job for us.

Now, for all the cry babies that are still balling about no chemical weapons in Iraq. And that we went into Afghanistan. RPD is correct, those weapons are now being used in Syria. We knew that was where the weapons went at the time, the dead in Damascus are the proof... But, here is probably the main reason we went over there. (If we are not over there killing the enemy, they will be over here killing us.) Remember Boston? World Trade Centers? Subways and trains all over Europe? They are absolutely intent on killing Westerners/Americans. They are not just shooting US soldiers because US soldiers are over there. They are shooting at them because they are Americans and they fuckin hate Americans/Westerners. These ragheads are raise from birth to hate the west. All radio, television, and mosque propaganda tells them its there job and path to paradise.
Dont try and see them through your eyes. Try and see yourslef through their eyes. They have been raised to have no humanity for you what so ever. There will be no change in their mind set. Its national security to send them all to paradise. All the better that they are currently sending each other to paradise.

 

[kawilt]

I believe the arguments were about nuclear capabilities in Iraq, not chemical weapons. Do you have any idea on how many military satellites were and are deployed over the middle east watching for movements of anything. Also, Iraq had nothing to do with the World Trade Center, so I guess your talking about "ragheads" in general. I do agree that the whole area is totally fucked up, just look at it's history of how it's been carved up and parceled out. There is a lot of hate over there for the west. But your making a mistake by oversimplifying the motives. By the way, just curious, but if we let them all kill each other off, somebody has got to be left standing, who would you like that to be?

 

[nuncaquite]

I believe the arguments were about nuclear capabilities in Iraq, not chemical weapons. Do you have any idea on how many military satellites were and are deployed over the middle east watching for movements of anything. Also, Iraq had nothing to do with the World Trade Center, so I guess your talking about "ragheads" in general. I do agree that the whole area is totally fucked up, just look at it's history of how it's been carved up and parceled out. There is a lot of hate over there for the west. But your making a mistake by oversimplifying the motives. By the way, just curious, but if we let them all kill each other off, somebody has got to be left standing, who would you like that to be?

Nah man, it was chemical weapons in Iraq. Its nuclear in Iran. Hard to keep up, I know. Those countries have all harbored, aided, or turned a blind eye to terrorism against the west. All guilty in my book.
I dont care about their carved and parceled history. I care about the future of families in the Americas most of all.
I do absolutely disagree with regime change (on our part) for any eastern country. We should have continued to beat Hussein, Gaddafi, and the other wardens of those nut houses back into their holes as needed. But to change wardens was a bad idea. Those guys knew how to run their own asylums.

As far as who should be left standing after they kill one another off. I would prefer someone who wont burn Christian churches and other religions temples to the ground, at least not while occupied for the love of Pete. Other than that, I dont care who is left standing. Just as long as they are standing over there.

I served in that part of the world for some years. I know theirs minds. It was hard for me to accept at first, but reality kept hitting me in the face until I learned from it. If we were to truly beat them down hard enough, they will respect us enough to want only that we dont beat them again. Then they will stick to their part of the world and to their local tribal hate. They see negotiation as a kind of surrender. Weakness if you will. So when we try and negotiate a peace with them, they are embolden. With that in mind, lots of this crap is a huge pussified policy fault on our part. Sending our soldiers over there to try and force them to the negotiation table. Its a laugh for them. History shows this much.
Where did I over simplify? Not being a smart ass, Im truly asking.

 

[kawilt]

I just meant that saying their shooting at us because were Americans and they hate Americans/westerners is leaving out the "why" is there so much hate that a people will blow themselves up just to kill us. We have backed almost every oppressive regime at some time or the other that's over there. And like you say, it's a bad idea to change one warden for another. And without getting into the long and drawn out history and view of the middle east, if we "care about the families and the future of Americans" we somehow have to get our asses out of there and let the people of the regions of the middle east decide who they want to rule them (and I don't mean western back insurgents). And last but certainly not least we have to deal with Israel.


The WMD controversy was a mixed bag. Remember Condoleezza Rice mentioning "mushroom shaped cloud"

Remember those “weapons of mass destruction?” How chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons programs were said to be part of Saddam Hussein’s arsenal – posited as the rationale for invading Iraq in the wake of 9/11, along with the belief that the Iraqi dictator somehow was helping Al Qaeda?

Global News Blog: Why Saddam Hussein lied about Iraq's weapons of mass destructio
After a massive US-led invasion in 2003 and 4,486 American service men and women lost in Iraq over the years, the images remain:

Then-Secretary of State Colin Powell holding up a small vial of something meant to look sinister as he addressed the UN Security Council. President George W. Bush’s National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice acknowledging "some uncertainty" in Iraq’s ability to obtain a nuclear weapon but warning, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." Then-CIA Director George Tenet telling President Bush there was a “slam dunk case” regarding such weapons programs in Iraq.

Such weapons were never found. And now, it seems, there’s been a “remarkable CIA mea culpa” regarding those WMD. That’s the conclusion of a report by the National Security Archive at George Washington University.

 

[RPD]

If we are not over there killing the enemy, they will be over here killing us.

In years 600, no Spartan woman has beheld the smoke of the enemy’s fires. By … all the gods and heroes who defend Lakedaemon and by the blood of my own flesh, I swear that our wives and daughters, our sisters and mothers, will not behold those fires now.

I'll just leave this here.

And like you say, it's a bad idea to change one warden for another. And without getting into the long and drawn out history and view of the middle east, if we "care about the families and the future of Americans" we somehow have to get our asses out of there and let the people of the regions of the middle east decide who they want to rule them (and I don't mean western back insurgents)

With all that I said above, I do agree to some extend with this. Syria is not our problem right now. Once it is, let's turn it to glass. But for now, I say get the fuck out and let them have at it.

So when we try and negotiate a peace with them, they are embolden. With that in mind, lots of this crap is a huge pussified policy fault on our part. Sending our soldiers over there to try and force them to the negotiation table. Its a laugh for them. History shows this much.

I absolutely couldn't agree more. They're not in this for a truce of any kind, or for peace for their families. They are in it for martyrdom and the Mahdi.

Our foreign policy is SHIT.

Speak softly, and carry a big stick

What the fuck happened to this kind of thinking? Why the fuck don't we understand our enemies? I'm thinking of a quote by Sun Tzu, but I'll spare you all another quote line.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

What the fuck happened to this kind of thinking? Why the fuck don't we understand our enemies? I'm thinking of a quote by Sun Tzu, but I'll spare you all another quote line.

What happened to that kind of thinking? Political correctness killed it. The enemies of the West have been very clear about why they attack us but we don't/won't believe them. Instead, we grasp for and concoct weak theories like Western oppression and brutal dictators to explain their hatred. We are unable to accept the truth because, in this particular instance, the truth doesn't fit in a politically correct West.

 

[kawilt]

What happened to that kind of thinking? Political correctness killed it. The enemies of the West have been very clear about why they attack us but we don't/won't believe them. Instead, we grasp for and concoct weak theories like Western oppression and brutal dictators to explain their hatred. We are unable to accept the truth because, in this particular instance, the truth doesn't fit in a politically correct West.

Seriously, I think I'm missing something here. What did the enemies of the west say they were attacking us for that we don't or won't believe? and who said what?

 

[nuncaquite]

Seriously, I think I'm missing something here. What did the enemies of the west say they were attacking us for that we don't or won't believe? and who said what?

I just dont care why anymore. I dont care to pay bribery for them not to hate and attack US interest. I dont care who believes or wont believe or whos said what.

Example: If I were to forget to wash the dishes, and cockroaches moved into my house. Admittedly my fault.....I dont care.... Im still going to exterminate the roaches. (yes, that analogy can be picked apart. But you get the drift.) Caring has become the mistake.

 

[maxjake]

Assad was not that stupid.

 

[RPD]

Seriously, I think I'm missing something here. What did the enemies of the west say they were attacking us for that we don't or won't believe? and who said what?

I think, perhaps, he was alluding to the fact that political correctness is the new norm. You can't say that Muslims believe in Jihad, and if you do you must state that true Muslims believe in peaceful Jihad, which is nowhere in the Qur'an.

Our FBI and military manuals have been scrubbed of any reference of violent Islamic radicalism and its link to terrorism because it is not politically correct. Our schools teach our children that Islam is really a religion of peace, and that Christian radicals are just as dangerous. Mosque built on Ground Zero, because they have a right to not be sensitive to Americans, but we must be sensitive to them. Grandma is strip searched by the TSA because profiling unfairly categorizes Arabs as more likely to be a threat. A Muslim Imam (Or, Sheik, or whatever, I don't care) prays a curse over dead DEVGRU operators at their memorial, because we want to be inclusive and look less like crusaders.

It seems that a lot of the sheelple believe that our foreign policy has caused a religion to think that blowing up their children is a good idea. There's no way it's their fault, it's ours, and we have to become more accepting and inclusive.

 

[kawilt]

I'm the last person in the world to be politically correct, and a lot of what your saying is true, I couldn't care less about Jihad's and Qu'rans or what someone believes. but were getting off what I was alluding to originally. We are fucking around again in some other countries political squabbles, wars, differences, etc. etc. Washington said it in his farewell speech to Congress a long time ago.

“The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop.”
He of course was talking about "trade". If they want to sell us oil or widgets and we want to buy them, fine. But we need to get our butts out of there, and out of the other more than 150 or so countries we have troops in.

 

[nuncaquite]

I'm the last person in the world to be politically correct, and a lot of what your saying is true, I couldn't care less about Jihad's and Qu'rans or what someone believes. but were getting off what I was alluding to originally. We are fucking around again in some other countries political squabbles, wars, differences, etc. etc. Washington said it in his farewell speech to Congress a long time ago.

“The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop.”
He of course was talking about "trade". If they want to sell us oil or widgets and we want to buy them, fine. But we need to get our butts out of there, and out of the other more than 150 or so countries we have troops in.

In my opinion, youve been right the entire time. This repeat of history is unbelievable. Im just so sick and tired of terrorism and losing soldiers to this
bullshit. The stupidity just never ends.
What could I not be seeing? How can this continue?

 

[kawilt]

Who was it that said that "The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history" I'm afraid this kind of bullshit will never end. So many young people lost.

 

[nuncaquite]

Who was it that said that "The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history" I'm afraid this kind of bullshit will never end. So many young people lost.

Dude, its not even really history when the mistake repeats every 5 minutes. Just insanity.

 

[RPD]

We can shoot 200 missiles with 500 pound warheads into a country and not declare war? That's got to be pretty close to the damage potential of the WW2 carpet bombing runs...

We're so far from our constitutional origin that we can't even see how lost we are.