AlexDavis43
Member
That's fine. I'll red pen it today. Genuinely.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
HGH Purity and dimer
- Thread starter Bobertson
- Start date
That's fine. I'll red pen it today. Genuinely.
Ghoul
Member
In light of Janoshik confirming a 5%+ rate of peptide vials failing sterility tests, what is the basis for your opposition to ensuring sterility by filtering?
I'll contribute $100 USD in XMR for a video of you releasing vacuum on all your Lobster kits in your steamy bathroom after a long, hot shower. Deal?
Oh shit, ghoul is Elite now. Lmfao!!!
Congrats dude. I'm giving my WKM status back and I just saw your green.
songsofpyramids
Member
Apparently it’s centered around him whining about ChatGPT being used to do research rather than anything of substance… I asked for substance and got a bullshit and intellectually dishonest non-argument crying about AI. For a guy claiming to have a phd his argument is just bad.
Ghoul
Member
The expectation of behaving in a mature manner now makes me feel old, man.
So old.
lol
What, like all the vet Elite members used to do?
You may have to up your game on the leaking jokes now. /s
songsofpyramids
Member
My favorite was an old elite threatening to sexually assault jano’s wife because of a nonissue from 3 years earlier than had been worked out in public but the guy never bothered to follow up on the topic. Classy shit.
Ghoul
Member
It's ironic that the use of "ChatGPT" as a low effort means of dismissing arguments has driven me to overcome my own inertia, and explore its use as an addition to my research toolbox.
An example of why one should seek opposition, because even when insincere or intellectually dishonest, it stimulates growth.
Resistance training for the mind.
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Thank you Sir. Genuinely, let's work together more effectively for the benefit of the forum given our training IRL. That's my earnest wish.
AlexDavis43
Member
What does a 5% failure rate on peptide vial sterility mean for people with a normal immune system?
Remember the PCR/covid controversy? People were saying that the sensitivity of the tests was so high, if one strain of the virus was floating around 2 towns over, it would give a positive result (ie, far less than required for illness or transmission).
Maybe we have something like that with the sterility tests - they're detecting a level that is easily cleared by a normal immune system, otherwise we'd be having a peptide pandemic (1/20 vials would leave a mark!).
Perhaps if we were able to determine a level of sterility above which was likely to cause infection/immune response in healthy people, that 5% would be closer to 0%.
Remember the PCR/covid controversy? People were saying that the sensitivity of the tests was so high, if one strain of the virus was floating around 2 towns over, it would give a positive result (ie, far less than required for illness or transmission).
Maybe we have something like that with the sterility tests - they're detecting a level that is easily cleared by a normal immune system, otherwise we'd be having a peptide pandemic (1/20 vials would leave a mark!).
Perhaps if we were able to determine a level of sterility above which was likely to cause infection/immune response in healthy people, that 5% would be closer to 0%.
songsofpyramids
Member
This feels on par with not caring about floaters in oils to me. Some people are fine with it but I find it gross. No one lost an asscheek but I still find it grody. Different safety profiles for different folks. I’m not willing to gamble with my health by injecting products that could cause health issues even if it’s a remote possibility. It’s the same reason I whipe the top of my vials with rubbing alcohol to avoid the 1 in 5000 chance of it causing serious damage. I have an autoimmune issue so maybe that lowers my threshold for fucking with myself.
AlexDavis43
Member
I wouldn't compare it to floaters (hopefully you know I'd obviously filter it, right? [otherwise you've lost your mind]) but agree with the rest.
It's OK to have different risk tolerances. You made a decision based on the available information and your own health situation. That's fine.
songsofpyramids
Member
Oh I know you’d filter it, haha. Didn’t mean it to seem like I was implying otherwise.
clearheaded
Member
-if varying STERILITY filters have VARYING results this should spark interest that there is some aggregations forming.. (which they do, how much is the question).
-AGAIN, because filtering for sterility(very important step to be sterile) is done in manufacture does not mean ur syringe filters aren't creating more aggregates. remember, its not easy to even test for small aggregates. but yes its an un avoidable thing to filter for sterility, differing methods will produce varying results as cited in many papers.
-dimmer for example is small aggregate is it not? and touted as most dangerous of aggregation??...
-so do you think 8X filtering with 0.2um would cause less or more aggregation? increase or decrease dimmer and aggregation per dose. is that perhaps best practice?
- the article cited is a paper only co authored by real scientist and is a grad project... just to keep perspective on "best science"...
at any rate Thanks @AlexDavis43 for cutting through the mob, and happy to see what jano finds out..
-AGAIN, because filtering for sterility(very important step to be sterile) is done in manufacture does not mean ur syringe filters aren't creating more aggregates. remember, its not easy to even test for small aggregates. but yes its an un avoidable thing to filter for sterility, differing methods will produce varying results as cited in many papers.
-dimmer for example is small aggregate is it not? and touted as most dangerous of aggregation??...
-so do you think 8X filtering with 0.2um would cause less or more aggregation? increase or decrease dimmer and aggregation per dose. is that perhaps best practice?
- the article cited is a paper only co authored by real scientist and is a grad project... just to keep perspective on "best science"...
at any rate Thanks @AlexDavis43 for cutting through the mob, and happy to see what jano finds out..
songsofpyramids
Member
It would help to actually read about this stuff before ranting…
One thing needs to be understood, sterility testing is a really strange test and not so straight forward like: oh so if it comes positive it's unsterile or if it's come negative it's not.
It's not. I'm in a discord that has done plenty of sterility testing and plenty of research on it... As I said not so straightforward. Different methods will yield different results.
So filter a peptide just because you think it could be unsterile it's need to be evaluated against: will I do more harm then good?
Depends is my opinion.
Are you gonna use that whole peptide vial straight after filtration? If yes then it's worth it imho. Aggregates + sterility will be removed and there will.not be anytime for those to recreate and come back with a vengeance.
Are you gonna keep that reconstitued vials for a while? If the answer is yes... I'm not sure filtering is the way to go because if will MAYBE have even more aggregate when you come back to use that peptide again.
That's what I have gathered reading both of you ppl arguing.
Do we have a definitive answer or what I'm saying is fairly certain? Nope.
So we could be both right or wrong or some and some
It's not. I'm in a discord that has done plenty of sterility testing and plenty of research on it... As I said not so straightforward. Different methods will yield different results.
So filter a peptide just because you think it could be unsterile it's need to be evaluated against: will I do more harm then good?
Depends is my opinion.
Are you gonna use that whole peptide vial straight after filtration? If yes then it's worth it imho. Aggregates + sterility will be removed and there will.not be anytime for those to recreate and come back with a vengeance.
Are you gonna keep that reconstitued vials for a while? If the answer is yes... I'm not sure filtering is the way to go because if will MAYBE have even more aggregate when you come back to use that peptide again.
That's what I have gathered reading both of you ppl arguing.
Do we have a definitive answer or what I'm saying is fairly certain? Nope.
So we could be both right or wrong or some and some
songsofpyramids
Member
I filter it immediately prior to use myself. Should have clarified that.
Another important thing is we need to differentiate between peptides, some are very delicate (yeah looking at you HGH) some other are end of the world immune (yeah looking at you GLP-1).
So some you can just filter and forget about it and some other you need to take in consideration different aspects of what you are doing and if it's the best practice for your situation.
Hell some you can reconstitute freeze the liquid, thaw, freeze the liquid, thaw and you still gonna have a not degraded peptide. Some other you do it once and you are injecting dirty water, peptide is almost deatroyed
So some you can just filter and forget about it and some other you need to take in consideration different aspects of what you are doing and if it's the best practice for your situation.
Hell some you can reconstitute freeze the liquid, thaw, freeze the liquid, thaw and you still gonna have a not degraded peptide. Some other you do it once and you are injecting dirty water, peptide is almost deatroyed
AlexDavis43
Member
Seems like the issue of the proposed filtering technique (0.22 um PES) on dimer/aggregates in hGH should be fairly straightforward (keep in mind Jano's testing capacity).
Does Sampei have a sense how quickly they'd reform (eg, quickly to reach a saturation point, or slowly drip together). Like a quick & dirty pilot experiment (for people who use hGH vials in days not months). Not a 1-2-6-12 month time course that doesn't reflect reality.
