Anything on this Mr. Scally?

[MANWHORE]

A friend of mine was taking original Oxycontin tabs many years
ago, until his insurance company stopped paying for them.

He then had to start using generic ones, which did not
work as good at all .. so he tells me.

So, he brought this up to the Pharmacist and was told that
the company .. whoever it was.... that made the originals, was adding
something in the mix, to help the Oxycodone work better.
The generic ones did not have this added to them and why
they didn't work as good as originals. .. Kind of a synergistic effect

Do you know, if this could be happening with Human Grade
anabolics, and why even only 5mg of BTG Var was so strong?

Cause really, if the only thing different about HG and UG is the licenses
then it really isn't worth buying more expensive HG over a solid UG.
Except for re-sale, which to me would move faster to those who
are not thinking like me.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

I do not have any knowledge about the specific context you cite. It is well-known that significant differences can exist between brand and generics. In fact, in the developing countries the brand name is favored for this reason.

 

[MANWHORE]

Yes, there has to be something other than just
a higher level of quality control going on, at these HG Labs.

I don't know if anyone remembers the guy on here
who was a bridge painter in the city .. .NYC who used to
get BTG Var prescribed to him. He swore by it.. Did many different
doses and posted results.. He said even 5mg/day was great for strength
gain..

Well, a friend of mine, gets or was getting those Pharm Grade
Var tabs from his doc. He said they are great and easily stronger than
other UG Vars he used...

He did say that my Var was just as good, though
Yeah, I forgot about this... I was capping mine at 20mg until another
friend told me they were too strong, so I started capping at 10mg
and they were still strong enough for him.. He was taking only one a day..

This was one friend who was already lean but he said my
Var gave him the cuts or brought them out more. It did show
I remember this .

OK, well I did not learn anything new from this

 

[Sworder]

"What are the ingredients of OxyContin?
Active ingredient: oxycodone hydrochloride Inactive ingredients in all strengths: butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT), hypromellose, polyethylene glycol 400, polyethylene oxide, magnesium stearate, titanium dioxide

The 10 mg tablets also contain: hydroxypropyl cellulose.
The 15 mg tablets also contain: black iron oxide, yellow iron oxide, and red iron oxide.
The 20 mg tablets also contain: polysorbate 80 and red iron oxide.
The 30 mg tablets also contain: polysorbate 80, red iron oxide, yellow iron oxide, and black iron oxide.
The 40 mg tablets also contain: polysorbate 80 and yellow iron oxide.
The 60 mg tablets also contain: polysorbate 80, red iron oxide and black iron oxide
The 80 mg tablets also contain: hydroxypropyl cellulose, yellow iron oxide and FD&C Blue #2/Indigo Carmine Aluminum Lake
Always check to make sure that the medicine you are taking"
- http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/DrugSafety/UCM208530.pdf

 

[Sworder]

Can any of those inactive ingredients lead to better absorption, has to be something in the inactive ingredients which lead to increased lipid solubility which in-turn makes small intestine absorption higher?? Or is it maybe just a higher bioavailability of the active substance? Thought or guesses would be appreciated

 

[kpaulson]

One possibility might be that raw oxandrolone powders from china are faked or cut with other fillers because they are so expensive. Thus needing a higher dose?

 

[MANWHORE]

Yes this can happen but that doesn't cover
all the other HG products dominating the UGs who use
good powder .. and the Generic vs Original Oxys I mentioned

Now looking back, I never got the results from
any amount of UG test compared to the 250mg of Mex Sost Pre-loads
I did every 5 days many years back.

My back hurts from sitting this way. I have to take a shower

 

[kpaulson]

This is a very good point.. I must say Im clueless in this case. Let the research begin!

 

[kpaulson]

Edit, I agree with you on the generic oral medications, I get different results from generics and brand medications for oral medications, but branded or UGL test e, I've gotten similar results with both..

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/EmergencyPreparedness/BioterrorismandDrugPreparedness/ucm134444.htm

 

[kpaulson]

Edit, I agree with you on the generic oral medications, I get different results from generics and brand medications for oral medications, but branded or UGL test e, I've gotten similar results with both..

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/EmergencyPreparedness/BioterrorismandDrugPreparedness/ucm134444.htm

Generics are not required to replicate the extensive clinical trials that have already been used in the development of the original, brand-name drug. These tests usually involve a few hundred to a few thousand patients. Since the safety and efficacy of the brand-name product has already been well established in clinical testing and frequently many years of patient use, it is scientifically unnecessary, and would be unethical, to require that such extensive testing be repeated in human subjects for each generic drug that a firm wishes to market. Instead, generic applicants must scientifically demonstrate that their product is bioequivalent (i.e., performs in the same manner) to the pioneer drug.
One way scientists demonstrate bioequivalence is to measure the time it takes the generic drug to reach the bloodstream and its concentration in the bloodstream in 24 to 36 healthy, normal volunteers. This gives them the rate and extent of absorption-or bioavailability-of the generic drug, which they then compare to that of the pioneer drug. The generic version must deliver the same amount of active ingredients into a patient's bloodstream in the same amount of time as the pioneer drug.
Using bioequivalence as the basis for approving generic copies of drug products was established by the Drug Price Competition and Patent Term Restoration Act of 1984, also known as the Hatch-Waxman Act. Brand-name drugs are subject to the same bioequivalency tests as generics when their manufacturers reformulate them.

 

[Sworder]

Absolute bioavailability is the term in pharmacology which is measured as the active ingredient passes through the digestive system into the circulatory system.
Relative bioavailability is used to distinguish brand name drugs vs generic.

I would believe that is the difference. The more I read about it the more drugs this seems to be the case with.

 

[RonnyT]

There are many different factors that influence the effect and potency of drugs. Some stacks work synergistic just like some ingredients.
Lets take Viagra as an example oral, it works on about 70% of the man that use them. On a discussionforum the remaining 30% would make alotta noise if it would be a brand roid instead of a sexual performance enhancer. And..Viagra is influenced by food and should therefore be taken on an empty stomach..did all of you know that?? And..if you want to make out you mostly have taken a few alcoholic beverages, which influencesViagra also. ( better use cialis)
An article (still under construction) Influences on the halflife and potency of steroids | JuicedMuscle.com

Grapefruit Juice Can Interact With Medicines!


Original Medical Author: William C. Shiel, Jr, MD, FACP, FACR
Medical Editor: Jay W. Marks, MD

A nutraceutical is a food or part of a food that allegedly provides medicinal or health benefits, including the prevention and treatment of disease. Grapefruit juice has been touted as containing many compounds that can reduce hardening of the arteries (atherosclerosis) and even the risk of cancer. Grapefruit juice can, therefore, be justifiably referred to as a classic nutraceutical. However, for many persons taking certain medications, grapefruit juice might actually better be termed a "nutrapollutical!"

It turns out that grapefruit juice can directly or indirectly interact in important ways with a number of medications. This is especially important since grapefruit juice is consumed by approximately one fifth of Americans for breakfast - a time of the day when medications also are commonly taken.

Grapefruit juice blocks special enzymes in the wall of the small intestine that actually destroys many medications and prevents their absorption into the body. Thus, smaller amounts of the drugs get into the body than are ingested. When the action of this enzyme is blocked, more of the drugs get into the body and the blood levels of these medications increase. This can lead to toxic side effects from the medications.

Amazingly, this remarkable food-drug interaction was discovered completely by accident over a decade ago! Researchers were investigating whether alcohol could interact with felodipine (Plendil) and used a solution of alcohol with grapefruit juice to mask the taste of alcohol for the study. Researchers discovered that blood levels of felodipine were increased several fold more than in previous studies. This increased blood level caused an increase in the effect and side effects of felodipine. Further research revealed that the grapefruit juice itself was actually increasing the amount of the study drug in the body.

Research about the interaction of grapefruit juice with drugs suggests that compounds in grapefruit juice, called furanocoumarins (for example, bergamottin), may be responsible for the effects of grapefruit juice. Researchers believe that furanocoumarins block the enzymes in the intestines that normally break down many drugs. One glass of grapefruit juice could elicit the maximum blocking effect, and the effect may persist for longer than 24 hours. Since the effects can last for such a prolonged period of time, grapefruit juice does not have to be taken at the same time as the medication in order for the interaction to occur. Therefore, unlike similar interactions, where the interaction can be avoided by separating the administration of the two interacting agents by a couple of hours, administration of grapefruit juice with susceptible drugs should be separated by 24 or more hours to avoid the interaction. Since this is not practical for individuals who are taking a medication daily, they should not consume grapefruit juice when taking medications that are affected by grapefruit juice.

The grapefruit juice-drug interaction can lead to unpredictable and hazardous levels of certain important drugs.

 

[MANWHORE]

I just heard a ton of grapefruit juice has
to be drank .. Drank? Anyway, someone would have
to drink a shitload in order for it to affect a drug or have
it last longer in system before being broken down.

What does this have to do with HG vs UG?

 

[RonnyT]

initially the discusion was about bioavailability, as you can read in the article, bioavailability and pharmokokinetics are influenced by solvents carriers etc. HG uses human grade solvents UG can use what ever they please and since the bb community requires high doses and low prices, they use exotic solvents and cheap chemicals and oils in order to make some profit. In Europe UG labs sell their products for rediculous prices, it can never contain what the label claims, let alone contain human grade carriers oils solvents and co-solvents.

HG = known pharmacokinetics - ingredients- doses- fair pricing
downside of HG ...accourding to scientific research of the Dutch balckmarket over 60% of all HG steroids are counterfeits (wich basicly makes them UG)
UG = unknown pharma/ingredients/doses-much cheaper