Low Test for 18 year old?

[Douche_Nutz]

I have a very shitty libido for being a college kid. It's nothing like it use to be... It really sucks to barely be able to get it up for girls and sometimes not be able to at all after I have several drinks. Even when I don't, my libido is crap. Anyways, I am concerned about low test, and I had it tested by my doc this week. I'm on Wellbutrin for depression but feel I also have other symptoms of low test besides a lacking libido and depression including lethargy and the fact that I'm turning 19 in a month and haven't even started growing facial hair..

Free test came back as 359ng/dl with the labs range being 241-827ng/dl for normal. Isn't it a little strange that an 18 year old would have a free test level that low? I've considered that I may be overtraining, but I've had most of these symptoms for over a year. I DO plan on taking a week of now, though. Another blood test is possible after that.

I suppose I should mention that I was anorexic years ago - fucked me up, and I'm hesitant to pin my libido problems on that because I think my body has basically recovered but who knows?

 

[Glaim]

I'm 19 and had test in the range of 50-200. You need more blood work done...there's a sticky at the top of SWALE's labwork.

 

[James]

At your age, I had the same list of symptoms, and the same T level. However, 5 years later, at 23, I STILL have that exact same list of symptoms. Therefore, I have no solid reccomendations.

I can say, though, to watch for the people who blame it on the anti-depressants. I have not been on any for years, and those symptoms will not lift. Plus, I contriute to contest that most of my depression stems FROM the symptoms, and not the other way around.

If I were to reccomend one thing for your age: stay on a therapy for at least three months before you assess its value to you!

I reccomend this mainly because it may be the one thing I have never done. (And I've done literally everything else I could about this!) If a particular dose or regimen didn't work for me within a month, I switched it up. The reason was because I needed to get fixed FAST. I was losing girlfriend and after girlfriend and my quality of life is and was zero. Now that I'm basically in a shithole of health and a social life because of my deficiency, I guess I can afford to sit around and pick my ass and wait for my hormones to "normalize." I wanted to feel 23 while I was 23, but I guess that idea is out the window.

Isn't if funny when people on other messageboards will reccomend a regimen and then say, "It'll make you feel like you're in your 20's again!" -- the cruel irony!

I'll also warn you about stuff people won't tell you. Either because they're much older and already experiencing the symptoms of age, or because they have a shaved head, you won't hear much from people about hair loss. It can happen! It happened to me and I was known for having EXTREMELY healthy, thick, shny, pretty damn long, and almost oriental hair. It thinned like CRAZY on HRT. It fell out in clumps in the shower. Never came back, either.

Also, watch for gynecomastia and weight gain. I didn't get painful nipples, but I did grow the fat and put on tons of water weight.

Finally, I am going to justify my reccomendation of "stay on it for three months" with a theory. Since you and I are so young, our bodies are much more "in control" of our hormones. With older males, T and and estrogen get "out of whack", if you will, as the body looses control and the ability to maintain its ideals. Being so young, our bodies are much more resistant to changes from the outside. So, it takes longer for us to get the same response as the older guys.

I sure as hell hope I'm right. I'm pretty much banking on that to save my pathetic ass.

 

[Random987]

Hey DN,

Do you have insurance? Will your doctor order some more labs? Check out the sticky up stop and get some more numbers to compare. There could be a lot of things going on, high Estrogen/E2, prolactin issues, etc. How are you sleeping? Do you snore a lot? Are you a big guy? Sleep apena could be an issue.

Have your doctor run the hormone labs, the thyroid labs and then we (and your doctor) can evaluate. You are definately low for a 19 year old and you have symptoms of hypogonadism. Hopefully your doctor will work with you to get to bottom of things.

I have a very shitty libido for being a college kid. It's nothing like it use to be... It really sucks to barely be able to get it up for girls and sometimes not be able to at all after I have several drinks. Even when I don't, my libido is crap. Anyways, I am concerned about low test, and I had it tested by my doc this week. I'm on Wellbutrin for depression but feel I also have other symptoms of low test besides a lacking libido and depression including lethargy and the fact that I'm turning 19 in a month and haven't even started growing facial hair..

Free test came back as 359ng/dl with the labs range being 241-827ng/dl for normal. Isn't it a little strange that an 18 year old would have a free test level that low? I've considered that I may be overtraining, but I've had most of these symptoms for over a year. I DO plan on taking a week of now, though. Another blood test is possible after that.

I suppose I should mention that I was anorexic years ago - fucked me up, and I'm hesitant to pin my libido problems on that because I think my body has basically recovered but who knows?

 

[Douche_Nutz]

Hey DN,

Do you have insurance? Will your doctor order some more labs? Check out the sticky up stop and get some more numbers to compare. There could be a lot of things going on, high Estrogen/E2, prolactin issues, etc. How are you sleeping? Do you snore a lot? Are you a big guy? Sleep apena could be an issue.

Have your doctor run the hormone labs, the thyroid labs and then we (and your doctor) can evaluate. You are definately low for a 19 year old and you have symptoms of hypogonadism. Hopefully your doctor will work with you to get to bottom of things.

Thanks for the reply Random. Insurance and costs are not a problem. I sleep OK. Lots of times I have trouble getting myself settled down and relaxed enough to sleep, but that's about it. I'm not a big guy by any means.

I checked out the sticky, but could you advise me on what tests exactly I should get? Just thyroid and hormone labs?.. I may need to go to a new doctor.

 

[luke77]

At your age, I had the same list of symptoms, and the same T level. However, 5 years later, at 23, I STILL have that exact same list of symptoms. Therefore, I have no solid reccomendations.

I can say, though, to watch for the people who blame it on the anti-depressants. I have not been on any for years, and those symptoms will not lift. Plus, I contriute to contest that most of my depression stems FROM the symptoms, and not the other way around.

If I were to reccomend one thing for your age: stay on a therapy for at least three months before you assess its value to you!

I reccomend this mainly because it may be the one thing I have never done. (And I've done literally everything else I could about this!) If a particular dose or regimen didn't work for me within a month, I switched it up. The reason was because I needed to get fixed FAST. I was losing girlfriend and after girlfriend and my quality of life is and was zero. Now that I'm basically in a shithole of health and a social life because of my deficiency, I guess I can afford to sit around and pick my ass and wait for my hormones to "normalize." I wanted to feel 23 while I was 23, but I guess that idea is out the window.

Isn't if funny when people on other messageboards will reccomend a regimen and then say, "It'll make you feel like you're in your 20's again!" -- the cruel irony!

I'll also warn you about stuff people won't tell you. Either because they're much older and already experiencing the symptoms of age, or because they have a shaved head, you won't hear much from people about hair loss. It can happen! It happened to me and I was known for having EXTREMELY healthy, thick, shny, pretty damn long, and almost oriental hair. It thinned like CRAZY on HRT. It fell out in clumps in the shower. Never came back, either.

Also, watch for gynecomastia and weight gain. I didn't get painful nipples, but I did grow the fat and put on tons of water weight.

Finally, I am going to justify my reccomendation of "stay on it for three months" with a theory. Since you and I are so young, our bodies are much more "in control" of our hormones. With older males, T and and estrogen get "out of whack", if you will, as the body looses control and the ability to maintain its ideals. Being so young, our bodies are much more resistant to changes from the outside. So, it takes longer for us to get the same response as the older guys.

I sure as hell hope I'm right. I'm pretty much banking on that to save my pathetic ass.

Hi James,
I'm curious about the gyno and fat gain that you talk about. I thought that generally when trt is initiated the opposite happens (that is, fat loss and increase in muscle mass). I'm going to be changing my treatment soon to go on a higher dose of test. but this comment makes me extremely nervous...could you elaborate please? Oh, btw, I am also very young (20 yrs. old).

Thanks in advance,
Luke

 

[Random987]

These should give you a good picture of where you are:

Total Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone (sometimes called Free and Loosely Bound)
Free Testosterone (if Bio T is not available)
SHBG
DHT
Estradiol (specify by the Extraction Method or Ultra-Sensitive)
Total Estrogens
LH
FSH
Prolactin
Cortisol
Thyroid Panel (TSH, FT3, FT4)
CBC
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
Lipid Panel
Homocysteine
IGF-1 (if HGH therapy is desired)

Thanks for the reply Random. Insurance and costs are not a problem. I sleep OK. Lots of times I have trouble getting myself settled down and relaxed enough to sleep, but that's about it. I'm not a big guy by any means.

I checked out the sticky, but could you advise me on what tests exactly I should get? Just thyroid and hormone labs?.. I may need to go to a new doctor.

 

[SWALE]

I have seen, and treated, a couple of cases like yours.

I treated them with low-dose TRT, then gradually weaned them down. In both cases, therapy was successful.

My theory is that the problem actually dealt with leptin levels.

 

[Douche_Nutz]

Thanks for the reply Swale.

Is my doctor a fool for not thinking those test levels are horrible?

Would a low test at this level help explain how I've had a horrible time gaining muscle even when gaining weight with what I believe is good diet, training, and sleep?

Anyways, next week I hope to get all of those tests done and maybe there will be a difference with a week off of training.

 

[Glaim]

Were they by any chance overweight or ever overweight in the past?

I have seen, and treated, a couple of cases like yours.

I treated them with low-dose TRT, then gradually weaned them down. In both cases, therapy was successful.

My theory is that the problem actually dealt with leptin levels.

 

[HeadDoc]

Thanks for suggesting the relationship. The following may be useful in understanding the mechanisms involved. One of the young guys suffering with this posted very low CHO levels. I thought that the low CHO may also be involved in low test levels.




The long-term effect of recombinant methionyl human leptin therapy on hyperandrogenism and menstrual function in female and pituitary function in male and female hypoleptinemic lipodystrophic patients.

Musso C, Cochran E, Javor E, Young J, Depaoli AM, Gorden P.

Clinical Endocrinology Branch, NIDDK, National Institute of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892-1770, USA. carlam@intra.niddk.nih.gov

Lipodystrophy patients are hypoleptinemic and insulin resistant. Women have enlarged polycystic ovaries, hyperandrogenism, and amenorrhea. We have determined the role of correction of hypoleptinemia on these metabolic and neuroendocrine parameters. Ten females and 4 males with generalized lipodystrophy were treated with recombinant methionyl human leptin (r-metHuLeptin) in physiologic doses in an open-labeled study for a period of 12 and 8 months, respectively. In the female group, serum free testosterone decreased from 39.6 +/- 11 to 18.9 +/- 4.5 ng/dL (P < 0.01) and serum sex hormone binding globulin increased from 14 +/- 2.5 to 25 +/- 4.8 nmol/L (P < 0.02). Luteinizing hormone (LH) responses to LH releasing hormone were more robust after therapy and significantly changed in the youngest group of 3 female patients (P < 0.01). Ovarian ultrasound showed a polycystic ovarian disease pattern in all patients and did not change after therapy. Eight of the 10 patients had amenorrhea prior to therapy and all 8 developed normal menses after therapy. In the male group, serum testosterone tended to increase from 433 +/- 110 to 725 +/- 184 ng/dL (P = 0.1) and sex hormone binding globulin also increased from 18.25 +/- 2.6 to 27 +/- 1.7 nmol/L (P < 0.04) following r-metHuLeptin therapy. Serum LH response to LH releasing hormone did not show significant changes. Five additional hypoleptinemic male subjects with minimal metabolic abnormalities underwent normal pubertal development without receiving r-metHuLeptin therapy. In both genders, insulin-like growth factor increased significantly and there were no differences in growth hormone, thyroid, or adrenal hormone levels following r-metHuLeptin therapy. Glycemic parameters significantly improved after r-metHuLeptin therapy in both groups. Hypoglycemic medications were discontinued in 7 of 12 patients and dramatically reduced in 5 patients. r-metHuLeptin therapy plays an important role in insulin sensitivity. In females, it plays an additional role in normalizing menstrual function. This is likely to occur both from increasing insulin sensitivity and from restoring LH pulsatility. The persistent hypoleptinemic state in these subjects did not inhibit pubertal development.

Publication Types:

 

[mranak]

Few doctors are willing to run the long list of labs that SWALE runs. It would be good to get another free testosterone, estradiol (not the normal estradiol test, but the most sensitive/accurate one available), prolactin and thyroid.

 

[earthdog]

Few doctors are willing to run the long list of labs that SWALE runs. It would be good to get another free testosterone, estradiol (not the normal estradiol test, but the most sensitive/accurate one available), prolactin and thyroid.

I agree with mranak, especially since assays for total T are notoriously for being off by as much as 50%.

 

[earthdog]

Thanks for suggesting the relationship. The following may be useful in understanding the mechanisms involved. One of the young guys suffering with this posted very low CHO levels. I thought that the low CHO may also be involved in low test levels.




The long-term effect of recombinant methionyl human leptin therapy on hyperandrogenism and menstrual function in female and pituitary function in male and female hypoleptinemic lipodystrophic patients.

Musso C, Cochran E, Javor E, Young J, Depaoli AM, Gorden P.

Clinical Endocrinology Branch, NIDDK, National Institute of Health, Bethesda, MD 20892-1770, USA. carlam@intra.niddk.nih.gov

Lipodystrophy patients are hypoleptinemic and insulin resistant. Women have enlarged polycystic ovaries, hyperandrogenism, and amenorrhea. We have determined the role of correction of hypoleptinemia on these metabolic and neuroendocrine parameters. Ten females and 4 males with generalized lipodystrophy were treated with recombinant methionyl human leptin (r-metHuLeptin) in physiologic doses in an open-labeled study for a period of 12 and 8 months, respectively. In the female group, serum free testosterone decreased from 39.6 +/- 11 to 18.9 +/- 4.5 ng/dL (P < 0.01) and serum sex hormone binding globulin increased from 14 +/- 2.5 to 25 +/- 4.8 nmol/L (P < 0.02). Luteinizing hormone (LH) responses to LH releasing hormone were more robust after therapy and significantly changed in the youngest group of 3 female patients (P < 0.01). Ovarian ultrasound showed a polycystic ovarian disease pattern in all patients and did not change after therapy. Eight of the 10 patients had amenorrhea prior to therapy and all 8 developed normal menses after therapy. In the male group, serum testosterone tended to increase from 433 +/- 110 to 725 +/- 184 ng/dL (P = 0.1) and sex hormone binding globulin also increased from 18.25 +/- 2.6 to 27 +/- 1.7 nmol/L (P < 0.04) following r-metHuLeptin therapy. Serum LH response to LH releasing hormone did not show significant changes. Five additional hypoleptinemic male subjects with minimal metabolic abnormalities underwent normal pubertal development without receiving r-metHuLeptin therapy. In both genders, insulin-like growth factor increased significantly and there were no differences in growth hormone, thyroid, or adrenal hormone levels following r-metHuLeptin therapy. Glycemic parameters significantly improved after r-metHuLeptin therapy in both groups. Hypoglycemic medications were discontinued in 7 of 12 patients and dramatically reduced in 5 patients. r-metHuLeptin therapy plays an important role in insulin sensitivity. In females, it plays an additional role in normalizing menstrual function. This is likely to occur both from increasing insulin sensitivity and from restoring LH pulsatility. The persistent hypoleptinemic state in these subjects did not inhibit pubertal development.

Publication Types:

Sorry HeadDoc, this went right over my head. I was lost after the first word (Lipodystrophy). What does this study mean? And what is CHO?

 

[Douche_Nutz]

I got back my complete blood results from the first test today. Can someone check them over for me? The ranges are to the right of my results

WBC - 4.7 (3.5-10.5)
RBC - 4.80 (4.32-5.72)
HGB - 15 (13.5-17.5)
HCT - 43.7 (41-52)
MCV - 91 (80-97)
MCH - 31.2 (27-31.2)
MCHC - 34.3 (31.8-35.4)
PLT - 215 (142-424)
RDW - 12.6 (11.6-14.8)
NEU% - 54.1 (37-80)
LYM% - 29.5 (10-50)
MONO% - 12.1 (0-12)
EOS% - 3.8 (0-7)
BASO% - 0.5 (0-2.5)
NEU - 2.5 (2-6.9)
LYM - 1.4 (0.6-3.4)
MONO - 0.6 (0-0.9)
EOS - 0.2 (0-0.7)
BASO - 0.0 (0-0.2)
HTSH II - 1.52 (0.30-5.00)
Glucose - 93 (70-110)
BUN - 33 (8-24)
Creatinine - 1.2 (0.7-1.2)
Sodium - 143 (135-145)
Potassium - 4.5 (3.5-5.0)
Chloride - 110 (98-109)
CO2 - 25 (21-31)
Calcium - 8.8 (8.7-10.2)
GFR Male - 83.8 (90-125)
FREE T4 - 0.76 (0.60-1.64)

 

[Random987]

In addition to what I posted on AL earlier, taking a new look at your labs, there are a few interesting things...the below tests are related to kidney function and may indicate some issues with the kidneys.


BUN - 33 (8-24)
Creatinine - 1.2 (0.7-1.2)
GFR Male - 83.8 (90-125)

Some signs of kidney issues:

* fatigue (tiredness)
* poor appetite
* nausea
* itching all over
* a bad taste in the mouth
* confusion

Are you getting enough water? Dehydration may lead to skewed results.

 

[Douche_Nutz]

I don't have any of those symptons but my guess would be that I'm getting too much protein in my diet. I think I drink more than enough water, but I'll bump it up.

 

[Random987]

Yeah, I was just going to mention the protein aspect. That could definately be it.

I don't have any of those symptons but my guess would be that I'm getting too much protein in my diet. I think I drink more than enough water, but I'll bump it up.

 

[earthdog]

Hopefully your doctor noticed the kidney issues and is looking into it??

 

[Douche_Nutz]

Hopefully your doctor noticed the kidney issues and is looking into it??

Nope, he just had the nurse call me and say everything looked good.

Now I have to call and talk with his idiotic ass on Monday and explain why I more tests done.