big descision to make

[masterpp]

hey guys,

as some of the lads who have supported and advised me will remember, ive been holding out on trt because ive been trying to bank sperm.

im glad i waited, as after 6 months from my varicocele embolization, my sperm count has started to return to normal (2-3 million) which though lowish is better than the zero i had before the procedure.

so now the question is do i hold out longer, to wait and see if i can get even better improvments, and ultimately perhaps see if my balls can sort themselvev,es or should i go back on the trt.

the second part of my question is therefor whether hcg will be strong enough to support any testicular regrowth and improvment.

ie can i have my cake and eat it. get the benefits of trt, and let hcg do its job and promote testicular regrowth.

the problem is i dont know if hcg will be good enough to do that. the sensible person in me, thinks that as ive had improvments so far, it might be better to just wait longer and see what happens, without going on the trt.

what do you guys think

 

[mxim]

for fertility,i would go with clomid contrary to what some mght say., with clomid you are producing lh naturally and causing no negative feedback as you would with hcg. clomid at 50mgs per day and then get tested. clomid does also have a small effect on fsh as well.

 

[pmgamer18]

hey guys,

as some of the lads who have supported and advised me will remember, ive been holding out on trt because ive been trying to bank sperm.

im glad i waited, as after 6 months from my varicocele embolization, my sperm count has started to return to normal (2-3 million) which though lowish is better than the zero i had before the procedure.

so now the question is do i hold out longer, to wait and see if i can get even better improvments, and ultimately perhaps see if my balls can sort themselvev,es or should i go back on the trt.

the second part of my question is therefor whether hcg will be strong enough to support any testicular regrowth and improvment.

ie can i have my cake and eat it. get the benefits of trt, and let hcg do its job and promote testicular regrowth.

the problem is i dont know if hcg will be good enough to do that. the sensible person in me, thinks that as ive had improvments so far, it might be better to just wait longer and see what happens, without going on the trt.

what do you guys think

If you can and don't feel to bad I would wait longer you never know if you go back on TRT.

 

[Axl]

hey guys,

as some of the lads who have supported and advised me will remember, ive been holding out on trt because ive been trying to bank sperm.

im glad i waited, as after 6 months from my varicocele embolization, my sperm count has started to return to normal (2-3 million) which though lowish is better than the zero i had before the procedure.

so now the question is do i hold out longer, to wait and see if i can get even better improvments, and ultimately perhaps see if my balls can sort themselvev,es or should i go back on the trt.

With the results you recently got; I would wait and see. I would gladly invest 6 months of waiting to see if my body could restart itself. Even if it didn't work out the way you wanted, you will have the absolute certainty that you gave it its best shot.

the second part of my question is therefor whether hcg will be strong enough to support any testicular regrowth and improvment.

ie can i have my cake and eat it. get the benefits of trt, and let hcg do its job and promote testicular regrowth.

the problem is i dont know if hcg will be good enough to do that. the sensible person in me, thinks that as ive had improvments so far, it might be better to just wait longer and see what happens, without going on the trt.

what do you guys think

1. I would only start using HCG after the extra 6 months of waiting.

2. The reaction one has to HCG depends on each individual case. I have used HCG for some years now. If have seen men that react extremely well to it, their balls get bigger and start producing a lot of T. Their T-levels spike at even small dosages of HCG. But there are other where the HCG just cannot stimulate the testes enough. In my case, mega-dosages of HCG (= kick start protocol: 1500IU every 3 days for a few weeks) only got my T-levels up from 220 ng/dl to 410 ng/dl. So I use the HCG for testicular stimulation (keeping the cells I have left stimulated and preventing the testicular atrophy), but I can't use it as a standalone therapy, nor will it be powerfull enough to restart me again... Bottom line: nobody can tell you how your body will react to the HCG: you'll have to test it and then...wait and see.

 

[masterpp]

very sensible advice from all of you

thank you

the general consensus seems to be that each man is different, and that hcg may not be strong enough to give my balls what they need (if there is going to be any improvment.

in any event ive banked sperm so now i can try out a few things like DIM without worrying about fertility too much at present

 

[masterpp]

guys any one else had any thoughts on this issue.

its a big decision to make, and basically im asking whether going on hcg/trt would compromise these positive testicular imporvments ive experienced.

cheers

 

[maverick_2414]

Masterpp,
I am new to the MESO boards but might be able to help here to give you my perspective. My wife and I were trying for over 2 years to have another child (we have a son) and we always thought it was her bc she had some female issues. Went to the fertility doc. Turned out I was secondary hypo as well. My sperm analysis showed like 10 million in one count and 20 in another. Very low according to the fert doc. He put me on clomid for a few weeks. I got dizzy with headaches etc. He then put me on HCG 10,000ius a week and WOW what a difference. Libido came back, balls filled back out, etc. Did another sperm analysis after like 6-8 weeks and I was up to 98 million. Got my wife pregnant within 3 months of going on HCG! I did not notice any negative sides on HCG except some sore nipples occasionally. I thought the upsides of HCG were awesome - no depression, increasse in libido, workouts awesome, etc. Bottom line: it got my testicles working normal again and i had my sex life back. As I read on here, I don't know if it will help you bc we are all different but I would definitely recommend you try it before giving up. Our fertility doc did not want me near testosterone until we were pregnant and my wife was through her first trimester. He said it might permanently shut my testes down. emphasis on might. We ended up not needing to bank sperm but were going to do IVF if needed. Are you banking sperm for the future or are you trying to have children now? BTW, I am now on TRT. On 10% compound gel 1mg a day plus 125ius of HCG daily. I hope this helps you. Feel free to ask more questions. I am happy to try to help you as much as I can! Having a child is an incredible blessing. thanks, Hank

 

[masterpp]

im actually only 19
so banking was a big decision to make, but im glad i did because now i can experiment a little.

basically after a procedure i had 6 months ago, i have felt some testicular improvments. my concern is that hcg wont be strong enough to maintain these developments

if i could carry on feeling the same improvments im getting at the moment, slowly improving sperm count, increasing testicular size, then i would definately go on hcg,. my concern is that the hcg wont be strong/efficient enough to give me the same improvments that i am feeling as a result of the improved blood flow to my testis

 

[masterpp]

guys im so sorry to be taking up time and bandwidth ect, but i really need your advice and a straight ish answer.

do you think that my supposed testicular improvments will continue under with hcg/trt. will the hcg be enough to maintain the stimulation and regeneration i am experiencing at the moment, because if you dont think it will, i will stay clear of trt, despite its obviouse benefits.

cheers

 

[Matt Muscle]

Masterpp,
I am new to the MESO boards but might be able to help here to give you my perspective. My wife and I were trying for over 2 years to have another child (we have a son) and we always thought it was her bc she had some female issues. Went to the fertility doc. Turned out I was secondary hypo as well. My sperm analysis showed like 10 million in one count and 20 in another. Very low according to the fert doc. He put me on clomid for a few weeks. I got dizzy with headaches etc. He then put me on HCG 10,000ius a week and WOW what a difference. Libido came back, balls filled back out, etc. Did another sperm analysis after like 6-8 weeks and I was up to 98 million. Got my wife pregnant within 3 months of going on HCG! I did not notice any negative sides on HCG except some sore nipples occasionally. I thought the upsides of HCG were awesome - no depression, increasse in libido, workouts awesome, etc. Bottom line: it got my testicles working normal again and i had my sex life back. As I read on here, I don't know if it will help you bc we are all different but I would definitely recommend you try it before giving up. Our fertility doc did not want me near testosterone until we were pregnant and my wife was through her first trimester. He said it might permanently shut my testes down. emphasis on might. We ended up not needing to bank sperm but were going to do IVF if needed. Are you banking sperm for the future or are you trying to have children now? BTW, I am now on TRT. On 10% compound gel 1mg a day plus 125ius of HCG daily. I hope this helps you. Feel free to ask more questions. I am happy to try to help you as much as I can! Having a child is an incredible blessing. thanks, Hank

How long were you on 10000 ius of hCG a week for? How much hCG were you taking each day?
Looks like high dosages of hCG can be productive.

 

[mranak]

for fertility,i would go with clomid contrary to what some mght say., with clomid you are producing lh naturally and causing no negative feedback as you would with hcg. clomid at 50mgs per day and then get tested. clomid does also have a small effect on fsh as well.

masterpp is an extreme case of primary hypogonadism. Clomid is not a viable solution for him.

masterpp: You need a full round of bloodwork before making a decision.

 

[masterpp]

will be posted by thursday.

cheers chaps

 

[masterpp]

results in

Hey guys here are the latest blood tests, taken after about a month on nettle root, intended to lower SHBG, and thus free up testosterone.

The results aren’t great and I have included the previouse (before nettle root) results for comparison.

Old results: taken 6 weeks ago, before nettle root

DHEAS 5.3 micromol/l (2.8-12)
Serumsex hormn binding glob 63.8 nmol/l (13-71)
Plasma oestradiol 121 PMOL/l (less than 191)
plasma fsh 61.8 iu/l (obviously seriously high
plasma lh 28.2 (1.5-9.3)
plasma testosterone 11.6 nmol/l (8.4-28.7)


New results, taken a week ago (most recent)
Plasma oestradiol 202 PMOL/l (less than 191)
plasma fsh 65.8 iu/l (obviously seriously high
plasma lh 38.2 (1.5-9.3)
plasma testosterone 11.4 nmol/l (8.4-28.7)
Plasma prolatcin 336 mU/l (45-375)

Cortisol 839 nmol/l (180-620)

As you can imagine im pretty disappointed by these results. Obviously the DHEA and SHBG are of crucial importance, but the results weren’t sent through and the practise is closed.

Interestingly, my gp seemed to think that my SHBG this time was within range.
Is it possible therefore, that my elevated oestradiol was due to the lowering of SHBG (having exactly the opposite effect I wanted- I wanted to free up testosterone, not estrogen).

So there are a few points to mention.
1. im generally very unhappy with the results, as the lh and fsh has gone back up again, and total testosterone has stayed the same.

2. im worried about why all of a sudden the oestradiol jumped up so much. I think it might depend on when I get my SHBG result back

3. cortisol and prolactin, both of which are the first time ive had these tests are very elevated. What does it mean and what should I do about.

Basically as you can imagine im very disappointed. I had a good week, in which I managed to bank sperm after a long time off trt, and then I get these crappy results, which may be my own fault due to taking nettle root to try and lower shbg, having the opposite effect to the one I wanted

I don’t really know what to do. Id rather not go on trt, obviously, and the fact my sperm count improved so much suggested to me that I didn’t have to.
But now ive got these crappy results, and more over the whole lowering shbg doesn’t seem to have worked.

I also don’t know how I would react to hcg, whether or not it would be strong enough to maintain the testicular improvements I think ive been experience.

Any advice and support would be much appreciated.

Cheers guys.
(ps ill post DHEA and SHBG as soon as I get them)

 

[maverick_2414]

How long were you on 10000 ius of hCG a week for? How much hCG were you taking each day?
Looks like high dosages of hCG can be productive.

Matt,
I was on 10,000 ius twice a week IM. It definitely had an positive impact on me mentally as well as physically. Once we got pregnant, I went to 500ius three times a week. Now I am on TRT with 125 ius a day plus 1mg test. gel (10% from compounding pharmacy). thanks, Hank

 

[mranak]

Re: results in

masterpp: I suggest you give a low dose of testosterone a try as we've already discussed. In your particular case, it just might work and if it does work, then I think that may be a satisfactory solution for you. And don't use hCG if you go that route. The idea is that you won't need hCG because your body still still be releasing LH since the exogenous testosterone won't bring you to your setpoint and your body will need to make the rest of the testosterone itself.

 

[masterpp]

Re: results in

i think thats a very smart idea mranak. i guess a half dossage. unless im super absorbant i guess that hopefully it shouldnt raise me too much, just up to normal levels/

you know what, ive banked sperm so its not the end of the world if i turn off the hpta briefly, as long as it resumes functioning.

i guess ill give a half daily dosage a try. but mranak have you any thourghts about why my results are so crazy, particularly the cortisol and estrogen.

do you think my trying to lower shbg led to a raise in oestradiol

 

[masterpp]

Re: results in

i think thats a very smart idea mranak. i guess a half dossage. unless im super absorbant i guess that hopefully it shouldnt raise me too much, just up to normal levels/

you know what, ive banked sperm so its not the end of the world if i turn off the hpta briefly, as long as it resumes functioning.

i guess ill give a half daily dosage a try. but mranak have you any thourghts about why my results are so crazy, particularly the cortisol and estrogen.

1. do you think my trying to lower shbg led to a raise in oestradiol.

2. but also how is the set point determined. how does the body know when it has enough testosterone. does the body recognise exogenous testosterone and just shut off, or is it a question of it knowing how much it needs.

3. the thing i dont understand is that some men go on trt, and their total t actually drops to lower than it was before, because their hpta shuts off.
that doesnt make sense to me as surely if there total t was lower than before their hpta should be maintained as they are not at the correct levels.
any thoughts

 

[mranak]

Re: results in

i guess ill give a half daily dosage a try. but mranak have you any thourghts about why my results are so crazy, particularly the cortisol and estrogen.

do you think my trying to lower shbg led to a raise in oestradiol

Cortisol changes significantly throughout the day. Your overall cortisol may very well be in the normal range. Only way to really know if a 24-hour urine assay.

I consider it possible that your supplements have given rise to your oestradiol.

 

[masterpp]

Re: results in

the cortisol isnt super elevated is it though. some people have like a condition where the cortisol is like 3 times normal.

however i still would like to lower it.
Mranak have you seen my other post asking about the hpta:some of the guys on the other topic seem to think that toping up doesnt work. i dont understand why doing a small dosage would turn off the hpta. Mranak can you have a look at the other topic for me.

ta