Restart something to consider?

[Bridger]

I am a 25 yr old male, been on TRT for 3 years, began in 2007. When diagnosed my total test levels were around 120. In 2004 a total test level was in the 500 range. I don't have the blood work handy but could locate if requested. At the time of diagnosis/beginning treatment i had been sober for about 6 months(opiates and cocaine), poor eating, sleeping, and exercise habits, and had been on Suboxone for 2 years at that point. Which i learned inhibits test production, after i stopped using it. Also worth noting, i did a deca/dbol cycle with no pct a few months before starting on Suboxone, that was in 2005.

Fast forward to now...I exercise regularly, eat healthy, sleep regularly. No illicit drug use, do take psychiatric meds for bipolar and testosterone, etc. My life has improved dramatically in the last few years, married, school, work, etc. However, I wonder if i really need testosterone. I'd rather not deal with all of the side effects, cost, and worry of an additional medication if i don't have to.

From the information presented, is a restart something worth considering?

 

[Michael Scally MD]

I am a 25 yr old male, been on TRT for 3 years, began in 2007. When diagnosed my total test levels were around 120. In 2004 a total test level was in the 500 range. I don't have the blood work handy but could locate if requested. At the time of diagnosis/beginning treatment i had been sober for about 6 months(opiates and cocaine), poor eating, sleeping, and exercise habits, and had been on Suboxone for 2 years at that point. Which i learned inhibits test production, after i stopped using it. Also worth noting, i did a deca/dbol cycle with no pct a few months before starting on Suboxone, that was in 2005.

Fast forward to now...I exercise regularly, eat healthy, sleep regularly. No illicit drug use, do take psychiatric meds for bipolar and testosterone, etc. My life has improved dramatically in the last few years, married, school, work, etc. However, I wonder if i really need testosterone. I'd rather not deal with all of the side effects, cost, and worry of an additional medication if i don't have to.

From the information presented, is a restart something worth considering?

It is definitely worthy of consideration. It is not critical to the treatment for restoration, but your statements overlap regarding opiate use and Suboxone treatment. I am assuming this was a period of struggling with sobriety. It is now ell documented that opiates cause hypogonadism.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

I am a 25 yr old male, been on TRT for 3 years, began in 2007. When diagnosed my total test levels were around 120. In 2004 a total test level was in the 500 range. I don't have the blood work handy but could locate if requested. At the time of diagnosis/beginning treatment i had been sober for about 6 months(opiates and cocaine), poor eating, sleeping, and exercise habits, and had been on Suboxone for 2 years at that point. Which i learned inhibits test production, after i stopped using it. Also worth noting, i did a deca/dbol cycle with no pct a few months before starting on Suboxone, that was in 2005.

Fast forward to now...I exercise regularly, eat healthy, sleep regularly. No illicit drug use, do take psychiatric meds for bipolar and testosterone, etc. My life has improved dramatically in the last few years, married, school, work, etc. However, I wonder if i really need testosterone. I'd rather not deal with all of the side effects, cost, and worry of an additional medication if i don't have to.

From the information presented, is a restart something worth considering?

Suboxone PI

 

[Bridger]

It is definitely worthy of consideration. It is not critical to the treatment for restoration, but your statements overlap regarding opiate use and Suboxone treatment. I am assuming this was a period of struggling with sobriety. It is now ell documented that opiates cause hypogonadism.

yes it definitely was a struggle for sometime.

I don't believe i was truly hypogonadal. I believe it was due to the suboxone.

I have read about restarts but since i wasn't actually considering it at the time it wasn't something i really researched. What kind of timeframe and medications are involved in restoration? Do you have a link giving an overview of the process?

 

[Pericles]

Bridger,

I like to do HCG/Clomid/AI,Nolvadex restarts myself, but many consider them unnecessary (but usually we are talking about much older men who are definitely on TRT for life).

More importantly, you are in a recovery program like NA/AA, yes? That is the most important thing, because your addiction is waiting patiently and doing push ups to stay in shape.

 

[Bridger]

Bridger,

I like to do HCG/Clomid/AI,Nolvadex restarts myself, but many consider them unnecessary (but usually we are talking about much older men who are definitely on TRT for life).

More importantly, you are in a recovery program like NA/AA, yes? That is the most important thing, because your addiction is waiting patiently and doing push ups to stay in shape.

no, i don't attend those meetings. I tried for sometime to get into them but they didn't do it for me. Individual therapy has been the ticket for me. Identifying and recognizing triggers and how to effectively handle them. Along with keeping myself working towards a goal, like education, exercise, etc. I am doing squats and deadlifts so Im not too worried about the monkey and his puffed up chest

 

[Michael Scally MD]

yes it definitely was a struggle for sometime.

I don't believe i was truly hypogonadal. I believe it was due to the suboxone.

I have read about restarts but since i wasn't actually considering it at the time it wasn't something i really researched. What kind of timeframe and medications are involved in restoration? Do you have a link giving an overview of the process?

The starting point is to be re-evaluated. It is of no use to go over this in your head, act! The first step is an evaluation. There may or may not be a problem. After the evaluation, consider the options. [I do not think Suboxone is a cause, but if it is a possibility, have you thought about stopping or adding TRT?]

 

[Bridger]

The starting point is to be re-evaluated. It is of no use to go over this in your head, act! The first step is an evaluation. There may or may not be a problem. After the evaluation, consider the options. [I do not think Suboxone is a cause, but if it is a possibility, have you thought about stopping or adding TRT?]

Let me clarify, I have been OFF suboxone since fall of 2007. And have been on TRT since spring of 2007.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Let me clarify, I have been OFF suboxone since fall of 2007. And have been on TRT since spring of 2007.

By all means, if you are sober, it is my opinion, to check for HPTA functionality. What about the testing that placed you on TRT. Was it done while on Suboxone or opiates?

 

[Bridger]

By all means, if you are sober, it is my opinion, to check for HPTA functionality. What about the testing that placed you on TRT. Was it done while on Suboxone or opiates?

yes i was on suboxone for those blood tests. And was just not engaged in healthy habits period. Poor diet, sleep patterns, no exercise.

 

[Rushed77]

I'm in the same position as OP, except i'm ABOUT to start TRT.
Age is 22..
Test levels around 230.. I am on 2mg suboxone per day. I have chronic pain from skeletal asymmetry and a surgery that tried to correct it (initially sucessfull before bone graft collapsed and hardware failed, subsequent surgery was a failure).

Now my hardware from surgery number 2 broke.

When i got off suboxone a few months ago and on clomid test went up to 900, horny all the time. However, I relapsed on painkillers because of my chronic pain. When off suboxone and no clomid test was around 500.. up to 600 with really healthy habits/diet/sleep.
However, i need to be on suboxone until I can get a 3rd surgery to fix my malunion/nonunion. Then taper off pain meds, then quit the testosterone and attempt restart.
Does this sound good? I'll probably be using HCG 3x per week at 250 mg.

OP, how did things work out for you? I'm also thinking about banking sperm, since my Dr says there is a small risk of infertility. LMK what you guys think!

 

[Michael Scally MD]

I'm in the same position as OP, except i'm ABOUT to start TRT.
Age is 22..
Test levels around 230.. I am on 2mg suboxone per day. I have chronic pain from skeletal asymmetry and a surgery that tried to correct it (initially sucessfull before bone graft collapsed and hardware failed, subsequent surgery was a failure).

Now my hardware from surgery number 2 broke.

When i got off suboxone a few months ago and on clomid test went up to 900, horny all the time. However, I relapsed on painkillers because of my chronic pain. When off suboxone and no clomid test was around 500.. up to 600 with really healthy habits/diet/sleep.
However, i need to be on suboxone until I can get a 3rd surgery to fix my malunion/nonunion. Then taper off pain meds, then quit the testosterone and attempt restart.
Does this sound good? I'll probably be using HCG 3x per week at 250 mg.

OP, how did things work out for you? I'm also thinking about banking sperm, since my Dr says there is a small risk of infertility. LMK what you guys think!

First, get the opiate use under control (stopped), then worry about the rest (stopping TRT). Yes, you should be on TRT w or w/ hCG.

 

[Rushed77]

Well i feel as if i'll need opiates one way or another for the next few months, especially during surgery. I'm seeing a urologist tomorrow who i've seen in the past and discussed injections. He says he uses HCG at like 2500 units 2 or 3x per week, i asked if i could try a lower dose and he said that would be fine.

What dose would you recommend? I weigh about 160 lbs, around 13 % bodyfat..

since my surgery ive gone from 8% bodyfat and deadlifting 350 lbs , weighted dips and pullups with 2 plates for reps to now having trouble walking.. really sucks.. i have been exercising with rings (muscle ups/pullups) and working on handstands/pushups with some parallel pvc bars i made, but i cannot work my lower body for fear of exacerbating the injury.

I'm excited to see how my body reacts to the testosterone and i'll probably keep a log with my limited workout, as well as healing.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

I was not implying to go without the opiates, but to make progress in your healthcare so they are not needed.

 

[Rushed77]

So i'm on 50mg cypionate per week (2g vial at 200mg/ml),
Also on 250 IU HCG 2x per week.

Dunno if cost is allowed; if so will add. But from costco i can get, at my current dosage, 10 months of TRT 50$ .
however, the HCG was dosed 500iu/mL instead of the normal 1000iu/mL, still same amount of mL, and the cost is the same (95usd) either ay. So next time I will get a 20 week supply (500 IU per week) from a 10mL vial of the same price.

Do I need to worry about the HCG potency, because pharmacist mentioned it after about 10 weeks.

Also, i did 150mg week 1 and 2, get labs week 5, so will not shoot week 3, then wlil do 50 as normal.. wanted to feel effects of high test and i have.. now wanna see where this and hcg gets me . Hopefully a total of maybe 300mg test wont mess things up.

Also, i dropped a full 200mg (1ml) because the needle fell off syringe.. im used to insulin pins which are stuck. Sucked.. Anyways. I'll post bloods as I get them, as well as semen count.