Endocrine_Supply
New Member
Here is a re-post for those that missed it last week.
Ive been involved in the underground TDS field ever since it became popular. Ive spent time on Anabolicminds.com, Bodybuiding.com, Avantlabs.com, T-mag, and any forum where 'alternative delivery systems' may have been a hot topic. Ive used just about every type of TDS, topical, transdermal product on the market so I can speak for all of them. (Yes, Ive also used a my fair share of injectable products.) ;-)
With most current underground transdermal formulas validated research is hard to find. There are some so many factors to consider with different subjects, drugs, environments, climate, ect. Generally one must rely on the consensus of accidental and personal evidence in order to estimate actual drug absorbed with various TDS preparations.
With the below estimated absorption rates Ive done my best to provide average real world estimates' that may or may not have any medical research to back them up. For the sake of my article Im going to keep things simple and just present some basic background information on transdermals & AASs along with my rebuttal to the usual things people say about transdermal application. All the below information is true to the best of my personally collected knowledge.
Here are some molecular weights of different steroid molecules (largest to smallest). As you can see the esterfied steroid molecules are the largest. For all practical purposes it is best not to use a steroid that is esterfied or more than 300 daltons for transdermal application. The bigger the molecule the harder it is to pass through the skin.
Testosterone propionate 344.5
Trenbolone acetate 312.4
Methenolone base 302.6
Testosterone base 288.4
Boldenone base 286.4
Nandrolone base 274.4
Trenbolone base 270.4
Most guys are only aware of the archaic and harsh methods of DMSO permeation enhancement. Experience with this method has left users disappointed and irritated (literally) by the results of using such a harsh and smelly solvent. It is widely considered that the average absorption rate in a 24hr period is no better than 25% with the popular trenbolone acetate molecule. Perhaps better absorption could be seen (30-40%) with a smaller steroid molecule. Some may cry out that it may be possible to get up to 90% absorption out of DMSO however this is unlikely since most people are not willing to apply sand paper to the skin while spending the day in a sauna! My rating for DMSO is 4.
Other methods include the use of isopropyl alcohol/myristate. The first formula that comes to mind is the topical Biotest product called Androsol (4-androstendiol). This was a semi-popular product for those that chose to use legal pro-hormones. Users that wanted to take the topical technology one step further opted for the Finasol version. This originally was the illegal homebrew version of Androsol where finaplix-H pellets (trenbolone acetate) were crushed and added to the mix. The Finasol concoction soon became the second most popular way of using fina pellets without DMSO. Isopropyl alcohol/myristate left the skin dry but it was still gentler and it did not posses the offensive garlic smell of the DMSO method. Unfortunately, it also suffered from a low absorption rate probably no better than 20% with any steroid molecule. My rating for a simple alcohol formula is 5.
There have been other and more successful attempts with Phlogel (pluronic lecithin organogel). This is a gentle transdermal carrier that offered decent absorption rates through its two-phase hydrophilic and lipophilic components. Bioavailibilty is estimated at about 30% with most steroid molecules (MW 270-300). Unfortunately Phlogel can often be hard to come by in the USA being that a prescription is required making this option unfeasible for most BBs. My rating for Phlogel is a 6.
Androgel was one of the first transdermal gels approved for hormone replacement in humans. Androgel delivers testosterone base with about 15% efficiency. This is a simple and outdated ethanol and isopropyl myristate gel based type formula. Because of its high cost and low absorption rate Androgel is practically useless to bodybuilders looking to achieve high levels of androgens. Unfortunately, transdermal critics will often refer to this pharmaceutical preparation and assume that its impossible to get better than 15% absorption with ANY transdermal preparation simply because the mainstream medical field hasnt approved of a more effective method. Please dont assume that Androgel is as good as it gets with transdermal technology cause its not. Rest assured that the FDA is so overwhelmed and backlogged with new ground breaking TDS technology that it will probably be another 5 years before any new breakthrough technology is tested and approved for human use. Anyway, I rate Androgel as a 3.
I have seen many other homebrew methods come and go that have included all of the above permeation enhancers plus the addition of many more solvents, emollients, fatty acids, amines, ect. Some people have claimed that their custom formulas have 50% absorption or better. However, Ive seen many failed attempts at putting together a super formula by simply combining as many permeation enhancers as possible and hoping for the best. This method should best be avoided as combining the wrong enhancers could lead to a less bioavailable solution where various enhancers would actually handicap each other. There have been some formulas that have came across as being semi-effective but most are not readily available and cost for preparation has been too prohibitive to even consider. I rate the current homebrews 4-6.
TDS-288 is a newly developed vicious solution thats consisted of a unique combination of solvents and multiple organic delivery reagents that work in a two-phase colloidal system to create a very effective yet gentle delivery system through the skin. TDS-288 however has no burn, lingering smell, or irritation of the skin and it is entirely invisible. The permeation enhancing components in TDS-288 trap the moisture in the top epidermis layer of the skin allowing free diffusion through the stratum corneum to allow systemic circulation of the hormone. TDS-288 is also the first transdermal to include an antibiotic/antiseptic to combat airborne pathogens that may pass through the skin unknowingly. The formula has been proven to have a delivery rate of up to 78% with molecules of a MW of 270< on synthetic silicon skin. Most un-esterfied (base) steroid molecules have a MW of 300 or less making them ideal components for a TDS system. I rate my formula a 10. You will all get a chance to here what my testers say soon enough. ;-)
Now here are some things I hear people say about AASs and Transdermals and my thoughts on them:
Injectables are more efficient and reliable than transdermals.
Based purely on bioavailability this is theoretically true. By residing on the laws of diffusion and considering the current transdermal technology it seems that injection is our constant while TDS technology is our undefined variable. Injection is 100% while transdermal technology lies somewhere between 0-100%, Right? Wrong.
TDS-288 has a very reasonable absorption rate of at least 50% for the testosterone molecule. Dosages are pre-figured at 50% and are clearly labeled on the bottle.
Plus, injection is not always 100%. One must always remember the weight of the ester.
let me give an example for the newbies:
Lets say Joe injects 100mg of testosterone undecanoate. After subtracting the weight of the ester he is actually administering about 60mg of testosterone.
Then lets say Bill applies 100mg of testosterone base (TDS-288) on the skin. After he absorbs 60% he is actually administering 60mg of testosterone.
With the above scenario each subject used the same mg amount and they still received the same amount of testosterone. Fair enough?
It is easiest to control hormone levels with long acting ester injectables.
This is not necessarily true either.
It is a known fact that long acting esters (cypionate, enanthate, decanoate) will give a steady rise of hormone levels from the time of injection. After they reach there peak levels they will slowly begin to decline. A slow decline in hormone levels is generally undesirable for a steroid user who is seeking a fast recovery. The lingering exogenous hormones are the last thing a user wants in their body at the end of a cycle as they further suppress the HTPA while no longer making gains. Fast clearance of hormones post cycle should be a priority, as it will ensure a prompt recovery of natural testosterone production.
For instance if one where to run a testosterone cypionate cycle and inject every 4 days in an attempt to keep levels stable the hormone levels would look something like this notice the blood level flux and slow clearance (check GRAPH attachment below)
If one where to use TDS-288 with a 2x/application protocol the hormone levels would look something like this notice the rapid build up and clearance of the blood levels (check GRAPH attachment below)
The point is that hormone levels can be controlled much easier without an ester present. This is one of the benefits of using testosterone suspension (or other base hormones). Of course the obvious downfall of using test suspension are the daily pricks of the body and the crystalline deposits that the injections leave behind. Ouch!
Remember, TDS-288 can be effectively used for short OR long cycles and the fast clearance times can benefit the user in both types of cycles.
Transdermals are messy and smelly.
The brief smell of alcohol is the ONLY smell associated with TDS-288. The formula dries within minutes and leaves behind healthy feeling moisturized skin. No garlic smell, no rash, no problems.
Transdermals are more expensive than injectables and they are not as effective.
After you figure the price of IM testosterone suspension, pins, and painkillers you will see that TDS-288 will be very competitively priced.
As far as effectiveness, Im going to have 8 meso bros test my product in the up coming weeks and openly give their unbiased opinion on TDS-288. Once I ship the testing units we should have some feedback on the boards by 05\15\04.
Transdermals suck!
This entirely depends on the cost/effectiveness ratio. How much are you spending to safely inject 1gm of test into your body? Can I beat that price with my TDS?
For pricing and ordering info please refer to my list in the MESO classifieds.
For all Frequently asked question about the TDS please visit this link >
See you all around bros. -ES
----Here is an article I wrote for my meso bros to give some background transdermal info, some insight into my new product I will be selling on meso called TDS-288, and some defense in the name of transdermals. Some of this info you will already know and some info will be new. Enjoy bros, and gimme your feed back.----
Ive been involved in the underground TDS field ever since it became popular. Ive spent time on Anabolicminds.com, Bodybuiding.com, Avantlabs.com, T-mag, and any forum where 'alternative delivery systems' may have been a hot topic. Ive used just about every type of TDS, topical, transdermal product on the market so I can speak for all of them. (Yes, Ive also used a my fair share of injectable products.) ;-)
With most current underground transdermal formulas validated research is hard to find. There are some so many factors to consider with different subjects, drugs, environments, climate, ect. Generally one must rely on the consensus of accidental and personal evidence in order to estimate actual drug absorbed with various TDS preparations.
With the below estimated absorption rates Ive done my best to provide average real world estimates' that may or may not have any medical research to back them up. For the sake of my article Im going to keep things simple and just present some basic background information on transdermals & AASs along with my rebuttal to the usual things people say about transdermal application. All the below information is true to the best of my personally collected knowledge.
MW of popular steroid molecules
Here are some molecular weights of different steroid molecules (largest to smallest). As you can see the esterfied steroid molecules are the largest. For all practical purposes it is best not to use a steroid that is esterfied or more than 300 daltons for transdermal application. The bigger the molecule the harder it is to pass through the skin.
Testosterone propionate 344.5
Trenbolone acetate 312.4
Methenolone base 302.6
Testosterone base 288.4
Boldenone base 286.4
Nandrolone base 274.4
Trenbolone base 270.4
Here is some TDS (transdermal) background information and my personal rating for various transdermal methods (1-10):
Most guys are only aware of the archaic and harsh methods of DMSO permeation enhancement. Experience with this method has left users disappointed and irritated (literally) by the results of using such a harsh and smelly solvent. It is widely considered that the average absorption rate in a 24hr period is no better than 25% with the popular trenbolone acetate molecule. Perhaps better absorption could be seen (30-40%) with a smaller steroid molecule. Some may cry out that it may be possible to get up to 90% absorption out of DMSO however this is unlikely since most people are not willing to apply sand paper to the skin while spending the day in a sauna! My rating for DMSO is 4.
Other methods include the use of isopropyl alcohol/myristate. The first formula that comes to mind is the topical Biotest product called Androsol (4-androstendiol). This was a semi-popular product for those that chose to use legal pro-hormones. Users that wanted to take the topical technology one step further opted for the Finasol version. This originally was the illegal homebrew version of Androsol where finaplix-H pellets (trenbolone acetate) were crushed and added to the mix. The Finasol concoction soon became the second most popular way of using fina pellets without DMSO. Isopropyl alcohol/myristate left the skin dry but it was still gentler and it did not posses the offensive garlic smell of the DMSO method. Unfortunately, it also suffered from a low absorption rate probably no better than 20% with any steroid molecule. My rating for a simple alcohol formula is 5.
There have been other and more successful attempts with Phlogel (pluronic lecithin organogel). This is a gentle transdermal carrier that offered decent absorption rates through its two-phase hydrophilic and lipophilic components. Bioavailibilty is estimated at about 30% with most steroid molecules (MW 270-300). Unfortunately Phlogel can often be hard to come by in the USA being that a prescription is required making this option unfeasible for most BBs. My rating for Phlogel is a 6.
Androgel was one of the first transdermal gels approved for hormone replacement in humans. Androgel delivers testosterone base with about 15% efficiency. This is a simple and outdated ethanol and isopropyl myristate gel based type formula. Because of its high cost and low absorption rate Androgel is practically useless to bodybuilders looking to achieve high levels of androgens. Unfortunately, transdermal critics will often refer to this pharmaceutical preparation and assume that its impossible to get better than 15% absorption with ANY transdermal preparation simply because the mainstream medical field hasnt approved of a more effective method. Please dont assume that Androgel is as good as it gets with transdermal technology cause its not. Rest assured that the FDA is so overwhelmed and backlogged with new ground breaking TDS technology that it will probably be another 5 years before any new breakthrough technology is tested and approved for human use. Anyway, I rate Androgel as a 3.
I have seen many other homebrew methods come and go that have included all of the above permeation enhancers plus the addition of many more solvents, emollients, fatty acids, amines, ect. Some people have claimed that their custom formulas have 50% absorption or better. However, Ive seen many failed attempts at putting together a super formula by simply combining as many permeation enhancers as possible and hoping for the best. This method should best be avoided as combining the wrong enhancers could lead to a less bioavailable solution where various enhancers would actually handicap each other. There have been some formulas that have came across as being semi-effective but most are not readily available and cost for preparation has been too prohibitive to even consider. I rate the current homebrews 4-6.
TDS-288 is a newly developed vicious solution thats consisted of a unique combination of solvents and multiple organic delivery reagents that work in a two-phase colloidal system to create a very effective yet gentle delivery system through the skin. TDS-288 however has no burn, lingering smell, or irritation of the skin and it is entirely invisible. The permeation enhancing components in TDS-288 trap the moisture in the top epidermis layer of the skin allowing free diffusion through the stratum corneum to allow systemic circulation of the hormone. TDS-288 is also the first transdermal to include an antibiotic/antiseptic to combat airborne pathogens that may pass through the skin unknowingly. The formula has been proven to have a delivery rate of up to 78% with molecules of a MW of 270< on synthetic silicon skin. Most un-esterfied (base) steroid molecules have a MW of 300 or less making them ideal components for a TDS system. I rate my formula a 10. You will all get a chance to here what my testers say soon enough. ;-)
Now here are some things I hear people say about AASs and Transdermals and my thoughts on them:
Injectables are more efficient and reliable than transdermals.
Based purely on bioavailability this is theoretically true. By residing on the laws of diffusion and considering the current transdermal technology it seems that injection is our constant while TDS technology is our undefined variable. Injection is 100% while transdermal technology lies somewhere between 0-100%, Right? Wrong.
TDS-288 has a very reasonable absorption rate of at least 50% for the testosterone molecule. Dosages are pre-figured at 50% and are clearly labeled on the bottle.
Plus, injection is not always 100%. One must always remember the weight of the ester.
let me give an example for the newbies:
Lets say Joe injects 100mg of testosterone undecanoate. After subtracting the weight of the ester he is actually administering about 60mg of testosterone.
Then lets say Bill applies 100mg of testosterone base (TDS-288) on the skin. After he absorbs 60% he is actually administering 60mg of testosterone.
With the above scenario each subject used the same mg amount and they still received the same amount of testosterone. Fair enough?
It is easiest to control hormone levels with long acting ester injectables.
This is not necessarily true either.
It is a known fact that long acting esters (cypionate, enanthate, decanoate) will give a steady rise of hormone levels from the time of injection. After they reach there peak levels they will slowly begin to decline. A slow decline in hormone levels is generally undesirable for a steroid user who is seeking a fast recovery. The lingering exogenous hormones are the last thing a user wants in their body at the end of a cycle as they further suppress the HTPA while no longer making gains. Fast clearance of hormones post cycle should be a priority, as it will ensure a prompt recovery of natural testosterone production.
For instance if one where to run a testosterone cypionate cycle and inject every 4 days in an attempt to keep levels stable the hormone levels would look something like this notice the blood level flux and slow clearance (check GRAPH attachment below)
If one where to use TDS-288 with a 2x/application protocol the hormone levels would look something like this notice the rapid build up and clearance of the blood levels (check GRAPH attachment below)
The point is that hormone levels can be controlled much easier without an ester present. This is one of the benefits of using testosterone suspension (or other base hormones). Of course the obvious downfall of using test suspension are the daily pricks of the body and the crystalline deposits that the injections leave behind. Ouch!
Remember, TDS-288 can be effectively used for short OR long cycles and the fast clearance times can benefit the user in both types of cycles.
Transdermals are messy and smelly.
The brief smell of alcohol is the ONLY smell associated with TDS-288. The formula dries within minutes and leaves behind healthy feeling moisturized skin. No garlic smell, no rash, no problems.
Transdermals are more expensive than injectables and they are not as effective.
After you figure the price of IM testosterone suspension, pins, and painkillers you will see that TDS-288 will be very competitively priced.
As far as effectiveness, Im going to have 8 meso bros test my product in the up coming weeks and openly give their unbiased opinion on TDS-288. Once I ship the testing units we should have some feedback on the boards by 05\15\04.
Transdermals suck!
This entirely depends on the cost/effectiveness ratio. How much are you spending to safely inject 1gm of test into your body? Can I beat that price with my TDS?
For pricing and ordering info please refer to my list in the MESO classifieds.
For all Frequently asked question about the TDS please visit this link >
See you all around bros. -ES
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