3-4 shots of HCG, and my second round of Clomid... Nuts still small Help!!!!

[jdawg50]

Hey
Took my last shot on 6/4/2004 over 2 months ago. I did a gram of cyp, 600mgs of EQ, for 16 weeks. Then I did 50 of Winny ed for 5 weeks(Last five weeks on the other gear). I hit Clomid 50mg's and 20mg's of Nov for about 3-4 weeks + I hit three shots of 500iu HCG each week I was on the clomid. I started a second round of Clomid about a week ago, and just hit another 500iu HCG today. What's the deal guys? My nut are back a little bit, and THey are a bit harder, but they are still tiny... WTF???? How long does a guy have to wait. No problems with hard ons or anything. I had sex this am and rubbed one out this afternoon??? Sooo its not like I dont have test in me? Any suggestions?

 

[occam]

Lay off the HCG and up the Clomid.

 

[vikings]

at this point I would just do Nolva @ 40wk1 20wk2 20wk3
you don't need that much hcg it will convert to estrogen thereby counteracting ur pct. doing what u did had an adverse reation on whta u were trying to do, and it is not uncommon that some have to run the pct all over again

peace
let us know

 

[Xander_Cage]

I'd say the exact opposite if the problem is primary testicular failure - keep on the HCG 500iu ED until atrophy occurs, then reduce that and continue with the clomid or nolvadex.

 

[jdawg50]

So what do I do? I am planning on sticking to the clomid for another 3 weeks. How does that sound? Which one do I do I have three suggestions here??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[occam]

He said that his nuts were better than they were, that would lead me to believe that his problem is not primary hypogonadism.

Staying on HCG can keep his HPTA inhibited, not to mention the possibility of leydig cell insensitivity, so if he feels like his natural test is coming back it would seem to me the time to cut it out.

I agree with keeping the nolva in, but clomid will give him his testicular fullness back if his natural test production is back on line.

 

[jdawg50]

OK I'm done with the HCG... Clomid only ... what about the nov

 

[occam]

I use Clomid and Nolva together, though some will say it's not necessary. I've found that my post cycle acne gets worse with clomid alone but do not know why that might be.

I'd do the following myself, but I can only encourage you to search for more information that you can apply to your situation.

I'm one of the few guys (that I know at least) who enjoy using clomid. I've actually had some amazing, emotionally driven workouts while in PCT. But then again, some guys hate it, becoming overly emotional etc.

I start out at 300 mgs for two days then 100mgs a day for a week, then 75 for a week, then 50, then 25, then off.

For Nolva I'd just use 10 mgs ED.

Keep us posted.

 

[Xander_Cage]

He said that his nuts were better than they were, that would lead me to believe that his problem is not primary hypogonadism.

Staying on HCG can keep his HPTA inhibited, not to mention the possibility of leydig cell insensitivity, so if he feels like his natural test is coming back it would seem to me the time to cut it out.

I agree with keeping the nolva in, but clomid will give him his testicular fullness back if his natural test production is back on line.

Can't/Won't agree. HCG should be used untill testicle fullness is within 95% of precycle size/function - then begin to get the HPTA back in order. LH/FSH production can skyrocket within 7 days under the right circumstances, but testicular atrophy can take weeks to return to normal. That being the case, testicular size and function should be restored by artifical means before LH secretion should be of concern, as it takes longer to get back in order.

Leydig cell insensitivity should be of little concern at 500iu EOD. Maybe at 2,500 IU that might be of concern, but not 500iu.

Nuts being "Better" is not enough, but then again, I think he should have been using HCG EOD throughout the cycle to prevent these types of worries and debates in the future.

As far as HCG converting to estrogen - I'd love to know how that one works, lol.

 

[Joe West]

i know a national level competitor that uses hcg only post cycle. got the idea from one of his hormone docs. says it gets him running in no time and no clomid dpression. saw a study on another board about docs giving a bber hcg shots for 3 months to cure his steriod induced hypogonadism, the effects were permanent. so, imo, if one was to take light doses of hcg throughot a cycle, then kick itup at the end, theres no need for clomid.

 

[esco]

in my opinion i tend to agree with XC ... only because i use 1000ius/ed for 10 days of hcg for pct.

 

[Frankenstud]

I did a gram of cyp, 600mgs of EQ, for 16 weeks.

16 weeks at that doseage sounds pretty nasty to HTPA. Just gonna take a few months thats all.

 

[Southernjuice]

I agree to disagree....use hcg during your cycle and if you're using long esters then use it 2 weeks after last inject as well but....while doing pct do'nt use something that is gonna continue to supress and HCG WILL.

 

[esco]

everybody has their own opinion and it is even stated that there is no for sure way of using hcg and pct and all that ... take a look at phreezers sticky at the top of this forum. maybe that will help you make a decision too. good luck.

 

[graybass]

I'll just continue what everyone else seems to be saying.
IMHO, DO NOT USE HCG DURING PCT!!! For Christ sakes
Here is the best method I ever used. I'll say 12 weeks as an example.

weeks 1-12 whatever your cycle is.
8-12 20mg nolvadex. (or as needed)
10-12 1000iu HCG ED (or a little less)
14-16 Clomid Therapy (I used 100mg ED first week, 50mg ED second)

This is not a lot of Pct, and I had great results. (12 weeks of over 2000 total mg)
After 2 months I still felt great, kept all gains, and had big wood!!!

Maybe it's just me, but I could'nt be happier.

Just that humble Old Graybass

 

[brianguta2000]

I'll just continue what everyone else seems to be saying.
IMHO, DO NOT USE HCG DURING PCT!!! For Christ sakes
Here is the best method I ever used. I'll say 12 weeks as an example.

weeks 1-12 whatever your cycle is.
8-12 20mg nolvadex. (or as needed)
10-12 1000iu HCG ED (or a little less)
14-16 Clomid Therapy (I used 100mg ED first week, 50mg ED second)

This is not a lot of Pct, and I had great results. (12 weeks of over 2000 total mg)
After 2 months I still felt great, kept all gains, and had big wood!!!

Maybe it's just me, but I could'nt be happier.

Just that humble Old Graybass

have i been misinformed but you have to take a shitload of clomid for it to be effective, confused as to why people dont stick to nolva which is much more effective at a lower dose

 

[brianguta2000]

have i been misinformed but you have to take a shitload of clomid for it to be effective, confused as to why people dont stick to nolva which is much more effective at a lower dose[/QUOT
by the by 3000 ius right after your last jab, every five days 1500 ius totaling about four shots of hcg to get your nuts back in working order carry on taking nolva atleast two weeks

 

[jdawg50]

Thanks guys

 

[vikings]

what would ultimately help, go get a lab test so you can see what is lacking compared to what is functioning , that is truly the only way for YOU to get peace of mine, post the results and we can help better. Too much HCG is negative

peace

 

[Neodavid]

Xander and graybass gave the clearest advice, but I do want to say clomid should be continued for one more week than GB recomended.

The reason is safety, in that MOST guys will be fine after 3 weeks of clomid, but I ran across a scientific study on juicers, and some of them lost LH after pct because they were only on clomid for 21 days. When they upped it to 4 full weeks, the LH levels were maintained.

It may be GB's advice works perfectly at the doses he recomends, because the study I read was 50mg clomid ED.

I'll just continue what everyone else seems to be saying.
IMHO, DO NOT USE HCG DURING PCT!!! For Christ sakes
Here is the best method I ever used. I'll say 12 weeks as an example.

weeks 1-12 whatever your cycle is.
8-12 20mg nolvadex. (or as needed)
10-12 1000iu HCG ED (or a little less)
14-16 Clomid Therapy (I used 100mg ED first week, 50mg ED second)

This is not a lot of Pct, and I had great results. (12 weeks of over 2000 total mg)
After 2 months I still felt great, kept all gains, and had big wood!!!

Maybe it's just me, but I could'nt be happier.

Just that humble Old Graybass