36 yo, 24% BF, Cutting

[Rbvasques]

Update:
Weight in lb, muscle mass in lb, body fat in%, in the last 2 months in the image.

 

[kain]

Here is my issue with these percentages. Side note, I have no problem being proven wrong, they obviously work for bodybuilders. My goal is health longevity, rather than looking massive and/or cut... A good balance I guess.

Based on what I researched, the brain needs 20% of calories for optimal health. That information isn't hard to find. At 16g of fat in 3000 calories, you're only at 1/4 of the 66g needed. Now even if you were to base the 20% off your maintenance calories and we'll assume 2000 calories, then you'd need 44g of fat. Your off days you're barely at half (24g).

My question is that really sustainable? It seems extremely low and I see that low fat everywhere in bodybuilders. Something isn't right.

I think you missed the point i made that the fat I’m tracking is added fat. There is obviously trace fats in the food I’m eating so in reality the total fat is higher.

 

[Dunkirk]

I did notice that part, wasn't 100% clear on the amount you showed. Thanks for the update. What is your total fat then? In that case you're over 3000 calories on training days.

I'm very number oriented, sometimes too much. It's just curious for me.

 

[petit_rafalet]

Now to the question:
I have seen people using EQ, Primo and others during cutting, what is your guys experience and recommendations as far as steroids to avoid muscle loss?

To your question: don’t worry too much about muscle loss if you are already with 300mg testosterone, you don’t need any other anabolic. In my opinion testo is enough. If you want to accelerate the process maybe add a small dose of clen (also known as a fat loss with anticatabilic properties).

I’ve cut a couple of times from 20% bf to <10% only using testo, clen and t3. Last weeks of cycle when energy is low because of the diet I add some oxa or winni, but in bikini wellness dosages, just to keep working out heavy.

 

[kain]

I did notice that part, wasn't 100% clear on the amount you showed. Thanks for the update. What is your total fat then? In that case you're over 3000 calories on training days.

I'm very number oriented, sometimes too much. It's just curious for me.

Total fat, including trace, varies depending on the protein source each day. But as an example, the last training day was 3470 cals, 410 c, 291 p, 68 f, including all trace macros.

 

[The Answ3r]

You’re killing it, man - seriously impressive progress!

About your question - don’t stress too much about muscle loss, you won’t lose much. Whether to use EQ or Primo is really a personal choice, but I personally prefer EQ.

Now, when it comes to cutting, I’ll be honest - I’m not a fan of slow, gradual fat loss. I’d much rather go all in with RFL by Lyle McDonald, and based on your current stats, you fit perfectly into Category 2.

Since you’re already using Tirz, the diet will be even easier, and muscle loss will be minimal (speaking from personal experience). In my opinion, 6-8 weeks of RFL is way more efficient than slowly chipping away at calories for 12 weeks. From what I’ve seen, it works almost twice as fast as a standard 200-500 calorie deficit.

 

[Rbvasques]

You’re killing it, man - seriously impressive progress!

About your question - don’t stress too much about muscle loss, you won’t lose much. Whether to use EQ or Primo is really a personal choice, but I personally prefer EQ.

Now, when it comes to cutting, I’ll be honest - I’m not a fan of slow, gradual fat loss. I’d much rather go all in with RFL by Lyle McDonald, and based on your current stats, you fit perfectly into Category 2.

Since you’re already using Tirz, the diet will be even easier, and muscle loss will be minimal (speaking from personal experience). In my opinion, 6-8 weeks of RFL is way more efficient than slowly chipping away at calories for 12 weeks. From what I’ve seen, it works almost twice as fast as a standard 200-500 calorie deficit.

Thanks for the motivational words mate!

 

[Rbvasques]

update on the cutting.
15lb less
6.8% body fat reduction
1lb of muscle loss

 

[explodingHeart]

You’re killing it, man - seriously impressive progress!

About your question - don’t stress too much about muscle loss, you won’t lose much. Whether to use EQ or Primo is really a personal choice, but I personally prefer EQ.

Now, when it comes to cutting, I’ll be honest - I’m not a fan of slow, gradual fat loss. I’d much rather go all in with RFL by Lyle McDonald, and based on your current stats, you fit perfectly into Category 2.

Since you’re already using Tirz, the diet will be even easier, and muscle loss will be minimal (speaking from personal experience). In my opinion, 6-8 weeks of RFL is way more efficient than slowly chipping away at calories for 12 weeks. From what I’ve seen, it works almost twice as fast as a standard 200-500 calorie deficit.

Lyle is the goat.
Unless you're getting into contest shape, one can easily RFL into single digits with ease using GLPs.

 

[Rbvasques]

after the end of my 16 weeks cutting (dexa scan above), my metabolism was trashed, feeling cold everywhere, food was not digesting, etc.

I decided to do a 10 week refeed/recomp/lean bulk phase.
Week 1 -
Test 300, 4IU GH, slowly upping the calories

Week 2-4
More calories
Test 400 Npp 250 Primo 200, 6IU GH
5IU Insulin Pre and Post

Week 5- 10
Even more calories
Test 600 Npp 300 Primo 200, 8IU GH
20mg Oxan pre workout
5IU Insulin Pre and Post
10IU Base insulin morning

Im right now in my week 6, so 4 more weeks to go, i did a blood exam (sadly through labcorp, so still waiting results) and a Dexa scan
Picture attached.

Total Weight: +10.2lb
SMM: +7.0lb
Bodyfat: -1.7%

Dry Lean mass: +3.2lb
Body Fat Mass: -1.8lb

 

[SSJ2Pooh]

after the end of my 16 weeks cutting (dexa scan above), my metabolism was trashed, feeling cold everywhere, food was not digesting, etc.

I decided to do a 10 week refeed/recomp/lean bulk phase.
Week 1 -
Test 300, 4IU GH, slowly upping the calories

Week 2-4
More calories
Test 400 Npp 250 Primo 200, 6IU GH
5IU Insulin Pre and Post

Week 5- 10
Even more calories
Test 600 Npp 300 Primo 200, 8IU GH
20mg Oxan pre workout
5IU Insulin Pre and Post
10IU Base insulin morning

Im right now in my week 6, so 4 more weeks to go, i did a blood exam (sadly through labcorp, so still waiting results) and a Dexa scan
Picture attached.

Total Weight: +10.2lb
SMM: +7.0lb
Bodyfat: -1.7%

Dry Lean mass: +3.2lb
Body Fat Mass: -1.8lb

Honestly my man, I'd wouldn't even think of "recomp", "lean buiking" until you're 10% BF at least.

 

[Eddie.]

after the end of my 16 weeks cutting (dexa scan above), my metabolism was trashed, feeling cold everywhere, food was not digesting, etc.

I decided to do a 10 week refeed/recomp/lean bulk phase.
Week 1 -
Test 300, 4IU GH, slowly upping the calories

Week 2-4
More calories
Test 400 Npp 250 Primo 200, 6IU GH
5IU Insulin Pre and Post

Week 5- 10
Even more calories
Test 600 Npp 300 Primo 200, 8IU GH
20mg Oxan pre workout
5IU Insulin Pre and Post
10IU Base insulin morning

Im right now in my week 6, so 4 more weeks to go, i did a blood exam (sadly through labcorp, so still waiting results) and a Dexa scan
Picture attached.

Total Weight: +10.2lb
SMM: +7.0lb
Bodyfat: -1.7%

Dry Lean mass: +3.2lb
Body Fat Mass: -1.8lb

Nice! Good call on the reverse diet. Built your metabolism again, hold it for a while and then go back to deficit (if that's what you want).

 

[malfeasance]

Hitting around 180g protein a day and 2000 calories, those are the only to items I’m tracking, fat is low and carbs are very low.

You have obviously been making great progress. You are concerned about losing muscle.

I have three observations. First, how do you know fat v. muscle, gained this lost that? What method are you using to measure these supposed changes in your physique? It may not be reliable, but I cannot discuss it without knowing what it is. EDIT, never mind, I see it is Dexa scan.

Second, up the protein.

There is a three legged stool that supports your body's muscle mass in a deficit. Leg (1) Hormone signaling, which you have taken care of by injecting testosterone, Leg (2) intense weight training, which I am going to assume you are doing and not avoiding the uncomfortable lifts, and Leg (3) protein.

It is this third leg that is a little thin and may cause your stool to collapse.

Get that protein up.

How high? Up. As high as you can stand it. I would push you to 250 - 300 grams daily.

But be careful not to increase fats as you increase protein. You do not need much in the way of dietary fats since you are not relying on them to have your body make its own testosterone.

Third, track the other two items, fats and carbs. Fats are a huge cut killer. You can sabotage your progress without realizing it if you are not tracking this macro. Carbs - well, here is where the magic happens. You keep protein high, you keep fats low, and you adjust the carbs where you need them to be for your current goals, such as discussing a refeed, above. You do that with carbs, not fats, and do not ever lower your protein.

Carbs can be manipulated in all sort of ways, carb cycling, carb depletion followed by filling out on carbs, and so on. The possibilities are endless, but you cannot manipulate, especially in small amounts, what you do not track.

Those are my three observations. Feel free to ignore them as you are obviously making great progress, but I believe that by heeding those observations you can continue to make good progress without being concerned about muscle loss.

 

[Rbvasques]

You have obviously been making great progress. You are concerned about losing muscle.

I have three observations. First, how do you know fat v. muscle, gained this lost that? What method are you using to measure these supposed changes in your physique? It may not be reliable, but I cannot discuss it without knowing what it is. EDIT, never mind, I see it is Dexa scan.

Second, up the protein.

There is a three legged stool that supports your body's muscle mass in a deficit. Leg (1) Hormone signaling, which you have taken care of by injecting testosterone, Leg (2) intense weight training, which I am going to assume you are doing and not avoiding the uncomfortable lifts, and Leg (3) protein.

It is this third leg that is a little thin and may cause your stool to collapse.

Get that protein up.

How high? Up. As high as you can stand it. I would push you to 250 - 300 grams daily.

But be careful not to increase fats as you increase protein. You do not need much in the way of dietary fats since you are not relying on them to have your body make its own testosterone.

Third, track the other two items, fats and carbs. Fats are a huge cut killer. You can sabotage your progress without realizing it if you are not tracking this macro. Carbs - well, here is where the magic happens. You keep protein high, you keep fats low, and you adjust the carbs where you need them to be for your current goals, such as discussing a refeed, above. You do that with carbs, not fats, and do not ever lower your protein.

Carbs can be manipulated in all sort of ways, carb cycling, carb depletion followed by filling out on carbs, and so on. The possibilities are endless, but you cannot manipulate, especially in small amounts, what you do not track.

Those are my three observations. Feel free to ignore them as you are obviously making great progress, but I believe that by heeding those observations you can continue to make good progress without being concerned about muscle loss.

Fat intake i meticulously count it, i try to keep between 40 to 60g/day
Protein intake is above 200g daily for sure, rare days i hit 300, mostly near 250g.
Carbs, very similar to protein currently, around 300g to 400g
Im hitting the 3k to 3.5k cal a day, Im really trying to be around 4k, but its been VERY HARD to eat more clean food.

Im pretty sure i could have made more muscle, but im happy with the outcome, it does feel more like a recomp outcome rather than a lean bulk, since i endup losing some overall fat mass.

I plan do get back to cutting later on the year, when metabolism is back to normal, and blood exams go back to stable levels.

Ill keep updating this thread, until i hit my goal, 220lb 12% bf gym bro.

 

[Rbvasques]

Bulking is not going, Im finding impossible to eat enough clean calories to gain weight, and for health reasons, i dont want to reduce my daily fasted cardio.

So it feels like im in a recomp instead.
New dexa scan will be done mid july, last one as i said, it showed that i had 15% body fat.
The abs are starting to exist, some loose skin due to coming down from 41% bodyfat.

 

[malfeasance]

I'd rather have loose skin and be lean than have fat taking up the loose skin.

 

[BabaJagga]

I'd rather have loose skin and be lean than have fat taking up the loose skin.

agree...

 

[BabaJagga]

Bulking is not going, Im finding impossible to eat enough clean calories to gain weight, and for health reasons, i dont want to reduce my daily fasted cardio.

So it feels like im in a recomp instead.
New dexa scan will be done mid july, last one as i said, it showed that i had 15% body fat.
The abs are starting to exist, some loose skin due to coming down from 41% bodyfat.

mate, im in very simillar situation, maybe little bit leaner, im not sure.

go for lower bf% for sure. it sucks but i think it will be worth it. i aim for 10% by end of august. down 17kg in 10 weeks.

my skin looks worse than yours, with fat still there, its terrible.

 

[Rbvasques]

mate, im in very simillar situation, maybe little bit leaner, im not sure.

go for lower bf% for sure. it sucks but i think it will be worth it. i aim for 10% by end of august. down 17kg in 10 weeks.

my skin looks worse than yours, with fat still there, its terrible.

You have a post with your progress?
Would like to follow

 

[BabaJagga]

You have a post with your progress?
Would like to follow

not updated in long time and no photos either cause im not (yet) comfortable with it...

you are more tanned than me, im super white naturally so i look worse than you.