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Anabolic Steroids

3rd Cycle Critique

Achilles_speed

Achilles_speed

New Member
Hey what ups guys! I joined Meso because I saw it would be a great place to share ideas, soak in some knowledge, and be apart of a community that loves to lift. I am going to be starting my 3rd cycle and thought I post it for you guys to review. Here are my basic stats:

Age: 31
Height: 5'8
Weight: 184 lbs
BF: 12 - 13%
Training: 8 Years

I am coming off a shoulder injury so I definitely lost some strength and size but I have been at the gym hard for the last 8 months. So I am feeling good and ready to start my 3rd cycle.

Previous cycles:
12 Weeks Test E @ 500mg/Week
PCT Nolva 40/40/20/20/10

14 Weeks Test E @ 500mg/Week
12 Weeks Deca @ 300mg/Week
PCT Clomid 50/50/25/25
Nolva 40/40/20/20/10

I never experienced any bad sides (other than a little acne) I had AI's on hand for second cycle but I did not use as I did not experience high E sides.

My plan for third cycle is going to be
1-12 Weeks Test E @ 500mg (250mg twice a week)
1-10 Weeks Deca @ 300mg (150mg twice a week)
1-4 Weeks Dbol @ 30 - 40mg (taper up each week)

Cycle Support
HCG 1-14 Weeks @500ius (250ius twice per week)
Tudca 1-5 Weeks @ 250mg ED
Aromasin 1-14 Weeks @ 12.5mg EOD

PCT
Nolva 1-6 Weeks 20/20/20/20/10/10
Aromasin 25mg 1-4 weeks (Taper down)

I would like to get some opinions and I am open to suggestions and advice. Unfortunately at the time of my first two cycles I did not get blood work as I was uneducated. Big mistake I know but I can only move forward from here. I plan on getting pre and post blood work on this cycle.

In regards to PCT I have been doing a lot of reading into this and have read some great studies into the Nolva and Aromasin combo. I know its not what is commonly recommended but from the studies I have seen. It seems like a great route for promoting a good recovery and I am interested in trying it out. I would be interested in hearing what people think about this or if any have tried this PCT before.

I know Deca seems a little short but only want to run for 10 weeks as my last cycle was almost 2 years ago. Want to include Deca in cycle as I am hoping to strengthen joints. Shoulder feels great but I believe Deca could do some good. Also Deca gave me amazing gainz.

Things to consider this will be my first time using Dbol, HCG, and Aromasin. I am going to be using the AI this time because I am adding the HCG and Dbol and want to keep E levels in check.

I am by no means an expert but I have done a solid amount of research this time around. My goals in this cycle would be to gain as much lean muscle mass as possible. I would appreciate any feedback.
 
the only critique is that this does look short for both long ester test and deca.

If you insist on the shorter duration, consider a prop/npp kickstart so get something more meaningful from the cycle.

Otherwise, dosages look good. Your ancillaries are good. Plan looks solid. Just be sure that shoulders good to go so you’re not wasting time on drugs still rehabbing.

As far as PCT; nothing crazy about that. You’re on hcg throughout; nolva and maintaining estrogen protection until your test drops a bit is perfect and aromasin is the drug to do it with since your E won’t rebound.
 
Mac11wildcat said:
the only critique is that this does look short for both long ester test and deca.

If you insist on the shorter duration, consider a prop/npp kickstart so get something more meaningful from the cycle.

Otherwise, dosages look good. Your ancillaries are good. Plan looks solid. Just be sure that shoulders good to go so you’re not wasting time on drugs still rehabbing.

As far as PCT; nothing crazy about that. You’re on hcg throughout; nolva and maintaining estrogen protection until your test drops a bit is perfect and aromasin is the drug to do it with since your E won’t rebound.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the Feedback Mac. Shoulder feels g2g I would not want to set myself back again. I already have everything on hand except HCG so I am going to stick with the longer esters. I could order another bottle of test and pick up some more Deca when I pick up HCG. Then Bump Test to 16 Weeks and Deca to 14. I was a little worried about recovery on a longer cycle. Do you think my current PCT should still be G2G even with longer cycle?
 
Test_Subject said:
Since you plan on doing PCT, and you're only planning on taking the deca for ten weeks, I'd run NPP instead.

It's superior in every way for your plan: easier to recover from, kicks in faster... win-win.
Click to expand...

Yeah I have Test and Deca on hand so I will probably just order more and push for a longer cycle. Another option would be to order NPP and save Deca for another Cycle. What do you think about Test for 16 Weeks Deca for 14?
 
Achilles_speed said:
Yeah I have Test and Deca on hand so I will probably just order more and push for a longer cycle. Another option would be to order NPP and save Deca for another Cycle. What do you think about Test for 16 Weeks Deca for 14?
Click to expand...

Save the Deca. Anyone that cycles should run NPP over Deca. The recovery is easier. Being shutdown for 14-16 weeks is harder than 10 weeks on NPP.
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone I appreciate the help! I am thinking I am going to pick up some NPP and run it for 10 - 12 weeks. My question is since I already have Test E would it be a problem to run it with NPP? If so I imagine the pinning would be something like this.

M - 250mg Test E and 100mg NPP
W - 100mg NPP
F - 250mg Test E and 100mg NPP

Another question would be since I am running Test E when should I drop NPP? I know I will start my PCT 14 days after dropping the Test but since NPP is a short ester how long should I run before starting PCT.

I could always pick up Test Prop and keep thing simple. Would be interested to hear what you guys think.
 
Test e and NPP are fine to run at the same time. That injection schedule would work.

I would stop both at the same time and wait 2 weeks for PCT. There's no need to complicate things trying to get the exact right clearance time for NPP vs test. The important thing is to have test in your system until just before PCT.
 
Achilles_speed said:
Thanks for the feedback everyone I appreciate the help! I am thinking I am going to pick up some NPP and run it for 10 - 12 weeks. My question is since I already have Test E would it be a problem to run it with NPP? If so I imagine the pinning would be something like this.

M - 250mg Test E and 100mg NPP
W - 100mg NPP
F - 250mg Test E and 100mg NPP

Another question would be since I am running Test E when should I drop NPP? I know I will start my PCT 14 days after dropping the Test but since NPP is a short ester how long should I run before starting PCT.

I could always pick up Test Prop and keep thing simple. Would be interested to hear what you guys think.
Click to expand...
Why are you starting your PCT 14 days after dropping your test? That's too soon. Also, I would run the NPP for 10 weeks. Test for 12 weeks.

No need to pin the 100mg NPP on Wednesday. Use a Mon / Thurs pinning schedule. 150mg Monday and Thursday for NPP and 250mg Monday and Thursday for Test E.

mands
 
mands said:
Why are you starting your PCT 14 days after dropping your test? That's too soon. Also, I would run the NPP for 10 weeks. Test for 12 weeks.

No need to pin the 100mg NPP on Wednesday. Use a Mon / Thurs pinning schedule. 150mg Monday and Thursday for NPP and 250mg Monday and Thursday for Test E.

mands
Click to expand...

I was planning on pinning NPP EOD to try and maintain stable blood levels. I have seen people recommending going ED, EOD, and E3D. I suppose it should not make to much of a difference but I just tend to steer on the side of caution. Would be curious to hear you thoughts on it.

I was recommended PCT two weeks after Test E, this is what I have always seen. However I have read the half-life of Test E is about 4-5 days so it can take about 20-25 days to clear the system. So ideally one should start PCT as soon as test clears system which is closer to 3 weeks in this case.

In all honestly I am still learning. If you can drop some knowledge or link a study on why I should push my PCT back longer I am all ears. I posted my cycle here to get feedback I am glad to see the responses so far.
 
Achilles_speed said:
I was planning on pinning NPP EOD to try and maintain stable blood levels. I have seen people recommending going ED, EOD, and E3D. I suppose it should not make to much of a difference but I just tend to steer on the side of caution. Would be curious to hear you thoughts on it.

I was recommended PCT two weeks after Test E, this is what I have always seen. However I have read the half-life of Test E is about 4-5 days so it can take about 20-25 days to clear the system. So ideally one should start PCT as soon as test clears system which is closer to 3 weeks in this case.

In all honestly I am still learning. If you can drop some knowledge or link a study on why I should push my PCT back longer I am all ears. I posted my cycle here to get feedback I am glad to see the responses so far.
Click to expand...
Well you have really answered all your questions here.

You will be happy with the pinning scheduled I laid out for you. No need for an extra day to pin the 100mg NPP.

You are correct I would wait at least 3 weeks to start PCT after your last shot of Test E and 5 weeks after your last shot of NPP.

I really don't see a need to taper up your dbol. If you want to bump it up after running it because you think you need to do so. Go for it.

mands
 
Thanks Mands.
I will run Test 12 weeks and NPP 10 Weeks. Then start PCT at week 15.
That is exactly my plan with Dbol "Taper up" was probably not the best phrase. I just meant I will start at 30mg and bump up if needed.
I appreciate everyone's input! excited to start this cycle!
 
Achilles_speed said:
Hey what ups guys! I joined Meso because I saw it would be a great place to share ideas, soak in some knowledge, and be apart of a community that loves to lift. I am going to be starting my 3rd cycle and thought I post it for you guys to review. Here are my basic stats:

Age: 31
Height: 5'8
Weight: 184 lbs
BF: 12 - 13%
Training: 8 Years

I am coming off a shoulder injury so I definitely lost some strength and size but I have been at the gym hard for the last 8 months. So I am feeling good and ready to start my 3rd cycle.

Previous cycles:
12 Weeks Test E @ 500mg/Week
PCT Nolva 40/40/20/20/10

14 Weeks Test E @ 500mg/Week
12 Weeks Deca @ 300mg/Week
PCT Clomid 50/50/25/25
Nolva 40/40/20/20/10

I never experienced any bad sides (other than a little acne) I had AI's on hand for second cycle but I did not use as I did not experience high E sides.

My plan for third cycle is going to be
1-12 Weeks Test E @ 500mg (250mg twice a week)
1-10 Weeks Deca @ 300mg (150mg twice a week)
1-4 Weeks Dbol @ 30 - 40mg (taper up each week)

Cycle Support
HCG 1-14 Weeks @500ius (250ius twice per week)
Tudca 1-5 Weeks @ 250mg ED
Aromasin 1-14 Weeks @ 12.5mg EOD

PCT
Nolva 1-6 Weeks 20/20/20/20/10/10
Aromasin 25mg 1-4 weeks (Taper down)

I would like to get some opinions and I am open to suggestions and advice. Unfortunately at the time of my first two cycles I did not get blood work as I was uneducated. Big mistake I know but I can only move forward from here. I plan on getting pre and post blood work on this cycle.

In regards to PCT I have been doing a lot of reading into this and have read some great studies into the Nolva and Aromasin combo. I know its not what is commonly recommended but from the studies I have seen. It seems like a great route for promoting a good recovery and I am interested in trying it out. I would be interested in hearing what people think about this or if any have tried this PCT before.

I know Deca seems a little short but only want to run for 10 weeks as my last cycle was almost 2 years ago. Want to include Deca in cycle as I am hoping to strengthen joints. Shoulder feels great but I believe Deca could do some good. Also Deca gave me amazing gainz.

Things to consider this will be my first time using Dbol, HCG, and Aromasin. I am going to be using the AI this time because I am adding the HCG and Dbol and want to keep E levels in check.

I am by no means an expert but I have done a solid amount of research this time around. My goals in this cycle would be to gain as much lean muscle mass as possible. I would appreciate any feedback.
Click to expand...
500 IU HCG may be too much. With HCG and 500 mg Test you'll really need an AI.

Leave Dbol for the last 4-6 weeks of the cycle to break plateau.

Keep on injecting HCG for 4 weeks after the last pin, to help recover as Deca clears.
 
I'm not an expert. I'm only copy pasting some of an article I read to try and contribute to the conversation to get a better understanding myself. So here goes...
"It is important that low-dose hCG is started before testicular sensitivity is reduced, which appears to rapidly manifest within the first 2-3 weeks of steroid use. Also, it’s important to discontinue the hCG before you start PCT so your leydig cells are given a chance to re-sensitize to your body’s own LH production. A more convenient alternative to the above recommendation would be a twice a week shot of 200iu hCG, or possibly a once a week shot of 500iu. However, it is most desirable to adhere to a lower more frequent dose of hCG to mimic the body’s natural LH release and minimize estrogen conversion. Overview
For preservation of testicular sensitivity, use 100iu hCG ED starting 7 days after your first AAS dose. At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot. Or, if you are ending the cycle with orals, you would drop the hCG about 10 days before your last oral dose. This will allow for a sudden and even clearance in hormone levels, while initiating LH and FSH production from the pituitary, to begin stimulating your testes to produce testosterone. Remember, recovery doesn’t begin until you are off hCG since your body will not release its own LH until the hCG has cleared the system."
 
Hello Everyone!
I just wanted to give a quick update and seek a little more advice. So I held off on my third cycle and just kept consistent with my training. I am now ready to start but I have changed a few things up and I believe for the better. Considering I have been off gear for close to three years now I am going to make this cycle very simple. Let me know what you guys think!

My plan for my third cycle is going to be
1-14 Weeks
Test E @ 500mg (250mg twice a week)

10 - 14 Weeks
Dbol @ 30 - 40mg (Start at 30MG and see how I feel)

Cycle Support
Weeks 1-16
HCG @500ius (250ius twice per week)

Weeks 10 - 14
Tudca @ 250mg ED

Week 1 - 16
aromasin @ 12.5mg EOD (May adjust based off week 8 blood work)

PCT - 21 days after last Test E Shot
Week 17 - 23
Nolva /10/10

Week 17 - 21
Aromasin 25mg ED

Blood work:
PreBlood work
Mid cycle blood work @ Week 8
Post PCT blood work - 2 weeks after PCT (Not sure how long to wait after PCT for final blood work)

Planning on ordering bloods from Anabolic Steroid Testing | Private MD Labs

I am seeking advice on what test I should request for blood work. If you have another site you recommend for online bloods I am all ears.

My only concern is I will not know how the Dbol will effect my Estrogen levels as I will have my bloods in week 8. Because of this I am considering of either putting it at the beginning of the cycle or dropping it completely and just running Test.

Not sure if I missed anything. My stats haven’t changed much sinced the first post.

Once again I appreciate the help and I am looking forward to hearing what you guys think! Let me know!
 
Achilles_speed said:
Hello Everyone!
I just wanted to give a quick update and seek a little more advice. So I held off on my third cycle and just kept consistent with my training. I am now ready to start but I have changed a few things up and I believe for the better. Considering I have been off gear for close to three years now I am going to make this cycle very simple. Let me know what you guys think!

My plan for my third cycle is going to be
1-14 Weeks
Test E @ 500mg (250mg twice a week)

10 - 14 Weeks
Dbol @ 30 - 40mg (Start at 30MG and see how I feel)

Cycle Support
Weeks 1-16
HCG @500ius (250ius twice per week)

Weeks 10 - 14
Tudca @ 250mg ED

Week 1 - 16
aromasin @ 12.5mg EOD (May adjust based off week 8 blood work)

PCT - 21 days after last Test E Shot
Week 17 - 23
Nolva /10/10

Week 17 - 21
Aromasin 25mg ED

Blood work:
PreBlood work
Mid cycle blood work @ Week 8
Post PCT blood work - 2 weeks after PCT (Not sure how long to wait after PCT for final blood work)

Planning on ordering bloods from Anabolic Steroid Testing | Private MD Labs

I am seeking advice on what test I should request for blood work. If you have another site you recommend for online bloods I am all ears.

My only concern is I will not know how the Dbol will effect my Estrogen levels as I will have my bloods in week 8. Because of this I am considering of either putting it at the beginning of the cycle or dropping it completely and just running Test.

Not sure if I missed anything. My stats haven’t changed much sinced the first post.

Once again I appreciate the help and I am looking forward to hearing what you guys think! Let me know!
Click to expand...
I would start the Dbol at beginning of cycle for 3 weeks. Then last 4 weeks I would add 50mg daily winstrol. Good idea to look at adjusting your Aromasin after blood work. Sometimes you don’t need aromasin EOD on 500mg test/wk. Too much AI can limit the the effects of your compounds. But everyone responds differently and it takes time and experience to know how your body responds.
 
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