---5X5--- questions

[kenneth]

---5X5---
Monday: Squats, Benching, Rows
Weds: Squats, Military Presses, Deadlifts, Chins
Friday: Squats, Benching, Rows

i pasted that from the johnsmith forum. is he listing the most important exercises, or the only exercises involved? I'm trying to get everything figured out so i can put this workout into effect combined with his 8 week squatting program. i understand the squatting program so i'm not going to say anything on that exercise, but is the rest as simple as :

Monday: benching-5x5, rows, 5x5
Wed: military presses-5x5, deadz, 5x5, chins, 5x5
Fri: benching, 5x5, rows, 5x5

is that the end of the story?

thanks for any feedback, i'm amped up bigtime to get into this so any and all help is greatly appreciated

 

[Bob Smith]

I changed a thing or two for Wednesdays workout, but otherwise I do it exactly as written. Very basic and only using compound movements. So far its going great!

 

[kenneth]

I changed a thing or two for Wednesdays workout, but otherwise I do it exactly as written. Very basic and only using compound movements. So far its going great!

Thanks Bob, glad to hear all is going well with it. How long have you been doing this routine? I have no beef with the setup so i'll do it exactly as is. Thanks again!

 

[Bob Smith]

Thanks Bob, glad to hear all is going well with it. How long have you been doing this routine? I have no beef with the setup so i'll do it exactly as is. Thanks again!

Ive been using it for roughly 6 weeks now.

 

[AnimalMass]

Yeah Kenneth, that's all there is and all there needs to be.

Here's the small changes I would make to the program...

---5X5---
Monday: Olympic Squats, Flat Bench Press, JS Rows, (low volume triceps, abs)
Weds: Olympic Squats, Standing Military Presses, Deadlifts, Chins (Biceps, abs)
Friday: Olympic Squats, Incline Bench Press, JS Rows (low volume triceps, abs)

 

[AnimalMass]

Now, for notes on that...

1) The additional tricep and bicep work should be LOW volume. i.e. - pick one exercise for the triceps (maybe two at most for biceps) and do like 2 sets of heavy weight for about 12 reps each. This is more for your own peace of mind rather than the fact that you actually need the additional work.

2) What this leaves you with is a program that most certainly isn't easy. You need to really put effort into the 3-4 exercises per day that you are doing.

You can cycle the other lifts down some, in the same way the squats do - i.e. - you can do 3x3 or try for 1 rep maxes on the bench, military press and deadlift as time progresses. But at your level of strength, and since you've never trained this way before then you need to do 6 weeks at the very least of 5x5 for all exercises. Then you can start dropping the reps.

Matt

 

[kenneth]

Yeah Kenneth, that's all there is and all there needs to be.

Here's the small changes I would make to the program...

---5X5---
Monday: Olympic Squats, Flat Bench Press, JS Rows, (low volume triceps, abs)
Weds: Olympic Squats, Standing Military Presses, Deadlifts, Chins (Biceps, abs)
Friday: Olympic Squats, Incline Bench Press, JS Rows (low volume triceps, abs)

thanks AM, sounds good, I'll probably add in a few sets of skullz on monday and friday or maybe skullz monday and something else friday, and a few sets of straight bar curls on wed in that case

 

[kenneth]

Now, for notes on that...

1) The additional tricep and bicep work should be LOW volume. i.e. - pick one exercise for the triceps (maybe two at most for biceps) and do like 2 sets of heavy weight for about 12 reps each. This is more for your own peace of mind rather than the fact that you actually need the additional work.

2) What this leaves you with is a program that most certainly isn't easy. You need to really put effort into the 3-4 exercises per day that you are doing.

You can cycle the other lifts down some, in the same way the squats do - i.e. - you can do 3x3 or try for 1 rep maxes on the bench, military press and deadlift as time progresses. But at your level of strength, and since you've never trained this way before then you need to do 6 weeks at the very least of 5x5 for all exercises. Then you can start dropping the reps.

Matt

thanks for this additional information! i'll have no problems putting myself to work, i'll be working my ass off on these days, and i definately plan to just do 5x5's for a while like you said, probably longer than that even, I've never before done a training program anything like this one and I'm amped up big time to get into this, i think the 5x5's will do me tons of justice, maybe towards the end i'll attempt some 1rm towards the end. Thanks!

 

[AnimalMass]

Also, another note...I've used this program on many people before and it's very important to start conservatively to allow your body to handle the volume of the squatting. Start everything conservatively. Get in the first 2 weeks without ever having to grind a rep out - that way your body adjusts to the workout itself. Then you can start pushing the weight a little more.

Matt

 

[kenneth]

Also, another note...I've used this program on many people before and it's very important to start conservatively to allow your body to handle the volume of the squatting. Start everything conservatively. Get in the first 2 weeks without ever having to grind a rep out - that way your body adjusts to the workout itself. Then you can start pushing the weight a little more.

Matt

thanks! i picked up on that too when you said that in another thread, i'll definately start conservatively, especially since i've never done squats 3 days a week at all, for the msot part not even 2!

 

[Bob Smith]

Also, another note...I've used this program on many people before and it's very important to start conservatively to allow your body to handle the volume of the squatting. Start everything conservatively. Get in the first 2 weeks without ever having to grind a rep out - that way your body adjusts to the workout itself. Then you can start pushing the weight a little more.

Matt

How important is the lower-weight squatting on Wed? Will that make a big difference in the overall program or not much?

 

[AnimalMass]

Yeah, Bob - I think it does. The dynamic of the program is squatting 3 times per week in the beginning. Now, you may be getting to the point where you can't handle that anymore based on your strength levels - but I'm not sure. I know oftentimes JS has his athletes do front squatting there instead of the backsquatting.

The Wednesday session is more for nueral reasons, I believe, rather than structural. But there is something in that 3rd session that makes a difference for sure.

Matt

 

[Freddy]

Yeah, Bob - I think it does. The dynamic of the program is squatting 3 times per week in the beginning. Now, you may be getting to the point where you can't handle that anymore based on your strength levels - but I'm not sure. I know oftentimes JS has his athletes do front squatting there instead of the backsquatting.

The Wednesday session is more for nueral reasons, I believe, rather than structural. But there is something in that 3rd session that makes a difference for sure.

Matt

You benefit from the additional weekly loading.

If you're not going to do the Wednesday squat session, then you need to do more sets on Monday and Friday. Doing this works well also, but I think the 3x a week is still superior.

 

[Bob Smith]

You benefit from the additional weekly loading.

If you're not going to do the Wednesday squat session, then you need to do more sets on Monday and Friday. Doing this works well also, but I think the 3x a week is still superior.

OK, thanks guys!

 

[AnimalMass]

Well, I think the idea is this: It's not really beneficial as bodybuilder to squat three times per week for 6 months. But I do think it is beneficial to do so for 6-8 weeks and then taper down to squatting 2 times per week.

Then every few months, run squatting 3 times per week for a 4 week period.

Matt

 

[kenneth]

screwing up?

I need to make sure I'm not screwing this up. Other than squatting on friday, which exercises do you NOT do 5x5 with a set weight? so far I've used 5x5 with a set weight with for everything other than friday's squats, where the weight was ramped up to a max, and fridays benching, where the weight was again ramped up to a max. EVERYTHING on monday and wednesday was done with 5x5 with the same weight. Is this being done properly thus far? if so, are my friday rows supposed to ramp up to a max too, or 5x5 with the same weight? thanks for any help.

Ken

 

[AnimalMass]

Yes, you are doing it right. The 5x5 on friday is ramped up to a 5 rep max. Are you following my tweak of the 5x5? Or the original. BTW, the original is fine the way it is, bit I tweak it a bit for guys who's main goal is size, rather than strength.

If you are doing 5x5 flat bench on monday and 5x5 incline on friday, then one week I would do 5x5 with a set weight for both, and then the following week work up to a 5 rep max for both. If you are just flat benching both times, then do 5x5 on monday with a set weight and ramp up on Friday.

The rows can be done both ways too. set weight on Monday, ramp up on Friday.

Matt

 

[Phreezer]

Matt or Freddy, what are your thoughts on doing Push Presses or wider grip Upright rows in place of Military presses? Substituting Push Presses shouldn't make much of a difference but what about the upright Rows? Does this take too much away from the "Push" part of the program?

 

[kenneth]

Yes, you are doing it right. The 5x5 on friday is ramped up to a 5 rep max. Are you following my tweak of the 5x5? Or the original. BTW, the original is fine the way it is, bit I tweak it a bit for guys who's main goal is size, rather than strength.

If you are doing 5x5 flat bench on monday and 5x5 incline on friday, then one week I would do 5x5 with a set weight for both, and then the following week work up to a 5 rep max for both. If you are just flat benching both times, then do 5x5 on monday with a set weight and ramp up on Friday.

The rows can be done both ways too. set weight on Monday, ramp up on Friday.

Matt

I am following your tweak of the 5x5, however I am doing the incline benching on monday, and decline benching on friday. Which is another thing i wanted to ask you, is it okay or not okay to have replaced flat benching with decline benching? I basically did it out of second nature, I threw out the flat bench from my workout years ago and never looked back. but I've never followed a program like this previously so i wouldn't know if that's a sin to can the flat bench for this type of workout. should i put the flat bench back into play for friday? thanks for your help, i'll ramp up all 3 exercises to a max on friday, and stick with the 5x5's with set weight the rest of the time. By the way I'm sure it would help to know that the reason i got rid of the flat bench was because it was just never a comfortable position for me, my left shoulder always felt like it was going to pop. but NEVER felt that way with inclines or declines, so i assumed it just wasn't right for me. this was years ago however, i could give it another whirl. thanks again!

 

[kenneth]

bump, anyone have a response for this? thanks.