6-OXO and fighting estrogen

[Vforcer2]

I have been reading about some terrific results guys are obtaining with this stuff for boosting thier natural T production as well as blocking estrogen. My last blood test showed my E levels to be high, out of range so I have cut my T injections back from 150mg per week to 120mg per week and then will retest in a few weeks. I also have doubled my dose of Dim to 320mg twice per day.

If all this does not work, I am wondering if Ergopharm's 6-OXO or a similar product might offer me the solution. Since this product is relatively new I am wondering what the long term effects might be. It is said to be a natural compound the fights estrogen.

Any thoughts?

 

[earthdog]

Tough to say. On one hand, its inventor, Pat Arnold, is one of the better supplement designers around, and he doesn't overhype his products or make claims that aren't true. I know that for a fact. On the other hand, there is no real testing or any real data you look at. What are the side effects? Many have reported that raging acne is one side effect, myself included. What are the others? What happens when you go off of it? Can you take it safely for long periods of time? Is it toxic? No one really knows that stuff, including Pat. Also, many have reported that the subjective benefits (the how do you feel part)of reduced estrogen and increased testosterone are not present with 6-OXO, myself included. Why is that? Again, no one knows. Personally, I think you'd be be better off with a doctor prescribed and monitored anti-estrogen drug. Just my two cents. Also, isn't 640mg of DIM a really big dose?

 

[DavidZ]

I also have doubled my dose of Dim to 320mg twice per day.

What brand are you using? I strongly recommend Indolplex/DIM by PhytoPharmica. See:

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

This brand gives consistently good results, both for me and for many other posters. Other brands have been hit or miss.

 

[Vforcer2]

The DIM I take is Indoplex. The brand name is Tyler, which is a top of the line product distributed primarily by professionals. I have had no adverse side effects as of yet and I have been double dosing the DIM for about a week. After all it is a product derived from cruciferous veggies, so I am not too worried about taking to much of it.

 

[DavidZ]

The DIM I take is Indoplex. The brand name is Tyler, which is a top of the line product distributed primarily by professionals.

Look carefully at the two products. Tyler looks like a knock-off of Indolplex. The ingredients are close, but not the same.

Indolplex by PhytoPharmica is manufactured under the BioResponse (Dr. Zeligs') patent (US Patent 6,086,915) and is labelled as such. Tyler says "patent pending." The website that sells Tyler says "PhytoPharmica is a Trademark of Doctors Choice." PhytoPharmica is a division of Enzymatic Therapy, one of the most highly-respected brands of food supplement on the market.

I have had no adverse side effects as of yet and I have been double dosing the DIM for about a week.

My guess is that your not getting the positive benefits, either. I take a quarter of a tablet a day and it reduces my E2 in half. This is documented by about 20 blood test results.

After all it is a product derived from cruciferous veggies, so I am not too worried about taking to much of it.

If I took 2 tablets a day, I'd crash big time in about 2 days. Been there, done that.

Either the Tyler product is inferior or Indolplex/DIM doesn't work well for you. I gather Indolplex/DIM doesn't work for some men. Do you have before and after T and E2 tests to document it's effect on you?

 

[wrathe]

6-0x0; a long time friend of mine tried it for 2 months and had nothing but success from it. he is 37 years old had alot of fat around his titties and stomache from poor diet for many years (was a very fat 245 now leaner 188). he said he was waiking up at night from WOOD! he was oly taking it to see if would reduce puffy nipples...by the way he got from 245 to 188 on 3 days a week of cardio and 3 days a week of full body workouts;and zero carb 30 days then veggies for carbs and high protein took him 4 months

 

[pmgamer18]

6-0x0 does work but the cost is so high. The Indolplex/DIM that David is talking about is great my Dr. feels it is a wonder drug. His wife is a Dr. and was have change problems she tried it and it fixed her problems.

I get the wood all nigh taking Indolplex it I feel is from the E2 going down and this helps the T go up.

I weight 290 lbs. and make more E2 then the average person. I and doing 150 mgs. of Depo T every week and taking one half of an Indolplex/DIM keeps my E2 under control. My Dr. feels that mixing Indolplex/DIM and Arimidex is a good mix so on a bad day when my E2 is giving trouble I take a 1/4 of and arimidex not to take more then 3x's a week. Some weeks I never take it and then there are weeks where I need the 3 .25 mgs. a week.

I have been to low and it is no fun to mess with your E2 with out a blood test to show you are to high is just crazy. It was very hard to keep in check when I was doing the Testim 10 grams and getting a 100 mgs. shot every other week. The best thing I have done in the 21 yrs on TRT is to do shots every week to me this is the best treatment for me.
Phil

 

[Vforcer2]

DavidZ, it really suprises me that some of you guys have such a sensitivity to Dim, yet I do not. I will have to try the Phytopharmica brand to see if it makes any difference. Both brands use the Indoplex Dim in the thier product, so I would think that they would have the same or similar effectivness. I chose the Tyler brand because a well known nutritionist that I hired as a consultant for my wife's breast cancer had personally had the Tyler product lab tested for purity and content.

My problem may be Iron Overload that may in some way keep the Indoplex from doing its job. I just gave blood yesterday to test my serum iron levels, iron binding levels, and ferritin levels. As things stand right now, my Hematocrit, Hemoglobin, Serum Iron, and Bilirubin are all elevated out of range. I will know soon enough if I suffer from that condition.

Before starting TRT my Estradiol was 32 with no reference range given. After 5 weeks using 150mg of Cyp per week, my Estradiol was 59 with a range of 0-53 and this is after consuming 320mg DIM daily for about two weeks before testing.

Wrathe, it looks like your friend had excellent results, but I would have to wonder if his new diet and exercise program gave him most of the results he received. I am sure the 6-OXO helped some.

 

[DavidZ]

As things stand right now, my Hematocrit, Hemoglobin, Serum Iron, and Bilirubin are all elevated out of range.

Another thing to consider is that your T shot dosage is still too high. The best way to keep E2 in check is to keep your T from going too high. Excess T produces excess E2.

 

[SWALE]

Right!

 

[Vforcer2]

David, these blood levels were all elevated prior to starting TRT.

Why do you think my dosage is still to high? It appears most men need between 100-200mg of Cyp.

 

[DavidZ]

David, these blood levels were all elevated prior to starting TRT.

Why do you think my dosage is still to high? It appears most men need between 100-200mg of Cyp.

From what I've read and observed, the most common dosage of Test Cyp is 100 mg per week. At 120 mg a week, you're 20% higher than that.

But dosages should be tailored to each individual. The question is - what dosage is right for you? The only way to find out is to change your dosage, hold it constant for a few weeks, test your blood, and see how you feel.

I noticed that your hematocrit is high. This is a common byproduct of excess T. I think you may be saying that your hematocrit was high before starting TRT, but I can't say for sure because you haven't posted your complete blood test history including your protocols at the time.

In general, the most common mistake men make with regard to TRT is taknig too much. They think - gee, if X is good, then X+10 should be even better! But TRT doesn't work that way. The key to success with TRT is proper dosing. More is not better. More is worse. Excess T produces excess E2.

 

[Vforcer2]

Yes David, my Hematocrit and Hemoglobin levels were elevated just slightly out of range prior to TRT. After 5 weeks at 150mg of Cyp per week these values were virtually unchanged. I relize that I probably overshot the mark at 150mg per week, that is why I have reduced that dosage and retest. If everything is still elevated, I will reduce once again.

 

[stat1951]

Re: 6-oxo

Interesting story with excellent results. But did this individual also have a situation where he was on TRT?

Obviously a lot of his succes would (IMHO) be from his diet and combined with the exercise he was now doing.

And a LOT could have to do with his use of 6-OXO. Unfortunately we don't know anything about his hormone levels "before and after".

Did he actually have elevated E2 levels (sounds like probably so from description, but we just don't know)? Did his Free T levels climb at the end of his regimen... and, if so, how much was attributable to 6-OXO and how much to diet / exercise?

As to price, I don't know what the DIM being used is costing, but I have recently seen 6-OXO 60 tablets for $26 and change....

http://www.a1nutritionproducts.com/...6-oxo" powder bulk&OVKEY=6 oxo&OVMTC=advanced
http://www.vitadigest.com/ergopharm...6-oxo" powder bulk&OVKEY=6 oxo&OVMTC=advanced

Also read that someone was offering a bulk powder version of the primary ingredient of 6-OXO (androstenetrione)???

6-0x0; a long time friend of mine tried it for 2 months and had nothing but success from it. he is 37 years old had alot of fat around his titties and stomache from poor diet for many years (was a very fat 245 now leaner 188). he said he was waiking up at night from WOOD! he was oly taking it to see if would reduce puffy nipples...by the way he got from 245 to 188 on 3 days a week of cardio and 3 days a week of full body workouts;and zero carb 30 days then veggies for carbs and high protein took him 4 months

 

[earthdog]

As to price, I don't know what the DIM being used is costing, but I have recently seen 6-OXO 60 tablets for $26 and change....

http://www.a1nutritionproducts.com/...6-oxo" powder bulk&OVKEY=6 oxo&OVMTC=advanced
http://www.vitadigest.com/ergopharm...6-oxo" powder bulk&OVKEY=6 oxo&OVMTC=advanced

Also read that someone was offering a bulk powder version of the primary ingredient of 6-OXO (androstenetrione)???

If I remember correctly, the dosage for 6-OXO was 3 to 6 capsules a day. DIM is a heck of a lot cheaper and at least has some science behind it. I'm not saying 6-OXO doesn't work or isn't safe, all I'm saying is that no one really knows. And yes, some retailers used to sell, and maybe still do sell, androstenetrione powder. It was not banned in the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004. Try 1fast400.com, they have good service and good prices.

 

[Arnold73]

I must say the information here is priceless. Keep it up guys!