A Rather Strange Email Thread

[SWALE]

Yesterday, out of the blue, I get a fairly nasty email from someone whose address I do not recognize. The entire thread is posted next, complete to the last detail, except I have deleted the sender's email address. YOU WILL NEED TO READ IT FROM BOTTOM TO TOP, as I merely cut and paste the entire thread.

Just a little entertainment on a TGIF.

 

[SWALE]

Wayne

Now I do not think you are someone who is just having a bit of fun. Instead, you are obviously a very troubled individual.

Has someone hurt you? Why is it you are so full of rage? Or are you just very lonely? You insist on protecting your ignorance, bolstered by a total of common sense, maturity, or decency. Even in the face of your extremely immature and baseless insulting behavior, I have graciously offered to help you understand these concepts. And, in the interest of mens health, I still would. I hate to say it, but you have serious issues, Dude.

You send me these nonsensical and hateful emails, anonymously, out of the blue. And there is not statement you have made which has a whit of sense to it. You could not be more wrongbut it is obvious same is not a concern of yours, and there are other agendas at play.

Im going to post your emails, and my responses, over on my Forum at Meso. Ill bet there are a dozen guys there who will be able to show you the error of your ways. It really is not complicated at all.

Come on over, if you have the willor the sense. You are now reminding me of a few guys who have been absolute jerks on the Boards, and have been banned for same. If you are one of them, I would encourage you to talk about your issues with a qualified professional.

I hope some day you are able to better yourself.

Regards,

Dr. John Crisler, DO



-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:45 AM
To: Dr. John Crisler
Subject: RE: trt



You are so full of yourself it is truely comical. The problem is, in

a nutshell, that you have a much higher opinion of you than

I have of you. You are a "legend in your own mind", but impress

me not at all, and franky, your butt belongs in jail for the permanent

damage you are likely causing. Get good insurance.



"Dr. John Crisler" <DoctorJohn@AllThingsMale.com> wrote:

Wayne

I just figured this out. Originally I thought you must be:

1). A very troubled individual who is trying to make himself feel important by attacking an Authority Figure.

2). A scared, lonely little boy seeking attention.

3). A 34 year old typing from the computer in his mothers basement, where he lives.

4). Some one I have ended up having to smoke on one of the Boards.

5). Some sad combination of 1-4.

But now I get it! You are someone I know, who is just pulling my leg. NO ONE could be so ignorant as to make the statements you have, yet be so full of confidence in them. That is just not possible for someone who maintains enough intelligence to remember to breathe.

How did I figure it out? The ignorant statements are sort of loosely structured. They are just too perfect in their ridiculousness. But you had me for a minute there.

Okay, which one of you guys is it? Bob? Tatyana? Hans? Nick, Charles, Thierry? Please do not be insulted if you are someone other than those possible culprits listedIll eventually figure it out.

Im glad I didnt let this fictional character really have itand it was tempting.

That was a good one. Whoever you are, thank you for todays entertainment! I owe you a cold one.

Regards,

John

Dr. John Crisler, DO



-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:16 PM
To: Dr. John Crisler
Subject: RE: trt



Doc-

Actually, yes, hcg and the like would probably only further delay/inhibit

recovery...I do indeed already know this, but am franky surprised you

do. I do not need any lectures, however, from the likes of you regarding

the "Endocrinological" (lmao) system....how do you know these men

'would have become irrevocably hypogonadal anyway" ?? That is an

extremely irresponsible statement that you cannot substantiate. The

more likely scenario, is that they have become that way not because

"mother nature is boss", but because of YOU and your "highly advanced

protocol" I have read the posts from some of your patients regarding

your treatment methods, and there is nothing brilliant about your work

at all. How can you claim to have "brought back" men to baseline, when

you readily admit you did nothing at all following HRT? No need to respond,

Im done with this conversation, but thanks anyway for your input.





"Dr. John Crisler" <DoctorJohn@AllThingsMale.com> wrote:

Wayne

I simply do not know how better to word this, other than to simply repeat myself: you are utterly, completely wrong. I have brought literally dozens of men back to baseline following extensive periods on TRT. There is no denying the validity of my work. I have piles of labs to prove it.

If you understood the complexities of the Endocrinological system, AND had real life experience with it, you would already know this. Of course, it does not work every time, but it is also true that the same percentage of men probably would have become irrevocably hypogonadal during that time anyway. Mother Nature will always show us she is the boss.

Let me offer an example of your ignorance: you do not use any PCT medications following APPROPRIATE TRT while undergoing a trial of abstinence. It is simply unnecessary. Or perhaps it is because my TRT protocols are so much more advanced than other doctors are using. Either way, you got the wrong guy.

All the best to you.

Regards,

Dr. John Crisler, DO



-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:11 PM
To: Dr. John Crisler
Subject: RE: trt



Look Doc, I will give you my name and adress if you really want it,

I had no idea it was important to you...but can assure you it is

not due to being a "coward". Yes, actually I do know what I am

talking about. My comments actually were not meant to be as

personal as they came across. So you just want to go on the record

as saying you can put somebody on LENGTHY TRT.......have them stop,

give them hcg, nolvadex, or whatever your choice is to aid recovery, and

then test hormone levels say..1 month after the patient has been off ALL

medication, and NOT have the testosterone level be lower than ever?? Is

that what you are saying? I am saying a patient who was "borderline" low

to begin with will NEVER recover from this, and will be forced to take replacement

therapy forever. And deep down, I think you know I am correct. My point was,

patients need to know this....and many docs either do not know or do not

care....I have no idea about you personally.



wayne

"Dr. John Crisler" <DoctorJohn@AllThingsMale.com> wrote:

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Only cowards send anonymous emails.

Regards,

Dr. John Crisler, DO



-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 5:36 PM
To: Dr. John Crisler
Subject: RE: trt



I do not care how "international" your reputation is. After one of your patients

has been on HRT for about a year....retest them. I dont mean while they are

on clomid or hcg either...test them while off ALL medication for several weeks.

Their testosterone level will be lower than before "therapy" was initiated, and will

NEVER recover. That is a fact......there are as many morons in your profession

as any other, and your credentials mean nothing to me.

"Dr. John Crisler" <DoctorJohn@AllThingsMale.com> wrote:

I beg your pardon? What brought THAT on?

I am well aware of the effects of TRT on the body, as I am an internationally recognized expert on the subject. You are quite mistaken in your assumption, insulting tone aside. If you indeed have an interest in this subject, I would encourage you to learn a bit more about the Endocrinological system, and would be happy to help you do so.

Regards,

Dr. John Crisler, DO



-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 4:20 PM
To: DoctorJohn@AllThingsMale.com
Subject: trt



What you conveniently fail to mention, is that once hrt is initiated, a LIFELONG

decision has been made. You are only further suppressing natural production

to an extent that will ultimately leave absolutely no hope of recovery. If the patient

has to halt trt for any reason, natural levels will then be even lower than before

trt was initiated, and will likely remain that way. I bet you are not explaining this

to your patients though, now are you?

 

[cpeil2]

Swale;

I think your time is too valuable to waste on jerks like this. We all believe in you. Let it go.

Chris

 

[SWALE]

As I said, just having a little fun. Didn't you think I was being pretty funny? I sometimes think I am being hilarious; problem is, I may be the only one who thinks so. LOL.

I think I spent a total of 10 minutes on this. But seriously, I would have been happy had I been able to talk some sense into him. Sometimes the worst sceptics turn into the best proponents once they "get it". This is true from within the conventional medcial community, as well.

 

[dj75]

Swale I guess i am borderline low at 365 (260-1000) what can i do to get myself into the 500 or 600?
I've seen HRT doctors and they tell me to relax it was the PH i took and that my body will rebound.........

i'ts been 5 months.........and it my take another 5 months...... but the doctors have reassured me that its on the rise........(test show that) ots in black and white.......

I have gone to a very prominant uro in NYC (Columbia-Presbyterian)......He has costed me about $600 for 2 visits (he does not accept insurance)....... He administers HRT and told me the following:

My LH is coming back but it will take some time for my testosterone to catch up in the blood and start circulating......

He would not give me clomid unless my test was at about 200.....he said anything over 300 the clomid would only cause a temporary rise.......

He works with a lot of Steroid users who have testosterone levels of 50, 75, 100......and even then he will try and start their own production with clomid and HCG..........before TRT.......

he is open to giving me TRT (only if he did not see the rise in my levels)....Of course i want to make my own........so i will wait......and see

So i will see him in three months........for more blood work to see if i have continued the rise

Also told me if i lose wait (I'm 5'-10" and 230#) and excercise my testosterone will continue to rise.....
what kind of rise can i expect with a 10-15# weight lose.......Also I have just
recently found out that my GF is pregant......So i was a bit stressed when I took my latest blood work........

 

[SWALE]

dj, please go ahead and post this in a new thread.

 

[cpeil2]

As I said, just having a little fun. Didn't you think I was being pretty funny? I sometimes think I am being hilarious; problem is, I may be the only one who thinks so. LOL.

Sorry, Doc. Sometimes I can be one of those humorless types that people have to nudge and say "C'mon, that was a joke, get it?" Maybe if I ever succeed in getting my hormones tuned, my sense of humor will perk up.

 

[Ender]

Ulter...

 

[SWALE]

???

...it does sound exactly like him.

Or maybe "FONZ" has reappeared. LOL.

 

[SWALE]

Another thread here made me think: maybe it's "Cy Willson". Another self-professed "guru".

 

[Ender]

???

...it does sound exactly like him.

Or maybe "FONZ" has reappeared. LOL.

I've had a few conversations (re: you) with "Ulter" and it really sounds a lot like one of his rants. He referred to damage you'd done to your patients and the "peddling of your program to guys that, obviously don't need it". Hes also ranted more than once regarding your arrogance and self-claimed legendary status. Not sure of the history between the two of you, or why he still cares.

Fonz always spent too much time trying to make himself sound smart as he always wanted that recognition. Thats all he wanted, I suspect. This Wayne doesnt appear to have invested much effort in cogency, so probably not him.

 

[SWALE]

Good points. I had not thought of him before you mentioned it, but it does sound just like him: here I am willing to explain, in simple terms he can understand, why he is mistaken, backed up by real-world experience with more patients than I can remember, and he just goes on with his ignorance.

When I was still taking Internet patients, I could always tell when this "Ulter" character was going off: all of a sudden, a whole bunch of new patients would stream in.

I could never figure out why so many think he knows anything about the science behind this stuff. He has failed to grasp even the first week, first semester concepts. Yet he has always pounded on his chest, actually stating that he is the smartest guy on the Message Boards. LOL.

I especially liked his "you are an embarrassment to your profession" schtick. Last weekend, while lecturing to a whole room full of Anti-Aging Medicine physician experts at The Royal College of Physicians in London, who were furiously taking notes during my talk, not one of them mentioned me "damaging my patients". And this is coming from a guy who openly advocates the use of high dose steroids? I doubt he can see the irony of this position, outside the ridiculousness of his statements.

As far as "legendary status" goes, that is something one must work a lifetime to achieve.

He has just been absolutely obsessed with me for several years now. No idea why.

From all I can tell, he has largely quieted down his rants about me as of late.

 

[SWALE]

The REAL point of all this is to illustrate the very fact why there are not other physicians helping out on the Boards. Believe me, I have had numerous private communications with doctors who lurk on the Boards, but do not become involved because, in the words of one physician who I consider to be quite knowledgeable in the topics at hand (I was trying to recruit him to help out on one of the Forums I used to Moderate), "who needs that crap?"

Look at what happened to me at both CEM and SBI. In both cases, I resigned gracefully once situations evolved which either I could not be involved in due to my professional license, or simply were no longer tolerable to me personally.

And in both cases, Moderators--and Owners--scrambled in ridiculous attempts to rewrite history. In doing so, they only reinforced my decision to leave as they demonstrated their total lack of honor and integrity. The depths they were only too happy to stoop to would never be tolerated out in the real world, instead of while hiding anonymously (or so they think) behind their computer monitors.

The CEM Forum has now withered to total insignificance.

And the SBI Forum has yet to produce the plethora of doctors promised by the Admin, as I would be "so easy to replace". Reality check. I have been told that, even though not posting there in months, it is still de facto MY Forum.

And these nonsensical attacks all over the Internet by characters such as Ulter. Even "Nandi" got into the act. Had anyone ever actually made a single cogent point it would be different. To date, no one has ever been able to demonstrate a single example of deviation from my upright and honest posture. And I have always directly challenged them to do so--welcoming same on their own turf and here alike.

Suffice it to say apologies have been a bit tardy in arriving. The offending, and offensive, indivduals involved simply do not possess the moral fiber to do so.

I have taken a fair amount of heat from the conventional medical community for assisting on the AAS Message Boards. But it has been nothing like that coming from within the Message Board community itself. In all cases, it has resulted from either self-professed "gurus" who have had their fragile egos bruised by actual science (and would have better served by actually taking the time to put in the concentrated study necessary to avoid simple errors in basic physiology and pharmacology), or commercial interests every bit as corrupt as that for which these very same individuals criticize the legitimate pharmaceutical industry. In fact, in some ways, the controlling interests in the Message Board community have become their own little mini-bureaucracy.

And all the while criticising my efforts as somehow commercially driven. That is especially insulting when I have deferred my time from building my medical practice to give free advice to those who I will never know or meet. The simple fact of the matter is that I have not cleared $5 per hour from all the time I have spent on the Boards. Interesting to note is the fact that those who have made these baseless criticisms of me are themselves making a living (or trying to) from these same Boards.

"Who needs that kind of crap" in the midst of a 16 hour work day?

Am I sticking my thumb in some people's eyes? Sure. But they so richly deserve it.

I guess I just wanted to express some thoughts I have been entertaining for some time now. The character who sent me these ridiculous emails merely served as catalyst for me to do so.

Which takes me--and us--to the final position of how comfortable and happy I am here at Meso. Sure, the Owner and I disagree wholeheartedly on many important points. But we have always dealt with each other respectfully, as men should and do. This serves as the only example of an Owner actually doing more for me than I him. And that is because I genuinely enjoy hanging out with the good gentlemen here. Even while quite stressed by the challenges of bringing a new kind of medicine to male health--and trying to survive financially while doing so--I always look forward to the time I can steal away to be with you all. I regret that time is not more abundant.

There can be no doubt that THE male Anti-Aging Forum rests solidly, and indisputably, at Meso. While it takes a genuine authority on the subject, a physician who actually practices at the cutting edge, to make this happen, this is, for the greater part, directly the result of the efforts of our good members--such as you.

 

[DavidZ]

Interesting.

Go get 'em, Swale!

 

[SWALE]

I posted a tuned up version of my last reply in the For New Members sticky.