Adding T3 to Test/Tren fat loss cycle

[Jagger34]

Hi all, great site here. Hoping to get some feedback on my current plan.

I'm about 6'3 270 pounds with 15% BF. I've been running my first cycle for about a month and a half now consisting of 350 mg/week of Test Prop and 350 mg/week Tren Ace. Both injected daily.

I'm also working with a big name diet coach. So far my fat loss has been acceptable, with strength increase to boot, but I really want to "bring it home" so to speak over my next few weeks and am planning to add T3 to the mix as well.

I started out at 25 mcg/day 4 days ago, and increased to 50 mcg/day yesterday. I was planning to work up to 100 mcg/day as I have read elsewhere, but it seems that an absolute max of 75 mcg is recommended here, with a more conservative 50 mcg being standard.

My question is: should I attempt to push this up to 75 mcg/day since I should, in theory, be sparing my muscle with the test/tren? Or should I stop at 50 mcg/day? Any feedback and experiences would be appreciated.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

This study was in healthy young men (e.g., bodybuilders). Essentially, for every 2 pounds of fat loss, there is 1 pound of muscle loss. And the length of the study, 9 weeks, is slightly less than a typical AAS cycle leading to more muscle loss.


T3 treatment began following the 3-week run-in period and continued for 63 days (9 weeks). All subjects initially received 75? g/day T3 (liothyronine sodium, Cytomel, Smith-Kline-Beecham, Philadelphia, PA) in five doses every 4 h during waking hours beginning at 0600 h. This dose was chosen based on a previously described paradigm suggesting that this dose produced serum levels of approximately 4.6–5.4 nmol/L. The dose was reduced if a subject became symptomatic or if serum T3 levels exceeded 2 SD above the mean for the T3 assay in our laboratory (?4.6 nmol/L). All subjects but two received dose reduction to either 62.5 or 50 ?g/day T3, in most cases due to higher than desirable levels of serum T3. The timing of dose reduction differed among subjects, with most subjects being reduced to 62.5 ?g/day after approximately 2 weeks of treatment.

Lovejoy JC, Smith SR, Bray GA, et al. A Paradigm of Experimentally Induced Mild Hyperthyroidism: Effects on Nitrogen Balance, Body Composition, and Energy Expenditure in Healthy Young Men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1997;82(3):765-70. http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/82/3/765.long (A Paradigm of Experimentally Induced Mild Hyperthyroidism: Effects on Nitrogen Balance, Body Composition, and Energy Expenditure in Healthy Young Men)

Although T3 exerts major regulatory actions in both animals and humans, most clinical studies of T3 administration have been relatively short term. The present study examined the effects of more than 2 months (63 days) of low dose T3 treatment on nitrogen balance, body composition, 24-h energy expenditure (EE), and protein turnover in seven healthy men studied at an in-patient metabolic unit. Subjects were also randomly assigned to either high or low fat diets to determine the effects of diet composition. T3 treatment produced significant losses in both lean mass (1.5 {+/-} 0.3 kg) and fat mass (2.7 {+/-} 0.4 kg) by 6 weeks, with similar reductions in both at 9 weeks. The high fat diet somewhat attenuated the loss of body fat. Nitrogen balance was significantly negative for the first 3 weeks of T3 treatment, but tended to return to baseline thereafter. There were no significant effects of treatment on protein turnover at 9 weeks, although there was a slight increase in leucine oxidation (P = 0.07). Despite the apparent adaptation in nitrogen balance, total 24-h EE and sleeping EE were significantly increased at 9 weeks. We conclude that although healthy men are able to adapt to mild hyperthyroidism in terms of nitrogen balance, they exhibit significant and persistent changes in fat and fat-free mass as well as energy balance.

 

[Jagger34]

So what you're saying is keep it to no more than 50 mcg and be prepared to lose a little bit of muscle? lol.

I appreciate the feedback Dr. Scally--thanks. I guess I have to decide if the muscle loss will be worth it. I'm only planning to run for 4 weeks so hopefully not too much of my hard earned muscle will be eaten!

 

[mac111]

So what you're saying is keep it to no more than 50 mcg and be prepared to lose a little bit of muscle? lol.

I appreciate the feedback Dr. Scally--thanks. I guess I have to decide if the muscle loss will be worth it. I'm only planning to run for 4 weeks so hopefully not too much of my hard earned muscle will be eaten!

unles you're a competitive strength athlete then i see no harm in losing alittle muscle, rem the leaner you are the bigger you'll look (within reason). if you get the fat off, you can keep it off with diet and then work on increasing muscle mass.

 

[whitegato777]

I wouldnt recommend taking more then 25mcg and only while taking a 11d hsd type 1 inhibitor like hgh or 11oxo to help keep the muscle loss down