Advice coming off 2 year trt

[tusoa]

I'll make this short and answer questions if needed. I've been on TRT for 2 years. Was put on after a diagnosis of 300 T levels in my blood. However I was coming off of a cycle and also had a very bad lifestyle. Would love to see what my real T levels naturally would be. However I've been on 200 mg T for 2 years along with 1500iu of HCG each week (divided every 3.5 days). So I'm not sure what I should use or expect when coming off this treatment. I don't think HCG would be an option, just looking for suggestions.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

How is HCG not an option? You’ll need a combo of hcg, nolva, and clomid most likely, timed correctly for the ester of test you’re using. There are several threads on this exact topic and one is more or less worst-case protocol for rebooting HPTA. Search a bit and it’ll turn up.

just as a comment, 1500iu of hcg per week on cycle seems outrageously high.

 

[The Terminator]

Well you can stop trt, increase your dose of hCG, and after a couple weeks where you know that your trt is no longer significantly influencing your TT get it tested. If you’re TT is above 400-450 from the hCG you can then transition to the serm phase of pct.

How is HCG not an option? You’ll need a combo of hcg, nolva, and clomid most likely, timed correctly for the ester of test you’re using. There are several threads on this exact topic and one is more or less worst-case protocol for rebooting HPTA. Search a bit and it’ll turn up.

just as a comment, 1500iu of hcg per week on cycle seems outrageously high.

That dose is within range to have similar ITT levels as pre trt if started at the same time. In a study trt men that used 250iu eod or 875iu/wk only had a drop of 7% of ITT levels. Those that did 500iu eod or 1750iu/wk had a 26% increase.

 

[tusoa]

So youre suggesting removing external testosterone, but keeping up HCG. I understand that HCG would act like LH and keep the balls pumping out the testosterone. But at some point I would have to stop the HCG because otherwise the LH producing cells would never kick back in. So in a month out or so, I should just start tapering off the HCG?

I'm thinking I should take my T levels now, then eliminate testosterone but keep HCG for a month and take my T levels, and then remove HCG completely and take my T levels another month out.

 

[BirdieNumNum]

at some point I would have to stop the HCG because otherwise the LH producing cells would never kick back in.

Bull shit.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Well you can stop trt, increase your dose of hCG, and after a couple weeks where you know that your trt is no longer significantly influencing your TT get it tested. If you’re TT is above 400-450 from the hCG you can then transition to the serm phase of pct.



That dose is within range to have similar ITT levels as pre trt if started at the same time. In a study trt men that used 250iu eod or 875iu/wk only had a drop of 7% of ITT levels. Those that did 500iu eod or 1750iu/wk had a 26% increase.

I misread. Didn’t see “week”

@ OP the entire effect of PCT is dependent on timing ancillary use to not be crushed by exogenous hormones still in your system. “A month” is an irrelevant time period. PCT needs to be timed to ester of test you’re using. HCG should continue until exogenous hormones have been discontinued for 5-6 half lives of the longest ester. I personally like to overlap the serm phase with HCG, but I know there are other opinions here.

you still haven’t proposed a protocol for us to discuss

 

[tusoa]

It looks like I may not have access to any pct meds other than the last of my hcg (2 weeks worth). I do actually have a large supply of Arimdex, if that is useful as an option to Nolva/clomid/hcg.
BUT.. I was wondering if a good weight lifting regimen can act like a pct. I haven't been in the gym for 9 months due to a torn shoulder and knee. But I just got the ok to return. I know weight lifting naturally increases testosterone, so I was wondering if this could actually be an effective PCT since I haven't been in the gym for so long.

 

[tusoa]

New labs, sound right?
5 weeks since last pin, 4 weeks on pct (tamoxifen and hcg).
Labs just came back as 138 total, and 5.8 free test. Isn't that horribly low this far into pct?

 

[Sven_Northman]

New labs, sound right?
5 weeks since last pin, 4 weeks on pct (tamoxifen and hcg).
Labs just came back as 138 total, and 5.8 free test. Isn't that horribly low this far into pct?

Search on here for Scallys Super PCT. Sounds like you'll need to run a more aggressive PCT again including Clomid this time around. Were you running the HCG with the tamox over those 4 weeks? You should stop the HCG before you start taking serms.

 

[tusoa]

Appreciate it, will look it up. But so many pct routines include hcg and tamoxifen simultaneously.

 

[Mathg44]

Appreciate it, will look it up. But so many pct routines include hcg and tamoxifen simultaneously.

Seems like you did 0 research...

 

[Sven_Northman]

Appreciate it, will look it up. But so many pct routines include hcg and tamoxifen simultaneously.

Not that I'm aware of but I'm always learning. An example of a PCT with HCG is as follows:

21 days after last injection you run 1000iu of HCG EOD. The idea is you give the pituitary a kickstart to produce LH and FSH. Then day after last HCG injection you start Clomid and Nolva. 50mg clomid and 40mg Nolva ED for first week or two then drop the dose to 25/20 for the last three to two weeks. You dont need as much clomid as some say. It doesn't take much to do its job.

Some start the HCG day after last injection. Then when done start the SERMS 21-30 days after last test injection so the ester clears. But this is assuming you're on a long ester like Cypionate or Enanthate. You have to decide what works best for you and your body.

This is just an example. Many other protocols and dosing schemes floating around out there that work. Most important is ensuring the ester is cleared from your blood before starting PCT.

 

[Dirty904]

I personally wait 1 day after last injection cyp ester, start hcg 1000iu eod for 2 week(12days) 500iu eod for 2 weeks (12days) then 50/40 for 2 weeks 25/20 for 2 weeks.