Advice for first time user

[otset83]

Classic post coming up I guess.

Never did any hormones. 40 years old. Started to become lazy on multiple fronts. It is dangerous to become lazy at this age and most guys become fat fast when they become lazy and never recover. Then basically it is over. I had testosterone values tested with endocrine doctor and I was moderately low on testosterone but not under the limit (460). Here TRT is not available from doctors except if you have close to zero. Even to get blood work is almost impossible and only with doctors note.

Anyhow. Since I wasn't happy I spoke to a friend. He has been using for ten years. He reccomended me to give 200 mg/week a try and I did. Now 4 weeks on 200mg test cyp weekly and life is totally different. I go everyday to the gym sometimes twice and to be honest I haven´t had as good pumps for ten years and overall good feeling. He told me to do this for 10-12 weeks. Then stop for some time.

Here it becomes tricky. I read about this PCT. He has no idea about this. I can get through him clomiphene and tamoxiphene. Not HCG. So my question is. How I do this?

20 days tamoxifen 20mg and clomiphene 50mg? I mean at this dose all the estrogen receptors are blocked to the extent that is needed right?

Also, when to start this PCT? Three weeks after last injection? This half life calculation is very confusing.

 

[DECLAN]

There is a dedicated forum for PCT, start reading. Everything is available if you use the search button too, from anecdotal evidence, different approach/method and even studies regarding PCT and compounds.

It's too late to say it now but you should've done research way before you did your first injection.

Anyway, happy reading.

 

[Whopperflopper]

Many men decide on Trt. Doing so under Dr. Supervision is best. You will get labwork that may head off problems.

Others jump all in, self prescribe, take too much, and pay for it down the road.
I fall into both, starting in one, treading water in the last.

Do a few cycles, and Pct. You can always take the leap later.

 

[Jurgen]

Classic post coming up I guess.

Never did any hormones. 40 years old. Started to become lazy on multiple fronts. It is dangerous to become lazy at this age and most guys become fat fast when they become lazy and never recover. Then basically it is over. I had testosterone values tested with endocrine doctor and I was moderately low on testosterone but not under the limit (460). Here TRT is not available from doctors except if you have close to zero. Even to get blood work is almost impossible and only with doctors note.

Anyhow. Since I wasn't happy I spoke to a friend. He has been using for ten years. He reccomended me to give 200 mg/week a try and I did. Now 4 weeks on 200mg test cyp weekly and life is totally different. I go everyday to the gym sometimes twice and to be honest I haven´t had as good pumps for ten years and overall good feeling. He told me to do this for 10-12 weeks. Then stop for some time.

Here it becomes tricky. I read about this PCT. He has no idea about this. I can get through him clomiphene and tamoxiphene. Not HCG. So my question is. How I do this?

20 days tamoxifen 20mg and clomiphene 50mg? I mean at this dose all the estrogen receptors are blocked to the extent that is needed right?

Also, when to start this PCT? Three weeks after last injection? This half life calculation is very confusing.

200mg a week is barely a cycle, that’s lower than my trt dose, although pretty average dose for most peoples trt and what is usually prescribed by a trt clinic.
As for pct, that protocol should work fine for such a low and short cycle, although I’d run it for at least 4 weeks. I Hope shutting your natural production down for barely a trt dose was worth doing a pct and everything else.
You could have gotten more benefit from just getting up and going to the gym without it, then maybe getting into AAS, but you’re an adult and make your own choices. I’d just suggest making more educated ones especially when it comes to hormones. Meso is a good place to gather that information for next time.

 

[bornSkinny]

Why stop after 10-12 weeks you said you were feeling great?

 

[Deezznutzz]

What was you test levels before trt?

 

[Rido]

You shouldn't be running a cycle in general.


If you wanna do trt that's fine but idk why you would be cycling a TRT dose. Going to do more damage to your already crappy hpta system.



Your friend is giving you bad advice.. a cycle of a trt dose? Jesus Christ.

 

[DECLAN]

We all have that friend eh I bet some older folks like me had a deca only or injectable stanazolol as first cycles because either its what his friends in the gym use or the only thing available.

Either way, get your bloodwork done and read the stickies here. There are lots of information for you to digest, keep it simple, then decide what to do after.

 

[otset83]

200mg a week is barely a cycle, that’s lower than my trt dose, although pretty average dose for most peoples trt and what is usually prescribed by a trt clinic.
As for pct, that protocol should work fine for such a low and short cycle, although I’d run it for at least 4 weeks. I Hope shutting your natural production down for barely a trt dose was worth doing a pct and everything else.
You could have gotten more benefit from just getting up and going to the gym without it, then maybe getting into AAS, but you’re an adult and make your own choices. I’d just suggest making more educated ones especially when it comes to hormones. Meso is a good place to gather that information for next time.

Thanks. Any advice on when to start this PCR?

 

[Jurgen]

I’m

Thanks. Any advice on when to start this PCR?

3-4 weeks is fine

 

[otset83]

200mg a week is barely a cycle, that’s lower than my trt dose, although pretty average dose for most peoples trt and what is usually prescribed by a trt clinic.
As for pct, that protocol should work fine for such a low and short cycle, although I’d run it for at least 4 weeks. I Hope shutting your natural production down for barely a trt dose was worth doing a pct and everything else.
You could have gotten more benefit from just getting up and going to the gym without it, then maybe getting into AAS, but you’re an adult and make your own choices. I’d just suggest making more educated ones especially when it comes to hormones. Meso is a good place to gather that information for next time.

One follow up question. Why would 200mg test cyp / week be so small amount of testosterone? Is this really normal TRT treatment? 200mg test cyp weekly?

Isn't the avarage value of free testosterone 290-750ng/dl?

Wouldnt 200mg give around 1600ng/dl? And with build up after 3rd injection be something around 3000ng/dl?

To explain (half life 8 days) so from 1st shot still 475ng/dl is still there and 870ng/dl from the 2nd. Plus the 1600 from the 3rd.

 

[1Megaman]

One follow up question. Why would 200mg test cyp / week be so small amount of testosterone? Is this really normal TRT treatment? 200mg test cyp weekly?

Isn't the avarage value of free testosterone 290-750ng/dl?

Wouldnt 200mg give around 1600ng/dl? And with build up after 3rd injection be something around 3000ng/dl?

To explain (half life 8 days) so from 1st shot still 475ng/dl is still there and 870ng/dl from the 2nd. Plus the 1600 from the 3rd.

Everyone is different 200mg of test puts me at 1178.

 

[Jurgen]

One follow up question. Why would 200mg test cyp / week be so small amount of testosterone? Is this really normal TRT treatment? 200mg test cyp weekly?

Isn't the avarage value of free testosterone 290-750ng/dl?

Wouldnt 200mg give around 1600ng/dl? And with build up after 3rd injection be something around 3000ng/dl?

To explain (half life 8 days) so from 1st shot still 475ng/dl is still there and 870ng/dl from the 2nd. Plus the 1600 from the 3rd.

290-750 isn’t the average, it’s a reference range. Your age etc would determine an average test level. Mine was high 300s low 400s every time I tested pre trt. Also people metabolize and convert testosterone differently so 200mg might put someone at 1600 but that’s someone who doesn’t aromatize much and responds well. Then there is also shbg and other things that play a role in free test etc.
250mg for me puts me right under 1200. But I’m running a “sports trt” right now on my cruise. Which is 3mg per kg body weight and I’m 250lbs and about 15% BF, but I’ll know soon as there’s tank nearby that I’m scheduled to get a test at soon.

 

[otset83]

Very interesting. Thank you for this. This is very good and informative site by the way. I was just reading this brilliant article from Bill Roberts on recovery and the role of estrogen as an antagonist of stimulationg hormones production. It could actually explain many things, f.x. lower testo in general population of western men.

 

[JackSkel]

290-750 isn’t the average, it’s a reference range. Your age etc would determine an average test level. Mine was high 300s low 400s every time I tested pre trt. Also people metabolize and convert testosterone differently so 200mg might put someone at 1600 but that’s someone who doesn’t aromatize much and responds well. Then there is also shbg and other things that play a role in free test etc.
250mg for me puts me right under 1200. But I’m running a “sports trt” right now on my cruise. Which is 3mg per kg body weight and I’m 250lbs and about 15% BF, but I’ll know soon as there’s tank nearby that I’m scheduled to get a test at soon.

I think you may want to highlight its 3 mg per kilogram of LEAN body mass. Some fat fucker is going to see that and justify pushing 300 mg/week “sports” TRT. Lol.

 

[Agent0]

Why are you looking to pct at all ? If you are 40 and This is meant to be trt for quality of life benefits then surely you should be looking to run correctly dosed TRT indefinitely. Unless you are looking to have a child etc.
coming off makes no logical sense as you will just be back to your original problems if not worse. It sounds like you need to actually think more deeply about your reasoning for utilising hormones and if it is something you are willing to commit to long term.

 

[Rido]

I think you may want to highlight its 3 mg per kilogram of LEAN body mass. Some fat fucker is going to see that and justify pushing 300 mg/week “sports” TRT. Lol.

Maybe 3.5mg per kg is a better gauge? Lol

 

[otset83]

Why are you looking to pct at all ? If you are 40 and This is meant to be trt for quality of life benefits then surely you should be looking to run correctly dosed TRT indefinitely. Unless you are looking to have a child etc.
coming off makes no logical sense as you will just be back to your original problems if not worse. It sounds like you need to actually think more deeply about your reasoning for utilising hormones and if it is something you are willing to commit to long term.

Of course. But before commiting for a life time TRT a person better make sure his body can handle the medicinal product. PCT is a good way to minimize the adverse effect of testosterone production suppression after use. It is an interesting biological process.

 

[Agent0]

Of course. But before commiting for a life time TRT a person better make sure his body can handle the medicinal product. PCT is a good way to minimize the adverse effect of testosterone production suppression after use. It is an interesting biological process.

You are already running 200mg a week with positive results and from what you said it sounds like you intend to be on trt…

My point is if you truly want to be on trt for quality of life benefits then Suppression comes with the territory and isn’t something you will ever need to combat.

You should also be having bloods done to find your effective replacement dose.

 

[otset83]

On that, do you guys know any TRT clinics in Europe (excluding UK)?