Advice from those on Cialis/Viagra etc

[Britman]

Hi

I am just wanting to get advice/help from those who are in a relationship and NEED Viagra/Cialis (or any other PDE5 inhibitor) in order to have strong erections and therefore sex (or from single guys who use these drugs regularly and over long period of time)

Background on myself - 37 years old, low T (300 ng/dL in the morning been same levels since I was 27). LH &FSH middle of range, karotype test done and came back normal cells (could be hidden mosaic of course if skin taken from testicles but thats an invasive test). Erections very poor without using PDE5 inhibitors which I have only used on and off for past 10 years as I'm a single guy (like once a month I have used say on average).

My personal findings are Cialis works about 60% of the time for me i.e when doesn't work no effect at all or very little but not good enough for strong erection. When it does work its great of course. Viagra for me has worked about 90% of the time but I have only tried this about 12-20 times over 5 years or so.



SO question really is -for those- who need these drugs for sex what are you findings? specifically are you able to take these drugs (say Cialis 10mg) every 3 days and for it to work well or do they lose efficacy? do you need to change the type of PDE5 maybe for it to work better?

I'm just worried about getting into a relationships and for these drugs to work for several weeks/months and then all of a sudden they stop working. Any guys similar Total T levels to me and used these drugs for years and have a healthy sex life?

I don't want to go on TRT right now due to fertility preservation and of course the pain in the ass of it all (literally).

Thanks in advance

 

[Demondosage]

Test levels are the reason for poor erections, but you know that. Do you know where your estrogen is at? That could also play a role.

I use cialis everyday at 7.5mg. But I'm on TRT so I have that area covered. But yea, you may need some small arimadex doses in there if estro is high.

 

[Britman]

Demondosage

Yeah I guess given that my other health indicators are good e.g. blood pressure, non diabetic, BMI 12.5st and 5 ft 10inches, general sporty (gym or running EOD) etc it has to be testosterone levels. My e2 usually comes back 5-30 pg/DL so - e2 is pretty variable compared to testosterone but seems to be fine in terms of the ratio TT/e2. and e2 is certainly not high.

If your on TRT you should not really need a PDE5 inhibitor (in theory)

Also some guys that have been on TRT (who post on this forum) in the past have said lowish T and viagra/cialis etc is better than being on TRT (for them at least) - guess very much dependant on the individual.

What age are you and what was your TT levels prior to TRT? and now?

Many guys who are older will hit 300-400 TT range when they are in their 60's and certainly here in the UK will be given a PDE5 inhibitor for erections issues rather than TRT...this is the case for some guys on here.

How long have you used cialis EOD for?

I'm really concerned about the effects wearing off after x weeks/months/years so really looking for advice in particular to those having used these drugs for years (if anyone on here) ...surely must be as Viagra has now been available for 20 years now in the US

 

[Britman]

Demondosage

I also meant to say that here in the UK Cialis options are 10mg or 20mg (generally taken every 3 days) or (2.5mg or 5mg taken daily)

You said you are taking 7.5mg daily which seems odd - guess different in the US but seems high dosage for being daily compared to UK

I have taken 20mg tablets of Cialis but actually were less effective for me than the 10mg tablets..just got more sides and less efficacy.

I guess for erections the best that you can do (within ones own control) is to;

1. Avoid porn and masturbation i.e. don't desensitise the brain (the most important organ as everything is controlled from here...response to sexual stimuli) and also excessive masturbation (whatever that is) would also likely be more vigorous and result in more and more faster orgasms therefore leading to ED and gripping the penis highly does not mimic sex lol so again maybe desensitising the penis (just a theory). Maybe avoiding masturbation altogether is a good thing? (if in a relationship)

I guess everyone has different refractory periods but apparently testosterone is highest 6-7 days after orgasm then dips slightly I think - not sure what happens longer term if don't orgasm. I read this as sexual urge is highest around a week after not ejaculating. Worth experimenting with I guess

2. Good diet with right balance of good fats and nuts etc for l-arginine (important in production of nitric oxide needed for erections)

3. Exercise - cardio (30 mins daily high enough intensity to get out of breath) and strength conditioning without over doing it

4. Sleep (7-8 hours good deep sleep)

5. Avoid stress and heavy drinking (or recreational drugs)

If following above and still having issues then some underlying reason (hormonal etc) needs to be investigated - Viagra, Cialis etc tend to be the first line of treatments and if people respond to these then makes sense to use these but of course the underlying issue would still be there and needs to be considered for long term (like my own situation)

 

[Dale338]

Hey Britman,

We've discussed this stuff here before. About the potential for overuse. I'm in the process of never needing these drugs again, but it's been a journey thus far. I'm on TRT now and it's been a rollercoaster of a ride trying to get my E dialed in just right. I keep a very detailed daily log. And I'm getting close to getting this right. So please listen to this!!

When my E is between 15-25, I get erections on demand and they stay rock hard. I awaken with an erection so hard, I have to wait for it to go down in the morning to pee. It takes a half hour or more and comes right back. I feel like a teenager again. My libido is through the roof and I want to screw anything, even fat girls. LOL. When my E is too low, or starts creeping above 35, I'm dead. I get soft erections, or no erections and little to no morning wood.

I spent the past five years taking so much PDE5's it's insane. I was often taking 100mg of viagra with cialis in my system often even mixing in levitra. It was spinning out of control and not working well anymore. I was popping that stuff almost every day. Not good. So my goal is to get my E dialed in and keep my T levels around 800-900 and I believe I will never again have erection issues. When I'm in that zone, I'm telling you brother, life is good!

I would strongly urge you to seek medical attention from a very good hormone doctor who will get you dialed in. You will not even need this crap anymore.

It blows my mind how much estrogen affects libido and erections and most doctors simply ignore it. It's sad actually.

 

[Britman]

Hey Britman,

We've discussed this stuff here before. About the potential for overuse. I'm in the process of never needing these drugs again, but it's been a journey thus far. I'm on TRT now and it's been a rollercoaster of a ride trying to get my E dialed in just right. I keep a very detailed daily log. And I'm getting close to getting this right. So please listen to this!!

When my E is between 15-25, I get erections on demand and they stay rock hard. I awaken with an erection so hard, I have to wait for it to go down in the morning to pee. It takes a half hour or more and comes right back. I feel like a teenager again. My libido is through the roof and I want to screw anything, even fat girls. LOL. When my E is too low, or starts creeping above 35, I'm dead. I get soft erections, or no erections and little to no morning wood.

I spent the past five years taking so much PDE5's it's insane. I was often taking 100mg of viagra with cialis in my system often even mixing in levitra. It was spinning out of control and not working well anymore. I was popping that stuff almost every day. Not good. So my goal is to get my E dialed in and keep my T levels around 800-900 and I believe I will never again have erection issues. When I'm in that zone, I'm telling you brother, life is good!

I would strongly urge you to seek medical attention from a very good hormone doctor who will get you dialed in. You will not even need this crap anymore.

It blows my mind how much estrogen affects libido and erections and most doctors simply ignore it. It's sad actually.

Dale 338

I'm sure you are correct. However being relatively young fertility is crucially important for me so screwing with TRT right now is a major risk to my fertility. If I could not have kids that would of course be a deal breaker in most relationships.

Few q's for you:

(i) What is your TRT regime now? i.e. enanthate weekly/every 2 weeks, use of arimidex/e2 blocker? use of hCG (not just for fertility but for endogenous T production and keep the balls alive)

(ii) If you are doing weekly injections how many days of the week are you 'in the zone' as you put it?

(iii) what were you T levels prior to TRT and specifically how did the PDE5 inhibitor (cialis and viagra work for you)? great in the beginning and less so after 5 year or what?

(iv) Was there any negatives for you in taking viagra and cialis aside from cost? i.e. why stop after year 5 and not year 2 or year 10 (if you went that long)? (here in the UK viagra is £5 per tablet 50mg and Cilais (£10 per tablet for 10mg) so sex would be quite expensive lol

(v) do you still use cialis and or viagra now even with TRT? (I realise you won't need them when 'in the zone')


Yes I have seen a doc and had e2 and TT measured ever year or so for past 5-6 years. My TT is always around 300 with highest being 440 (possibly after taking cialis) ...e2 is around 5-25 normally but e2 is so variable that a one-off reading just gives you a loose indication to where your at (I believe)

 

[Britman]

I also meant to add that even with my low T levels (300 ish) - if I take a viagra or cialis and it works well my blood flow to the balls and penis feels much better ...probably what it should feel like if my TT was much healthier (I am guessing)

Dale 338 - maybe you are a good person to answer that one ...is the feeling the same i.e. viagra/cialis compared to TRT in terms of the fuller feeling in the balls/penis area?

I am wondering is this just a sensation of using these drugs - of course there must be more to it than just increasing blood flow to that area in order to maintain the erections but nothing beats that 'locked in' feeling you get with a good hard on lol

 

[Dale338]

Ok Brit, I'm going to just come at you hard now, from a guy who has been there, done that. I was you, trying to analyze everything, second guess the shit out of myself. tell myself if I get a little more this, or a little more that, my penis will start working. Id monitor every single sign, clue etc. At the end of the day, you know what? My my T is around 800 and my estrogen is between 15-25, I'm an animal. Everything works like I was 16 again. There no denying, theres no guessing, there's no wondering. I'm hungry for sex and I know when I get with my lady, my hormones are there and everything will work. I can't really explain it any other more simple way. And right now, at this moment, that is where I'm finally at. After five years of hell doing what you are doing. Will I get my number out of that zone again? You bet, but I'm learning the skills and knowledge to pull myself right back to where I need to be and it's working.

You Testosterone is low bro. Straight up, low and you know it. You aren't going to be where you want to be until you fix that and when you do, keep your estrogen in line. As for wanting kids, TOTALLY respect that and kids are the best. Go on HCG with your TRT and you'll likely be having them when you want. There's ways to still make that happen. You have low T and nothing will change until you fix that. I get that Cialis and Viagra work some for you, but hormones are the holly grail bro. Until you get those inline, it's just not the same. I was going through the motions of sex for YEARS and now? I'm hungry for it. I crave my girl and she can tell the difference. And it's a GREAT place to be. I feel like a man for the first time in years. I don't say this stuff to belittle you in any way, because I've been right where you are. You forget what it's like to feel the way I do right now and you make excuses for it.

 

[Demondosage]

Demondosage

Yeah I guess given that my other health indicators are good e.g. blood pressure, non diabetic, BMI 12.5st and 5 ft 10inches, general sporty (gym or running EOD) etc it has to be testosterone levels. My e2 usually comes back 5-30 pg/DL so - e2 is pretty variable compared to testosterone but seems to be fine in terms of the ratio TT/e2. and e2 is certainly not high.

If your on TRT you should not really need a PDE5 inhibitor (in theory)

Also some guys that have been on TRT (who post on this forum) in the past have said lowish T and viagra/cialis etc is better than being on TRT (for them at least) - guess very much dependant on the individual.

What age are you and what was your TT levels prior to TRT? and now?

Many guys who are older will hit 300-400 TT range when they are in their 60's and certainly here in the UK will be given a PDE5 inhibitor for erections issues rather than TRT...this is the case for some guys on here.

How long have you used cialis EOD for?

I'm really concerned about the effects wearing off after x weeks/months/years so really looking for advice in particular to those having used these drugs for years (if anyone on here) ...surely must be as Viagra has now been available for 20 years now in the US

I'll be 37 soon. Been on TRT now for abt 6 or 7 years. Been using cialis regularly for past 2-3 yrs.

It's a lot more than sexual function for me. Cialis is a great vasodilator, good for keeping healthy blood pressure, heart healthy, and serves as a very mild anti-depressant as well.

I use 7.5mg because I use liquid cialis usually, although I do have a script for 5mg a day, it's cheaper to run the liquid for me though.

Before TRT my test dropped to 89 ng/dl. I felt like walking death. I ended a run of test and 8 weeks post cycle I went in for the bloodwork. I knew I wasn't coming back

 

[Britman]

Dale338 - what age are you now and what age did you start TRT?
what was you pre TRT TT natural levels? did PDE5 inhibitors stop working for you in terms of erection quality?

I get your points and agree but hCG & TRT is still risky with regards to fertility - besides getting hCG & TRT on the NHS in the UK is near impossible.

Demondosage - Was 89 TT your natural levels pre TRT or after a cycle of testosterone (not quite the same)?
Does cialis work just the same for you after 2-3 years? what about side effects?
I would have thought TRT would be enough vasodilation but yeah I guess if your happy taking Cialis also...

 

[virginian]

I used viagra frequently for 10 years starting at age 55 (long before I started TRT). Viagra was very effective for almost 10 years, but by age 65 viagra was no longer effective enough. I suspect the reduced effectiveness was caused by my aging rather than becoming immune to it.

For the last 10 years I have used trimix injections with total success (about 1000 injections). I started TRT 4 years ago, but continued to rely on trimix.

 

[Britman]

Virginian

Thanks for your input - you don't happen to know what your Testosterone levels (total and/or free) were at 55 years old and 65 do you?

I guess even of you were 300 TT @ 55-65 first thing AM thats far worse than being 300 TT at 30-40 years old

I'm not surprised Trimix works with complete success as its an injection right to the base of the penis (as I understand from google)...surely if on TRT you could also take a PDE5 inhibitor and get just as good a results without the extreme hassle of more injections to the penis of all places :0

 

[Dale338]

Dale338 - what age are you now and what age did you start TRT?
what was you pre TRT TT natural levels? did PDE5 inhibitors stop working for you in terms of erection quality?

I get your points and agree but hCG & TRT is still risky with regards to fertility - besides getting hCG & TRT on the NHS in the UK is near impossible.

Demondosage - Was 89 TT your natural levels pre TRT or after a cycle of testosterone (not quite the same)?
Does cialis work just the same for you after 2-3 years? what about side effects?
I would have thought TRT would be enough vasodilation but yeah I guess if your happy taking Cialis also...

I started TRT just three months ago and started by blasting. LOL. Now I'm running a true TRT dose. Still working on controlling my E and it's been hit or miss, but when I get it right, libido and erections come on HARD and I feel like I'm 16 again, when my E spikes, I'm a mess.

I started with a natural test number of maybe 480-500. But I was not feeling good. I got a lot of shit on here for starting with this numbers. I'm 49. I had been using clomid, mono therapy for close to three years and that drive my numbers from 500-sh to around 700, sometimes more. But the sides sucked and I was moody and my libido was low and this is when I started using PDE5's like CRAZY. They never really stopped working, I just had low libido and nothing much helped. Slow, weak erections and without direct stimulation, they died. A few days ago, when I had my estrogen right at 20-ish, I had sex three times, for over an hour each time in one day with my girl. I stayed hard from start to finish with no medications. It was crazy! Now my E has floated back up and I'm back having trouble again. But I am working to sort this out via lots of labs and I brought in Arimason.

 

[TheOldFart]

I'm 72 now and was 63 when diagnosed with low T. My doctor tested me because I had depression, low energy and ED, all that happened over a few months time. When tested, my level was about 300 (304 without looking at my records). I had tried Viagra and 50mg didn't help much. I never tried 100mg. I started using Testim gel and it took me about a year to get the dose and application regime right, but now my levels range between 550 and high 700s. I have no need for Viagra and have no problem with erections or sex. There is now a generic Testim gel and the cost is $49 per month, with my insurance paying nothing. Of course, it's through my insurance, so they have negotiated the price. I reach my levels on 1/2 tube, so it only costs me $25 a month.

I believe that T level is what is really important. Of course, I have no concern with fertility at my age. I don't know a lot about HCG, but that would be something to investigate if TRT is considered. When I'm at the above levels, my E2 runs between 25 and 30. I did manage to get my TT over 1200 with 1 tube of Testim a few years ago and my E2 shot up to over 60 and I didn't feel as well as I did at a lower TT level with "normal" E2.

 

[Britman]

I started TRT just three months ago and started by blasting. LOL. Now I'm running a true TRT dose. Still working on controlling my E and it's been hit or miss, but when I get it right, libido and erections come on HARD and I feel like I'm 16 again, when my E spikes, I'm a mess.

I started with a natural test number of maybe 480-500. But I was not feeling good. I got a lot of shit on here for starting with this numbers. I'm 49. I had been using clomid, mono therapy for close to three years and that drive my numbers from 500-sh to around 700, sometimes more. But the sides sucked and I was moody and my libido was low and this is when I started using PDE5's like CRAZY. They never really stopped working, I just had low libido and nothing much helped. Slow, weak erections and without direct stimulation, they died. A few days ago, when I had my estrogen right at 20-ish, I had sex three times, for over an hour each time in one day with my girl. I stayed hard from start to finish with no medications. It was crazy! Now my E has floated back up and I'm back having trouble again. But I am working to sort this out via lots of labs and I brought in Arimason.

Dale338

I must admit it does seem odd that with TT around 500 ish and for you to use cialis (suppose to drive up free testosterone a bit too) you had trouble getting strong erections but I don't not believe you - I don't know about your other lifestyle factors (health, whether you were avid porn user etc lol). I found that when cialis works I was more horny - probably the spontaneous erections are the reason for that as no guy wants to 'waste' a good hard on

How long were you using PDE5 inhibitors on their own? (after using clomid for nearly 3 years)

Also how on earth did you know that your e2 was at 2ish the night you had sex 3 times with the gf? (unless you just happened to have your routine testing that day). I realise you mentioned 'lots of labs' - this will be at much time and expense I assume. Here in the UK just getting TT checked privately can cost around £50 and free testosterone another £100 (very expensive)

Whats your TRT regime now? I'm sure I don't need to point out the less the frequency of the T injections the greater the variability and also the higher the dosage of hCG will drive up e2.

From all the posts I have read the most successful TRT regime seems to be IM injections every week to get TT up top 700ish and add in a small dosage of hCG say 200-250 every 3 days tops this up a bit and keeps the testicles ticking over with probably other by products of hormones produced