Advice needed for a first cycle. Thanks.

[newuser121]

Hi guys, this post is to ask for advice on a planned cycle i am going to do. Please feel free to comment on/recommend changes to the proposed cycle. (could you also comment on sites i am considering buying from). Thanks in advance.

A bit about myself first: i am 20 years old and i am 5'11 and weigh 96kg (after losing about 5kg in the last 3 months). I don't know what my bfp is but I'm guessing I'm around 15-20%. (i know i shouldn't be using test at this age but I've decided i want to so please just help me to make it as safe as possible for me).

I think i am predisposed to male pattern baldness which is why i am keen to use finasteride. I think i am also likely to suffer acne so i may keep roaccutane on hand at very small doses.

Cycle: (unsure whether to do a 6 or 8 week cycle)

o Testosterone propionate

- 100mg eod week 1 to 6/8

o Finasteride

- Tablet ed week 1 to 6/8
- Tablet ed week 6/8 to 10/12

o Nizoral 2% shampoo

o Exemestane (aromasin)

- 12.5 mg eod week 1 to 6/8
- 12.5 mg e4d week 6/8 to 10/12

o Tamoxifen (nolva)

(precautionary to stop gyno)

- 20 mg eod week 1 to 6/8
- 20 mg e4d week 6/8 to 10/12

o HCG

- 500 iu twice a week last four weeks of cycle
- 500 iu ed during four weeks of pct

 

[Boilermech]

Do not run the HCG during PCT.
You need a real PCT. I agree you are to young. I also am no dummy and realize you are going to do what you want. Next thing is shave your head. If your going to go down this road and you are destined to go bald anyway then why fight it. Get it over with or stay away from AAS all together.
Didn't see anything about what brand your looking into buying so my suggestion there is just do your research on the different labs and suppliers.
Good luck
BM

 

[mercury]

you do not run nolva and aromasin together

leave nolva for PCT + clomid

 

[mkulltra58]

Scrap this whole cycle plan. There are too many glaring errors for anyone's first cycle. Not to mention your age and stats. At your age, you need to build a foundation naturally. Get to your current weight with 10% bf before you consider cycling. At your age it should be pretty easy. Eat right and train hard. I wouldn't touch steriods at your age unless someone was paying me to compete. If you decide to do it anyway, please stop and research more before you cause serious damage to your body.

Btw, if you run prop on your first cycle, you will probably quit after two weeks anyway. But that's just one of the problems in this cycle plan.

Please don't be offended. You asked for my opinion and I gave it honestly.

 

[ironwill1951]

I am happy to see your running prop with the pinning every other day , that pinning schedule and the pain from the prop maybe you will quit before you do to much serious damage . but then you might make your life a lot easier at twenty you might not be able to have sex so that's a big head ache you don't have to deal with, and hell the world has enough people with a horrible sperm count you surely do not have to have kids . hell you have a great plan just live by yourself and go to the gym.

 

[NotNattyNate]

run test e 250 mg 2x a week. For 10 weeks. That is your first cycle. Wait 2 weeks, use nolva an clomid for pct. If you are going to go bald, you're going to go bald. Don't waste your time trying to fight it. I started juicin, at 20 yrs old. I wouldn't recommend it. However i had lifted for 7 years at that point and i was 220 lbs decenly lean. don't short your natty gains, most likely once you come off the sauce for an extended time. You will revert back to where you were before you juiced.

 

[newuser121]

Scrap this whole cycle plan. There are too many glaring errors for anyone's first cycle. Not to mention your age and stats. At your age, you need to build a foundation naturally. Get to your current weight with 10% bf before you consider cycling. At your age it should be pretty easy. Eat right and train hard. I wouldn't touch steriods at your age unless someone was paying me to compete. If you decide to do it anyway, please stop and research more before you cause serious damage to your body.

Btw, if you run prop on your first cycle, you will probably quit after two weeks anyway. But that's just one of the problems in this cycle plan.

Please don't be offended. You asked for my opinion and I gave it honestly.

I appreciate the feedback. I am here to learn and will not take any offence. If i am honest i thought the research i had done was half decent and that this was a decent proposed first cycle. Obviously i am mistaken.

Could i ask what, in your opinion, the glaring errors are? (apart from my 'foundation') I'm not going to start this cycle until i am confident that i won't be causing myself harm as i personally believe that you can use PED's safely (although i obviously haven't figured out how exactly to do this yet).

 

[newuser121]

you do not run nolva and aromasin together

leave nolva for PCT + clomid

Could i ask why you wouldn't run nolva and aromasin together?

from my understanding nolva acts a competitive inhibitor to oestrogen preventing it from binding to the receptor sites found in breast tissue. However, in turn this raises bodily oestrogen.

Aromasin on the other hand acts as a suicide inhibitor to preventing the conversion of an androgen to oestrogen thus reducing bodily oestrogen and thus reducing the chance of oestrogen binding to breast tissue (as well as keep bodily oestrogen down which has other benefits).

(Im not trying to sound like a smart ass, I'm just genuinely interested to learn from those who have a greater knowledge on the subject than myself so i will be inquisitive and ask lots of q's). Cheers in advance for the reply.

 

[newuser121]

Do not run the HCG during PCT.
You need a real PCT. I agree you are to young. I also am no dummy and realize you are going to do what you want. Next thing is shave your head. If your going to go down this road and you are destined to go bald anyway then why fight it. Get it over with or stay away from AAS all together.
Didn't see anything about what brand your looking into buying so my suggestion there is just do your research on the different labs and suppliers.
Good luck
BM

Ok cheers for the reply. Im guessing you still recommend HCG on cycle though?

My proposed PCT is exemestane and tamoxifen. However, that may change as a result of some of the feedback I'm getting from others...

 

[mkulltra58]

I appreciate the feedback. I am here to learn and will not take any offence. If i am honest i thought the research i had done was half decent and that this was a decent proposed first cycle. Obviously i am mistaken.

Could i ask what, in your opinion, the glaring errors are? (apart from my 'foundation') I'm not going to start this cycle until i am confident that i won't be causing myself harm as i personally believe that you can use PED's safely (although i obviously haven't figured out how exactly to do this yet).

1. Running Test Prop on your first cycle.
2. Running Test for only 6 weeks
3. Do you know any of the side effects of Finasteride? Running it when it might not be necessary can cause problems.
4. Running Nolva and Asin together for your first cycle. You don't even know how your body reacts to Test yet. Your body needs estrogen. Just use Asin at moderate dose to start.
5. Using Hcg during PCT
6. PCT plan sucks.

This is why I say you need to go back and do more research. You found my thread which is a good start. When you do decide to finally cycle, please stick to something like I laid out in that thread. I spent all that time writing it to try to prevent people like yourself from doing damage to their bodies that they might not recover from.

 

[RodgerThat]

First Cycle Guide ...Start Here!!! | MESO-Rx Forum

Hope you don't mind @mkulltra58 I figured this covers literally everything he needs to know and even though it's on the front page I think this will make it more accessible for him. Happy readings bud but just so you are aware this is a great guide but by reading it doesn't mean you are ready there are lots and lots upon tons of links I would prefer you to read first and also would like you to reconsider AAS at a young age as I made the mistake of starting too early.

 

[mkulltra58]

First Cycle Guide ...Start Here!!! | MESO-Rx Forum

Hope you don't mind @mkulltra58 I figured this covers literally everything he needs to know and even though it's on the front page I think this will make it more accessible for him. Happy readings bud but just so you are aware this is a great guide but by reading it doesn't mean you are ready there are lots and lots upon tons of links I would prefer you to read first and also would like you to reconsider AAS at a young age as I made the mistake of starting too early.

He actually posted on that thread asking me to come here and give my opinion on his cycle. He must have read my thread after posting this cycle plan though. And I don't mind at all. I hope more people link to that post for threads like these.

 

[RodgerThat]

He actually posted on that thread asking me to come here and give my opinion on his cycle. He must have read my thread after posting this cycle plan though. And I don't mind at all. I hope more people link to that post for threads like these.

Sorry didn't reread it, I've actually got that link in a note on my phone it's so good, tired of laying out cycle after cycle so from now on in just using the link on every "first cycle advice/need help" thread.

 

[newuser121]

1. Running Test Prop on your first cycle.
2. Running Test for only 6 weeks
3. Do you know any of the side effects of Finasteride? Running it when it might not be necessary can cause problems.
4. Running Nolva and Asin together for your first cycle. You don't even know how your body reacts to Test yet. Your body needs estrogen. Just use Asin at moderate dose to start.
5. Using Hcg during PCT
6. PCT plan sucks.

This is why I say you need to go back and do more research. You found my thread which is a good start. When you do decide to finally cycle, please stick to something like I laid out in that thread. I spent all that time writing it to try to prevent people like yourself from doing damage to their bodies that they might not recover from.

I have a few questions for you if thats ok.

for point 4 you say it is unnecessary to run Nolva and Asin together. Could i ask why?

from my understanding nolva acts a competitive inhibitor to oestrogen preventing it from binding to the receptor sites found in breast tissue. However, in turn this raises bodily oestrogen.

Aromasin on the other hand acts as a suicide inhibitor to preventing the conversion of an androgen to oestrogen thus reducing bodily oestrogen and thus reducing the chance of oestrogen binding to breast tissue (as well as keep bodily oestrogen down which has other benefits).

So my question is surely asin would only act as a preventive measure to prevent oestrogen binding to receptor sites on breast tissue and shouldn't really matter? it won't reduce bodily oestrogen, this is what nolva does. If i have it why not use it? what other detrimental affect would it have?

for point 6 you say my PCT plan sucks. Again can i ask why?

How does the action of clomid differ from Asin?

from the research i have done it inhibits oestrogen receptors in the hypothalamus, inhibiting negative feedback of oestrogen on gonadotropin release. So, it prevents the inhibition of release of LH and hCG. LH stimulates the leydig cells of the testes to produce test.

Whereas I'm guessing Asin doesn't have this affect and purely prevents he conversion of an androgen to oestrogen.

Thus my final question is would it not be beneficial to run both if this is correct? as too much oestrogen in males is obvious negative. (or possibly even run all three with regard to nolva, Asin and Clomid).

(p.s. im not trying to be an ass. I am genuinely interested in the science behind what is happening as i want to make it as safe for myself as possible. I know one of your concerns is that there is not point running drugs if you don't need them, but just because something doesn't have external affects e.g. gyno, it can have internal ones and maybe being over cautious could be a good thing? or if you feel its not and it is simply just counter productive please explain. I am here to learn from those who know more than i do. Thanks again.)

 

[mkulltra58]

Let me put it this way to make it easier to understand...

One of the side effects of anti-depressants is suicidal thoughts. Knowing that, do you lock yourself in a padded room when you start taking them?

Nolva should be used as last resort on cycle if you are having gyno problems. You don't start treating side effects before you get them. Adex or asin is used by some before developing gyno sides as a preventative measure. Personally, I know I get gyno issues so I take it right away when I start a cycle.

As for pct, you are trying to help your body recover it's natural test production. Clomid and nolva help increase your LH and FSH to jump start your production, as I understand it. Taking asin during pct shouldn't be necessary with Clomd and Nolva because you won't have high estrogen.