Advice needed on cutting workout

[RockRambo]

Stats – 75 kgs, 15-16% body fat, running a calorie deficit of 400 – 500 and 166 gm P, 221 gm C and 57 gm fat

Goals – To cut down below 10% body fat in 10-11 weeks

Cardio is performed at moderate intensity which is defined as when it sweats but the breathing is still under control (no panting, etc.), however, the intensity still looks moderately hard

Monday – Chest , Back and Shoulders (heavy sets supersets), Abdominals, Moderate Intensity Cardio for 30 mins
5 sets and reps are 8, 6, 5, 5, 3 to 4. No rest b/w supersets and 1 min rest between sets
1. Flat Bench Press superset w/ Chest Flyes
2. T – bar rows superset w/ High Bench Rows
3. Clean and Press superset w/ Lateral Raises
4. Cable crunches – 5 sets of 10-12 reps
5. Half-situps – 5 sets of 8 reps
6. Leg raises – 5 sets of 6-8 reps
7. Concemetric Double Up – 5 sets of 5-6 reps
8. Stairmaster – 15 mins
9. Elliptical – 10 mins
10. Treadmill – 5 mins

Tuesday – Biceps, Triceps and Forearms (tri-sets), Moderate Intensity Cardio for 45 mins
5 sets and reps are 5 on each set. No rest within a tri-set and 45 sec rest between tri-sets
1. Body Drag , Supine Bench Dumbbell curl , Elbows in barbell curl
2. Elbows in pushdowns, Elbows out triceps pressdowns and Dumbbell kick back
3. Forearm barbell curl (2 sets of 10 reps),
4. Reverse Body Drag (4 sets of three motions – low to middle, middle to the neck and low to the neck)
5. Zottman Curl – 4 sets of 12 reps
6. Stairmaster – 20 mins
7. Elliptical – 15 mins
8. Treadmill – 10 mins

Wednesday – Legs and Abdominals, Moderate Intensity Cardio for 30 mins4 sets and reps are 10, 8, 6, 15. 45 sec rest between sets
1. Back Squats
2. 45 degree Leg Press
3. Deadlift
4. Leg Extension
5. Leg Curl
6. Calves (Standing) - 5 sets of 10 reps
7. Calves (Seated) - 5 sets of 10 reps
8. Cable crunches – 5 sets of 10-12 reps
9. Half-situps – 5 sets of 8 reps
10. Leg raises – 5 sets of 6-8 reps
11. Concemetric Double Up – 5 sets of 5-6 reps
12. Boxing w/ gloves on a punching bag – 30 mins (jabs, cross punches, etc.) with some rest intervals in between


Thursday – Chest , Back and Shoulders, Moderate Intensity Cardio for 30 mins
4 sets and reps are 10, 8, 6, 15. 45 sec rest between sets
1. Incline Bench Dumbbell Press
2. Body Weight Dips ( 5 sets of 8 reps)
3. Decline Bench Dumbbell Flyes
4. Isometric machine Rowing
5. Seated Rowing
6. HyperExtension (5 sets of 10 reps)
7. Front and Back Press
8. Arnold Press
9. Bent over Raise
10. Boxing w/ gloves on a punching bag – 30 mins (jabs, cross punches, etc.) with some rest intervals in between

Friday – Biceps, Triceps and Forearms (tri-sets), Abdominals, Moderate Intensity Cardio for 30 mins
5 sets and reps are 5 on each set. No rest within a tri-set and 45 sec rest between tri-sets
1. Body Drag , Elbows in barbell curl, Preacher Curl (using 2 burns at the higher end on each rep and 6 burns on the last rep)
2. Skull Crusher, Close Grip Bench Press and Barbell pressing to the chest and then behind the head in a continuous motion
3. Forearm barbell curl (2 sets of 10 reps),
4. Reverse Body Drag (4 sets of three motions – low to middle, middle to the neck and low to the neck)
5. Zottman Curl – 4 sets of 12 reps
6. Cable crunches – 5 sets of 10-12 reps
7. Half-situps – 5 sets of 8 reps
8. Leg raises – 5 sets of 6-8 reps
9. Concemetric Double Up – 5 sets of 5-6 reps
10. Boxing w/ gloves on a punching bag – 30 mins (jabs, cross punches, etc.) with some rest intervals in between

Saturday – Legs
One Down the rack dropset for each exercise and 1 min rest between each exercise
1. Back Squats
2. 45 degree Leg Press
3. Deadlift
4. Leg Extension
5. Leg Curl
6. Calves (Standing) - 5 sets of 10 reps
7. Calves (Seated) - 5 sets of 10 reps

Does this look too much of a work? Can I expect to overtrain or lose muscle w/ this amount of work?

 

[skywalk]

if you want to cut, then why are you lifting so heavy and doing so few reps?

your workout looks way too complicated. I got my bf down to single digits doing light compound movements at my 12-15RM. rows, squats, deadlifts, benching, mil press, etc.

just go for the pump and once you're pumped, move on to the next bodypart.

and to burn more calories, in addition to your daily cardio, I would do full-body modified HST style training hitting the entire body 3 times per week with compound movements for high reps.

 

[RockRambo]

if you want to cut, then why are you lifting so heavy and doing so few reps?

your workout looks way too complicated. I got my bf down to single digits doing light compound movements at my 12-15RM. rows, squats, deadlifts, benching, mil press, etc.

just go for the pump and once you're pumped, move on to the next bodypart.

and to burn more calories, in addition to your daily cardio, I would do full-body modified HST style training hitting the entire body 3 times per week with compound movements for high reps.

as they say, that lifting heavy will keep the muscle mass intact. What has helped it to grow will help it to sustain as well. Isn't that true? What you're suggesting is pick three days for all compound movements and aim for 12-15 reps going for the pump, one exercise after the other? so 4 sets of 12 reps on each of the compound movements w/ minimum rest should be incorporated? And i should aim for the workout to be taxing enough that i am panting for breath throughout, right?

Also, I have read a lot about the HIIT and LISS cardio debate that If i want to incorporate the 'low' intensity cardio and to preserve the muscle mass, I should not exceed 70% heart rate. However, most of the machines predict inaccurately ( i mean the heart rates, IMHO). So, is the parameter of doing it just below panting for breath, to prevent muscle loss, correct?

 

[TheGuy85]

If I am dropping weight I lift heavy with low reps (compound lifts) and low volume (less sets) to try to hold onto as much strength as possible while not "overreaching" or "overtraining" due to lack of recovery from caloric deficit. 400-500 calories a day with all that work throughout the week is going to hurt and you will probably feel like shit and get weaker. That's way too much work IMO. Look for a strength workout with 3-4 days of lifting and more compound lifting without all the isolation shit.

500-600 Calories a day even with your cardio routine alone is going to be brutal. I dropped to 1200-1600 calories a day and did burpees and heavy bag work (like 3x a week maybe 4) for like 4 weeks or less and dropped 10 lbs. I lost some strength felt pretty shitty. I also was working out, outside during the summer so that made it even rougher.

I don't know extreme weight loss always seems to yield negative results, yeah you lost weight and body fat but you also lost a lot of muscle mass and strength which IMO is harder to gain than it is to lose weight. Maybe you should consider a more conservative approach that helps drop body fat over the course of a few months. That weight comes back really quick once you pick up eating again. Only time I would consider a dramatic weight loss plan would be to drop back down for a weigh in for competition.

I've tried "cutting" while running gear and I feel hypoglycemic after working out and need to smash carbs. My whole body will get weak and shaky. I always end up gaining weight on cycle but if I do it right I will drop down or come back near the same weight I started with less BF and more muscle mass. This usually comes from water retention, fake weight, and if I upped my AI dose it might counter the extreme weight gain I notice during first week of running test prop. If I started running AI prior to starting cycle this might prevent the weight gain as well. But about a week in I will gain 6 lbs, and by week 2 I lose 3 lbs of it. Water.

 

[TheGuy85]

I have found separating my weightlifting from cardio to be more beneficial. All the low rest, super set stuff never did shit for me and I didn't notice huge amounts of weight loss. What did happen is I missed reps and became weaker. So now I lift heavier with low rep and more sets (sometimes less sets depending on where I am at in my training). After lifting I do about a half hour of heavy bag work. 3-5 minute rounds with 3 minute rests and I will go anywhere from 5 to 10 rounds (rarely ever go 8-10 because weightlifting if taxing). First round I throw jabs and/or double jabs for 3-5 mins. 2nd round 3-5 min of jab + cross 3rd round 3-5 min of jab, cross, left hook. 4th round 3-5 min of jab, cross, left hook, right uppercut. 6th round 3-5 min of either picking punches with head movement or I move in close to punch. At some point I will just go into a round of a flurry of combination punches.

 

[RockRambo]

If I am dropping weight I lift heavy with low reps (compound lifts) and low volume (less sets) to try to hold onto as much strength as possible while not "overreaching" or "overtraining" due to lack of recovery from caloric deficit. 400-500 calories a day with all that work throughout the week is going to hurt and you will probably feel like shit and get weaker. That's way too much work IMO. Look for a strength workout with 3-4 days of lifting and more compound lifting without all the isolation shit.

500-600 Calories a day even with your cardio routine alone is going to be brutal. I dropped to 1200-1600 calories a day and did burpees and heavy bag work (like 3x a week maybe 4) for like 4 weeks or less and dropped 10 lbs. I lost some strength felt pretty shitty. I also was working out, outside during the summer so that made it even rougher.

I don't know extreme weight loss always seems to yield negative results, yeah you lost weight and body fat but you also lost a lot of muscle mass and strength which IMO is harder to gain than it is to lose weight. Maybe you should consider a more conservative approach that helps drop body fat over the course of a few months. That weight comes back really quick once you pick up eating again. Only time I would consider a dramatic weight loss plan would be to drop back down for a weigh in for competition.

I've tried "cutting" while running gear and I feel hypoglycemic after working out and need to smash carbs. My whole body will get weak and shaky. I always end up gaining weight on cycle but if I do it right I will drop down or come back near the same weight I started with less BF and more muscle mass. This usually comes from water retention, fake weight, and if I upped my AI dose it might counter the extreme weight gain I notice during first week of running test prop. If I started running AI prior to starting cycle this might prevent the weight gain as well. But about a week in I will gain 6 lbs, and by week 2 I lose 3 lbs of it. Water.

Thanks for sharing brother. Even I aim for not more than 1 kg loss per week. Even on this deficit, my weight training has been good as I am still lifting the same weights I used to when I was on a major calorie up. This means, my muscle mass is still intact. I am just apprehensive of cardio. I am sure, it will add more fuel to the fire but don't want to end up losing the hard earned muscle. What I will do is, try this for one-two days and then see whether I feel really tired, etc. If recovery is a problem I will definitely cut the amount of cardio listed here. I will try skywalk's suggestion as well.
However, on the contrary, the supersets/ tri-sets/ little rest between sets have worked great for me (amount of work done per unit time maximized) and I get a great pump training like that.
So, you mean, when on cycle, an AI really helps to manage the water weight. I know it is related to aromatization but what I think is bloating is mostly related to food. Eat big and you might be bloated on cycle (w/ or w/o an AI ). Is that incorrect?

 

[TheGuy85]

Could be. But even drinking a lot of fluids bloats you easily. I don't have to eat big and still bloat bad on cycle till AI kicks in. Though I am sure eating certain foods contributes to bloating as I have noticed bloating even off cycle. But 6 lbs in less than a week is considerable water gain. But like I said I will lose 3 lbs of it following week when AI kicks in I assume. I have been doing what I guess bodybuilders call recomp cycles. I will drop back down close to my weight b4 I started cycle with less body fat and more muscle mass. I have to maintain a certain weight until I am ready to jump into another class and make that 15 lb jump maybe in another year or so.

 

[TheGuy85]

I'm not a bodybuilder and I am not a fan of high rep work sets and tons of isolation exercises. I have personally found them ineffective. But I was doing bodybuilding workouts way b4 I ran gear. Never worked for me natty lifting so why bother with them on gear.

 

[RockRambo]

Could be. But even drinking a lot of fluids bloats you easily. I don't have to eat big and still bloat bad on cycle till AI kicks in. Though I am sure eating certain foods contributes to bloating as I have noticed bloating even off cycle. But 6 lbs in less than a week is considerable water gain. But like I said I will lose 3 lbs of it following week when AI kicks in I assume. I have been doing what I guess bodybuilders call recomp cycles. I will drop back down close to my weight b4 I started cycle with less body fat and more muscle mass. I have to maintain a certain weight until I am ready to jump into another class and make that 15 lb jump maybe in another year or so.

So you mean you use AI throughout the cycle until PCT and running at like 0.25 or 0.5 mg EOD when it is Arimidex? That's sufficient to prevent water gain? Also, when on cycle, do you gradually increase your calories as well? (discounting the water and fat gain?). For example, a 500 above maintenance to start with and then increase it according to the new weight but discounted by fat and water?

 

[TheGuy85]

I run aromasin ED at 10mg on cycle and then taper down on it throughout pct while talking toremifene. I have found running aromasin and torem together for pct to help maintain gains. I have only tried this for 1 cycle so far though.

I run test prop and tren ace and eventually my caloric intake increases or I start feeling like I am having low blood sugar. If I don't consume enough carbs I have attacks where my body feels weak and I feel shaky , sometimes vision gets a little funny and I feel like eating candy.

I pretty much start eating more within 3 days but I run short esters. But the amount I end up eating accounts for calories for maintenance. I always end up weighing in close to, less than, or slightly more than when I started the cycle though. I don't run long cycles either. I would never run a cycle over 8 weeks.

You figure I am running 70-100mg test prop and 70mg tren ace ED so I end up eating like a horse at some point and my body lets me know when. I still don't go crazy eating, not enough to gain real weight when I come off though. So I would have to pack in around I don't know over 3500 calories or much more versus 3000 ED while on cycle. I rarely count calories anymore unless I am in a dire need to drop weight.

I do a lot of cardio during the summer, so on top of heavy bag work, I usually do sprints and burpees, and if I am running gear I will end up having to eat a lot more
calories or I will end up looking sickly. I will probably drop the tren during summer cycling too, as it is hard to get through 6 rounds on the heavy bag because it gets hard to breathe. So I may just due test cycles.

 

[dper726]

Cutting is no rocket science its simply running at a calorie deficit. If you could sustain such, you will have success. And you seem to have an idea about it. Your workouts seem heavy loaded. I wouldn't personally be able to do such for 10 weeks or so before hitting physical and mental exhaustion by about a month and a half in. But that is me, I guess we all have different drives.

Remember workouts themselves serve as HIIT if you are doing it correctly. To do such I would increase the sets in your routine heavily more then what they are. Ill stick to the 12-16 range. Time it accordingly and boom you'll have HIIT in the making while preserving your mass. Add cardio, ill personally have 15-20 minutes HIIT stair master or bike are my preferences.

Again I think with your routine you are heavily overtraining. In my opinion arms don't need twice a day training, unless its your most lagging muscle group, which typically aren't for most. You'll hit arms plenty secondary in arms, shoulders, back. You think about it and you'll be doing arms 3-4 times a week. Gotta be careful with legs too, remember cardio itself is a leg exercise. But of course you should also understand there will be muscle mass loss in the process of a cut.

This is what has worked for me.

 

[RockRambo]

Cutting is no rocket science its simply running at a calorie deficit. If you could sustain such, you will have success. And you seem to have an idea about it. Your workouts seem heavy loaded. I wouldn't personally be able to do such for 10 weeks or so before hitting physical and mental exhaustion by about a month and a half in. But that is me, I guess we all have different drives.

Remember workouts themselves serve as HIIT if you are doing it correctly. To do such I would increase the sets in your routine heavily more then what they are. Ill stick to the 12-16 range. Time it accordingly and boom you'll have HIIT in the making while preserving your mass. Add cardio, ill personally have 15-20 minutes HIIT stair master or bike are my preferences.

Again I think with your routine you are heavily overtraining. In my opinion arms don't need twice a day training, unless its your most lagging muscle group, which typically aren't for most. You'll hit arms plenty secondary in arms, shoulders, back. You think about it and you'll be doing arms 3-4 times a week. Gotta be careful with legs too, remember cardio itself is a leg exercise. But of course you should also understand there will be muscle mass loss in the process of a cut.

This is what has worked for me.

Thanks a lot for chiming in !! Ok, there was someone who told me that it's not possible to lose 6 %points of fat in 10-11 weeks w/o AAS or a strong cutting agent. His reasoning was that, even if I lose 1 lb per week, 50% of it will be muscle mass (that too optimisitcally stated). I somewhat disagree with this. I think, if I maintain a 1-2lbs per week goal for 10 weeks and lose 11-12 lbs, I will definitely lose muscle mass but not as much as 5-6lbs. Is that a fair enough assumption? I strongly believe that AAS/ any other cutting agent only 'aid' in the process. The primary variables are the diet and the training. So, even if I had put in AAS/ cutting agents, I wouldn't get magical results , like getting ripped in 7-8 weeks !! It would still boil down to the primary variables.

 

[TheGuy85]

AAS definitely will help hold onto muscle mass and strength while trying to cut. You will probably even gain muscle and strength despite the caloric deficiency. I have issues going into caloric deficiencies while on cycle and sometimes feel like my blood sugar is low. This usually happens after strenuous workouts and when I don't eat enough. On a high enough dose of Tren it will even happen on like a rest day if I don't eat enough, frequently enough. I have seen other people experience this same issue. But regardless, a short cycle of short acting esters and a mean cardio routine with weightlifting will help you keep muscle mass and strength and reduce body fat. I usually don't notice the full fat loss effects until PCT though. This last cycle I actually ended up weighing a pound less than when i started, this was intentional, and I didn't have to go crazy dieting (didn't "diet" at all, just didn't stuff my face despite how hungry I felt). I came back looking thinner and more muscular. The goal is to increase muscle mass and strength or at least maintain both while maintaining same body weight after cycle. Depends on your goals, you don't necessarily have to drop weight to drop body fat, unless you have to weigh in at a certain weight.

 

[RockRambo]

AAS definitely will help hold onto muscle mass and strength while trying to cut. You will probably even gain muscle and strength despite the caloric deficiency. I have issues going into caloric deficiencies while on cycle and sometimes feel like my blood sugar is low. This usually happens after strenuous workouts and when I don't eat enough. On a high enough dose of Tren it will even happen on like a rest day if I don't eat enough, frequently enough. I have seen other people experience this same issue. But regardless, a short cycle of short acting esters and a mean cardio routine with weightlifting will help you keep muscle mass and strength and reduce body fat. I usually don't notice the full fat loss effects until PCT though. This last cycle I actually ended up weighing a pound less than when i started, this was intentional, and I didn't have to go crazy dieting (didn't "diet" at all, just didn't stuff my face despite how hungry I felt). I came back looking thinner and more muscular. The goal is to increase muscle mass and strength or at least maintain both while maintaining same body weight after cycle. Depends on your goals, you don't necessarily have to drop weight to drop body fat, unless you have to weigh in at a certain weight.

That'ts true provided you're gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time. so, if one is not gaining muscle (on a calorie deficit and no AAS) but losing fat, one must lose weight to see the results. I have heard about the idea of re-comping but I don't think I am experienced enough to do it successfully.

 

[dnoyez]

Go to this link.. ????? ?? ??????????? ????? - ?????????? - ???????? ?????

on that page in that thread you will scroll down,when you get to this book...

Get Jacked... FAST! by Christian Thibaudeau


click on the download link and get the book.
The eating phases and training phases are ace and works ...cant say I even like ct's tnation sham but that book is a gem.
Follow the book to a t. If you do you will be peeled to shreds in 12 weeks.

 

[RockRambo]

Go to this link.. ????? ?? ??????????? ????? - ?????????? - ???????? ?????

on that page in that thread you will scroll down,when you get to this book...

Get Jacked... FAST! by Christian Thibaudeau


click on the download link and get the book.
The eating phases and training phases are ace and works ...cant say I even like ct's tnation sham but that book is a gem.
Follow the book to a t. If you do you will be peeled to shreds in 12 weeks.

Thanks dnoyez. I have perused the book. I think I can get started on the training information instantaneously. For the diet, I make a plan...Also, is it important to eat green veggies with each meal (kinda tough to source it with every meal)..

 

[RockRambo]

Go to this link.. ????? ?? ??????????? ????? - ?????????? - ???????? ?????

on that page in that thread you will scroll down,when you get to this book...

Get Jacked... FAST! by Christian Thibaudeau


click on the download link and get the book.
The eating phases and training phases are ace and works ...cant say I even like ct's tnation sham but that book is a gem.
Follow the book to a t. If you do you will be peeled to shreds in 12 weeks.

I just did a quick calculation of the recommended diet..The protein comes out to be 504 gm?1 portion tuna is 75 gms. He recommends 3/4 portions.. so it is like at least 2000 calories from tuna protein only..then you add dairy and efa's.. is this a 3000 calorie meal plan for cutting?

 

[dnoyez]

I just did a quick calculation of the recommended diet..The protein comes out to be 504 gm?1 portion tuna is 75 gms. He recommends 3/4 portions.. so it is like at least 2000 calories from tuna protein only..then you add dairy and efa's.. is this a 3000 calorie meal plan for cutting?

pm'd

 

[TheGuy85]

If you really want to drop weight just look up velocity diet.

http://www.rearickstrength.com/2011/05/my-28-day-experiment-with-velocity-diet.html?m=1

You don't have to buy into their supplement recommendations but I read dan johns attempt at it in his book and he wasn't pushing supplements, just stated the basics and what you use (not a particular supplement companies products). He reported great results. I forget the name of the book I have it somewhere.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_new_vdiet_test_drive