Advice Regarding Testosterone Cypionate and Long term Usage

FLIGHT777

New Member
First post here,

I'm going to give stats to give clarity to my exact situation, hoping that this request for advice helps not only myself but others in a similar situation.


45 year old male 6'8" 395. Was dx'd back in 2000 with advanced degenerative disc disease, been on narcotics for pain management for now 15 years. Was on one med intake for almost 12 of those 15 and opioid rotation was not done, causing hypoglycemic reactions (low blood sugar) as a result. They put me on a stronger med intake (morphine sulphate IR) that is a continual ongoing treatment that will go years forward to deal with the skeletal issues I have.

As time moved on, and with my research, found Low T present in the body. Follow up brought awareness to my HCP and instantly put me in treatment for data proving long term pain management blocks receptors where test links up, but pain meds were blocking the path, thus lowering test levels.

Started off with minimal 1x a month, 2x month, to 3x a month and now I self administer without visits, getting my costs down to $11.70 per injection.

Was told to administer 2x a month, but went on my own agenda to do 1ml a week. Far better results. As of this week, I'm now .5 twice a week.

Started upper body exercises 10 days ago with enormous results, even though I've felt like building body mass since I first started taking this product. But as a result of this increased strength there's been problems along the way. Retore left rotator cuff, tore right rotator cuff for first time in the last 9 months due to work related injuries, not exercise. 2 Cort injections, one in each shoulder. When I started my program about 2 weeks ago the left favored arm is actually my weakest, but immediately I'm getting both shoulders synchronized in equal strength.

Overweight is my current status, lots of stomach that needs to shrink. Arms are well built, shoulders and back lack proper discipline in strength training but I'm willing to do whatever needed. Goal here is through diet and exercise with cardio once I take fat mass and do the conversion in chest. Going after high protein, low sugar discipline and water intake.

Lots of muscle cramping in body if I don't keep hydration as top priority. Staying away from high sodium drinks or foods as water retention is present with taking Test C. Also had issue recently with high BP (217/163) at a relaxed state which put the sirens on and got put on bp meds for first time ever in 45 years.

Can't go into a solid red meat diet for protein because of history of gout/uric acid levels. Extreme muscle spasms around the spine I reluctantly use low doses of muscle relaxers, and only at a last resort. Don't like the experience of them.

The goal in asking the community for advice here:

I've got one chance left in my 40's to build an upper body, lean out. I'll be on Test C indefinitely through Dr's orders. Get tested every 3 months, but sometimes every 6. On my current regimen I plan on down dosing to make sure no overly high test results become of it's use.

The most important statement I can make for myself here is that I do NOT want to risk any more injuries to the ligaments/joints of my body as I've got almost 30 years pulling wrenches/extreme lifting as a master plumber. I'm going for burnout reps, low impact weight at first but the body is responding quickly to pack the weight on to make it count. No other methods of enhancement by injection or pill in my current program.

A little history,

Used to weightlift back when I was 29. Used various steroid related products but were always GNC vita paks, creatine supplements, something tied to DDT or DHT (not sure of abbrev) and had great results.

But this time around I can tell I have strength in a different way now, enormous strength with fast results already visible. I'm building for the long haul, redesigning my stature/physique to take myself into my 50's/60's without having an excessive BMI. I do NOT want to dare touch creatine supplements now after 15 years subjective damage to my aging kidneys... not worth it at this point.

Given that I'm on this product *test C* for an indefinite period of time, should I follow the readings on this forum of 'cycling' this treatment? Of course if a blood test reveals low, they'll prescribe more. If high, they'll reduce my amounts either by product prescribed or by reducing amount per intake.

My long term goal is to build the largest chest/shoulders/back with less attention to legs. Already have good solid mass in those areas. Just trying to give myself one last chance to get what I had when I was 29 and I'm actually already there if the fat mass is gone. It wears on me like two separate skins.

Hope the full disclosure helps. I'm dead serious in my program and the physique will appear in the coming months, just need some helpful guidance if those of you are willing.
 
Hey Man. Sounds like you have a lot going on. Hope you feel better soon. If you are getting bloodwork every 3 months, I would just take your prescribed dose of Test. Will be slower, but you will see results. Test C half life is pretty long, so you would have to run very short cycles to get bloodwork every 3 months. Also, with your medical conditions... I would be concerned to increase over what is prescribed. AAS increases BP, & your BP was recently at a near fatal level. I would follow doctors orders exactly right now. Lose the weight. Lower the BP. Get diet in order, & then reconsider any tweaking of what is prescribed. Safety is number one. Good luck
 
I'm also on pain med for my back forever. Longest I've been on is 2 years, but this time the Dr. says there's nothing else to do but to keep taking med.
Are you saying this med blocks Test to the receptors?
Also, staying on this med can cause permanent low blood sugar?
Please explain, and tell me where you got this info from, cuz I'm very curious now. I had never heard any of this.
 
To your request for info on this subject;


Long term use of opiates for pain management has revealed information in just as recent as 5-7 years ago that doctors are aware of patients, males are showing patterns of diminished energy, erectile dysfunction, fatigue, depression and a lot of other similar symptoms related to low testosterone.

If you are only two years in, most likely you are not affected, yet. Go a span of years and you will need to mention to your HCP that you want to be tested regularly to make sure you catch when it starts to drop. As always, there is science to the discovery but as it was told to me in simple terms is long term chronic opiate users usually end up in this pattern and testosterone is consistently blocked at the receptors before test latches on.

The random user for physical injuries, surgeries and other infrequent users are not affected. I was given a 30 page document from my pain clinic that observed the studies of worker's comp male patients with chronic long term pain management that had a common bond of similar symptoms that grouped this category of men in one common denominator of low test.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Does+long+term+opiate+use+cause+low+testosterone




The above link offers the many facets of this issue. I found this information out on my own last year and glad I did.

My next questions are geared towards knowing if taking narcotics, aside from respiratory causes issues with any program relating to endurance/muscle building plays into. Anyone who truly knows narcotics knows that pain meds do not even work on vigorous muscle fitness and training. Misses the boat completely.
 
Thanks for the info. Now, how can I take pain meds, and still let test bond to the receptors?
I'm already taking synthetic test forever, so does the info above apply to just natural test?
 
Thanks for the info. Now, how can I take pain meds, and still let test bond to the receptors?
I'm already taking synthetic test forever, so does the info above apply to just natural test?

I have read an article on this (had a lot of back injuries). My understanding is it only relates to natural test production. If you are on TRT there is no difference.
 
First post here,

I'm going to give stats to give clarity to my exact situation, hoping that this request for advice helps not only myself but others in a similar situation.


45 year old male 6'8" 395. Was dx'd back in 2000 with advanced degenerative disc disease, been on narcotics for pain management for now 15 years. Was on one med intake for almost 12 of those 15 and opioid rotation was not done, causing hypoglycemic reactions (low blood sugar) as a result. They put me on a stronger med intake (morphine sulphate IR) that is a continual ongoing treatment that will go years forward to deal with the skeletal issues I have.

As time moved on, and with my research, found Low T present in the body. Follow up brought awareness to my HCP and instantly put me in treatment for data proving long term pain management blocks receptors where test links up, but pain meds were blocking the path, thus lowering test levels.

Started off with minimal 1x a month, 2x month, to 3x a month and now I self administer without visits, getting my costs down to $11.70 per injection.

Was told to administer 2x a month, but went on my own agenda to do 1ml a week. Far better results. As of this week, I'm now .5 twice a week.

Started upper body exercises 10 days ago with enormous results, even though I've felt like building body mass since I first started taking this product. But as a result of this increased strength there's been problems along the way. Retore left rotator cuff, tore right rotator cuff for first time in the last 9 months due to work related injuries, not exercise. 2 Cort injections, one in each shoulder. When I started my program about 2 weeks ago the left favored arm is actually my weakest, but immediately I'm getting both shoulders synchronized in equal strength.

Overweight is my current status, lots of stomach that needs to shrink. Arms are well built, shoulders and back lack proper discipline in strength training but I'm willing to do whatever needed. Goal here is through diet and exercise with cardio once I take fat mass and do the conversion in chest. Going after high protein, low sugar discipline and water intake.

Lots of muscle cramping in body if I don't keep hydration as top priority. Staying away from high sodium drinks or foods as water retention is present with taking Test C. Also had issue recently with high BP (217/163) at a relaxed state which put the sirens on and got put on bp meds for first time ever in 45 years.

Can't go into a solid red meat diet for protein because of history of gout/uric acid levels. Extreme muscle spasms around the spine I reluctantly use low doses of muscle relaxers, and only at a last resort. Don't like the experience of them.

The goal in asking the community for advice here:

I've got one chance left in my 40's to build an upper body, lean out. I'll be on Test C indefinitely through Dr's orders. Get tested every 3 months, but sometimes every 6. On my current regimen I plan on down dosing to make sure no overly high test results become of it's use.

The most important statement I can make for myself here is that I do NOT want to risk any more injuries to the ligaments/joints of my body as I've got almost 30 years pulling wrenches/extreme lifting as a master plumber. I'm going for burnout reps, low impact weight at first but the body is responding quickly to pack the weight on to make it count. No other methods of enhancement by injection or pill in my current program.

A little history,

Used to weightlift back when I was 29. Used various steroid related products but were always GNC vita paks, creatine supplements, something tied to DDT or DHT (not sure of abbrev) and had great results.

But this time around I can tell I have strength in a different way now, enormous strength with fast results already visible. I'm building for the long haul, redesigning my stature/physique to take myself into my 50's/60's without having an excessive BMI. I do NOT want to dare touch creatine supplements now after 15 years subjective damage to my aging kidneys... not worth it at this point.

Given that I'm on this product *test C* for an indefinite period of time, should I follow the readings on this forum of 'cycling' this treatment? Of course if a blood test reveals low, they'll prescribe more. If high, they'll reduce my amounts either by product prescribed or by reducing amount per intake.

My long term goal is to build the largest chest/shoulders/back with less attention to legs. Already have good solid mass in those areas. Just trying to give myself one last chance to get what I had when I was 29 and I'm actually already there if the fat mass is gone. It wears on me like two separate skins.

Hope the full disclosure helps. I'm dead serious in my program and the physique will appear in the coming months, just need some helpful guidance if those of you are willing.

Since the issue is "low T" that is optimally treated with TRT why in Gods green earth would you even consider using TT to cycle???.

Isn't the fact your being treated for chronic LBP with NARCOTICS (Morphine in particular) warning enough cycling AAS to lift weight is NUTS!

Your activities are best limited to low impact aerobics, dietary modifications with the intent to LOOSE WEIGHT, and discontinue your narcotics use.

Good luck!
 
Since the issue is "low T" that is optimally treated with TRT why in Gods green earth would you even consider using TT to cycle???.

Isn't the fact your being treated for chronic LBP with NARCOTICS (Morphine in particular) warning enough cycling AAS to lift weight is NUTS!

Your activities are best limited to low impact aerobics, dietary modifications with the intent to LOOSE WEIGHT, and discontinue your narcotics use.

Good luck!


Thanks for responding. Let me clarify in response.


I have a lot of weight centered in the middle of my body, stomach. Some in my chest that I need to convert to muscle mass before I lose it, going by the knowledge of taking fat to muscle instead of nothing into something. Arms and legs did not get heavy like the stomach area. Barrel chested is a good representation.

Dietary rules are being followed, low impact exercises to start, nothing 'radical' and through all of this I won't be able to with the numerous health problems I have. It would be literally impossible to stop the narcotic treatment with the continual degradation of my discs, the moderate arthritis that continues to grow as I age.

Certainly not a sob story; I keep moving forward regardless of pain, minimize my intake of pain meds as anyone who truly understands pain management knows to never medicate completely to hide the pain. That is when you are most prone to injury. I use them just to temper the worst of pain, still deal with it but keeps the mind from focusing directly on that. 15 years in, I truly wish I could come off them but I'd never make it through a day as a plumber standing on concrete, heavy lifting and many other laborious tasks that is a beat down depending on work load. There is nothing positive taking these types of chemicals long term. It ruins the body slowly, no way around it.

In my statement about cycling my test:

This is another product that I'm going to be taking life-long as another medication is blocking pathways to test. I'm concerned greatly of elevated test results as they as my HCP would instantly drop dosages down as a result.

I don't feel comfortable in this long term objective to do anything more strenuous during this physical therapy/transformation I'm going after, but I want it to come quicker, and dosing 2x a week sets my peaks, working far better than when I started on test over a year ago with one shot a month.

If an injection of test c has a peak at 6-8 days, splitting doses and administering every 3-4 days should elevate levels with the constant introduction into the body.

The results are amazing; I haven't lifted/exercised in my program since new years day. I went up in weight in some of my exercises almost 35-40lbs, reps went up, body was responding well.

It took 3 days before pain set in. Will not exercise until the pain resides which today (5th) is my return feeling safe from injury, and no weight increases in the exercises. Since I'm dealing with a lot of worn out parts, I'm truly trying to 'make it count' as I want the slimmer figure, I don't personally think I could commit to a long term fitness program that's aggressive in the nature of 2-3x's a week. Joints, namely. Getting the BMI to a normal level, structure my back to be self-supporting of my spine and neck, work on features of my physique that I've wanted for some time. Never will I want or have washboard abs. Having a large chest, solid large arms and a trim body is really all I'm after.

I try to respond to questions knowing many others view and may never respond. I read countless discussions before I joined, not being able to find someone in my very exact situation. Since I'm soon to enter my 50's, definitely don't want to carry all this extra weight on the body that would be detrimental to my health. My recent weight gain was contributed heavily to my stomach locking up being on these treatments, having to use laxatives extensively to keep what needs to come out, going.
 
Hey dude you're on top of the world and damn sure don't need advice from Meso members so go for it, and GTFOOH!
 
FWIW, you cannot convert fat into muscle in any way, shape or form. Given you're quite overweight, and on TRT, you don't need to worry about losing muscle mass as you shed fat. Odds are you may even be able to build a little bit of muscle as you're doing it. Generally speaking, the amount of fat vs muscle dropped when you lose weight is proportional to the amount of fat you have. Until you get lean, you'll be dropping almost exclusively fat when you lose weight.

Speaking as a guy who used to weigh damn near 300lbs at 5'11 and now weighs under 200, your back and joints will DEFINITELY thank you for shedding the extra weight.

Given you've got over 100lbs of fat to lose to get to where you want to be, you could probably go on a semi-starvation diet (not that I'd suggest it) and still not lose much muscle.

I'd try to be as aggressive as you can with your diet. Given your weight, losing at least 2lbs per week should be a reasonable and readily achievable goal.

Also, especially given your existing health problems, hiding your "real" T levels from your doctor is a very bad idea, IMHO..
 
Thank you for the response. I cut out all soft-drinks and sugary snacks, anything with sugar, even apple juice. Just straight up water. No breads, whites, pastas. Eating red meat, fish, chicken without breads or heavy add ons. Consistently hungry around the clock, will eat dry cereal just to get away from stomach growls to go to sleep.

1/2 hour on the treadmill, fast walking for cardio. Is there a place on here where people post before and after pictures?

Haven't found any yet here.
 
The whole appetite thing was tough for me at the beginning too. I found that lots of protein and lots of veggies (especially leafy greens) helped get it under control.

My assumption is that it's a matter of regaining leptin sensitivity, and normalizing ghrelin/CCK production in the GI tract.

I'm pretty new here too, just joined up recently after starting TRT a few months ago, so I'm not sure if there's a specific before/after picture section. Given this is your thread, you could probably do it here if you like. That said, given that there is plenty of talk about illegal activities on this board, it might be wise to edit your face and any identifying tattoos or anything along those lines out of the pictures if you think posting here could cause you trouble in real life.
 
I thought about that right after I posted, thinking it might not fly. This place is great for knowledge. Found some really good critical info that opened my eyes to some boundaries I didn't want to cross along the way.

Good luck with your journey, pretty sure we all just want to get to a better place in health.
 
Thank you for the response. I cut out all soft-drinks and sugary snacks, anything with sugar, even apple juice. Just straight up water. No breads, whites, pastas. Eating red meat, fish, chicken without breads or heavy add ons. Consistently hungry around the clock, will eat dry cereal just to get away from stomach growls to go to sleep.

1/2 hour on the treadmill, fast walking for cardio. Is there a place on here where people post before and after pictures?

Haven't found any yet here.

This. This. This. I was not overweight when I started TRT (175 pds at 5'10"). Over 6 months, I dropped 25 pds by doing exactly what you have here.

No breads (whole grains like Ezeikel bread if I do)
No pasta
No sugar (not in coffee, not in my tea, no soft drinks, nothing)
Paleo Diet (meats and veggies)
Cardio 150 minutes per week (walking and swimming)
 
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