AI, HCG and PCT Question

[Equinob]

I started my short 8 week Tri Test (E, Prop, PhenylProp -- 750mg/wk) cycle a little under prepared. Was thinking I wouldn't need to run HCG because I wouldn't be shut down that long, so didn't have any on hand. Also have never had any sides other than a little bloating, and this was a straight TEST cycle, so didn't get an AI.

Now I'm a little concerned about getting my test production back on line ASAP as I've had a little shrinkage, so I'm going to add HCG (250u EOD) for the last week of my cycle, and up until my PCT starts.

I've also had serious bloat this time, and high BP. So I ordered some exemestane which I'm going to start 25mg/day during the last week of my cycle. But I'm not sure how long I should run it after my last pin, before I start my PCT, or even if I need to run it that long since it's going to eliminate most of my free estrogen, and I don't want to crash it either. I've also read that it can help to run it into the start of my PCT to encourage test production.

PCT is a basic 30 days Nolva (40/20/20/20), Clomid (100/50/50/50), starting about 25 days after my last Test E pin.

Appreciate any thoughts.

 

[zoot494]

Yea, many now run exemestane during their PCT, but you are already going to be running nolva so there's no point in doing that.

HCG should be run for a total of 5000iu or not at all. If you're only doing 250iu EOD then you get like 750iu in 1 week. That's not an effective dose and youre pretty much just dumping it down the drain. Most run it for the last 4 weeks of their cycle so it doesn't interfere with PCT @ 1250iu a week

 

[Equinob]

HCG should be run for a total of 5000iu or not at all.

Sorry, I mean I'm going to run a total of 5000iu before I start my PCT. So it may end up being more than 250iu EOD. I'll stop about a week before I start my PCT. So that's around 35 days including the last week of my cycle, and roughly 500iu EOD rather than 250. Sorry for the confusion.

Again, I'm no expert, but there is a lot of conflicting info about HCG out there, and I have the hcg, so I'm gonna run it. Might be a waste. Might not. I haven't seen solid consensus either way.

My main concern is about exemestane. Since the pharmacist recommended that for my particular Test E sides, I was planning on running that right up until about 3 days before I start nolva. I guess the only question is, would there be any benefit to running the exemestane into my PCT, and starting nolva later? Like hcg there's a lot of conflicting opinions out there about using exemestane in a PCT with very little solid consensus either way.

I'm actually short about a week of nolva compared to the clomid I have on hand, so maybe I do run the exemestane a week with the clomid, and then run out the PCT with nolva?

My biggest concern with exemestane is still crashing my estrogen. So, to curb my sides, do I really need to run it for 30+ days straight?

 

[Northern Nutrition]

Youre trying to micromanage this cycle and its not working. In fact you're already experiencing issues because you neglected to properly educate yourself and acquire the necessary items on hand before you began this cycle.

1. AI on-cycle, not PCT. If you manage your estrogen during your cycle you do NOT require any AI during recovery phase.

2. hCG on cycle up to PCT. Prevent testicular atrophy, dont try to cure it after the fact during recovery.

3. If youre short on ANYTHING for your intended cycle, then you do not begin your cycle. Period. Unless you're irresponsible and dont give a shit about your health.

 

[Equinob]

Youre trying to micromanage this cycle and its not working.

Thanks for your input. I actually chose not to include an AI, and HCG, based on everything I've read and discussed in these and other forums before. But most importantly based on my experience on cycles in the past. I've never needed an AI before, but had them on hand. Suddenly I do need one, on a simple test cycle, and caught without, so lesson learned and point taken.

As for the HCG, again, conscious decision not to include. Changed my mind mid-cycle. Have only taken HCG twice on previous cycles and I honestly don't think it made a bit of difference in my recovery compared to cycles without. And I've read enough to know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

And finally, I'm perfectly well educated on AIs and how they work, I've been doing this a while. However, there is plenty of information out there about how exemestane is being used during PCT now. This is all new to me. I asked the pharmacist who sold me the AI whether I should go with exemestane or anastrozole for my particular symptoms which I've never had on cycle before as I said. He recommended exemestane which I knew nothing about. So I came here to get some more education. Was I wrong to ask? I mean, I've got my Nolva and Clomid, and can easily get more Nolva if I need it. No problem if my questions about exemestance go nowhere here. I'm running the exemestane during my cycle and pre-PCT. I'm only asking what-ifs for PCT use from other's experience and knowledge, as well as what I can expect from exemestane in general.

As for micromanaging, I don't really understand the criticism. I'm checking my blood pressure, getting my blood work, and laying out a proper PCT timeline. If that's micromanaging then I'm confused about how to run a proper cycle. So I accept that yes, I broke the golden rule and was underprepared for sides, and changing my mind mid-cycle. All based on my previous experience and education. So perhaps your chiding will help make this point for a future reader -- whether you need it or not, whether you intentionally choose to leave something out, or have never had problems with it in the past, have it on hand just in case the unexpected happens, or you change your mind.

Thanks.

 

[Equinob]

When I read an article like:

HPGA Normalization Protocol After Androgen Treatment
N Vergel, AL Hodge, MC Scally
Program for Wellness Restoration, PoWeR

Which recommends the following PCT protocol, one has to ask questions:

This is a 100% success rate! After the HCG was discontinued both SERM?s were continued. The following is the exact protocol in laymen?s terms.

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

I now strongly believe that an AI should be used as long as there is an aromatizing compound being administered. ... Estrogen rebound at this critical time during PCT is undesirable so using Arimidex would be inferior. Therefore I believe Aromasin is the AI of choice during PCT.

 

[Equinob]

Well this just keeps getting murkier and murkier for me ... now here's an article close to home from Bill Roberts who seems to be recommending that hcg can be used during PCT.

https://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/hcg/

However, upon levels of injected steroid falling below what would be commensurate with 100 mg/week use, very low dose HCG such as 100-125 IU every other day is acceptable as a part of PCT.​

Is this the "aromatizing compound being administered" that Dr. Scally is referring to in his recommendation to use exemestane as part of the PCT regimen?

And if so, what is 100-125 iu EOD actually doing? The prevailing logic being that the SERM is supposed to be restoring natural function after being suppressed for weeks at a time.Is such a low dose even affective, and wouldn't it naturally inhibit the effectiveness of the SERM?

 

[BIGMESC]

I believe Dr. Scally has lowered the HCG dose in the blast section of this protocol
I did an experiment and used Adex during pct and it worked fine, no issues.
Here is a link to the entire cycle, hcg, pct and post bloodwork.
Its in the Guide to pct sticky, which is a great read, and Dr Scally comments and updates
the pct protocol.

https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/comprehensive-guide-to-pct.134353228/page-6#post-1042941

Also the "Power PCT" as people have called it was developed for ASIH guys who are not restarting due to long or excessive use. For a relative short period like most cycles 8-12 weeks this is more than enough. Maybe overkill

When I read an article like:

HPGA Normalization Protocol After Androgen Treatment
N Vergel, AL Hodge, MC Scally
Program for Wellness Restoration, PoWeR

Which recommends the following PCT protocol, one has to ask questions:

This is a 100% success rate! After the HCG was discontinued both SERM?s were continued. The following is the exact protocol in laymen?s terms.

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day

I now strongly believe that an AI should be used as long as there is an aromatizing compound being administered. ... Estrogen rebound at this critical time during PCT is undesirable so using Arimidex would be inferior. Therefore I believe Aromasin is the AI of choice during PCT.