Comprehensive Guide to PCT

[Eloquence]

So I'm looking at a liquid arimidex

Its 30 ml - is that enough? I can't figure it out.

But I swear I'm retarded and I can't figure out if I should use during cycle, I thought I read somewhere it increases injury chance in joints. Or if it is a emergency gyno killer.

 

[Millard]

Or if it is a emergency gyno killer.

No, that would be SERMs like Nolvadex and Clomid.

 

[Burrr]

For a typical beginner cycle of test E or C, of 500mg a week or for the calculator 220 every 3 days.
The Calculator says 21 days minimum, but Ape and Dr Scally suggest longer times. 35 days in this thread and I've seen Dr Scally mention up to six weeks in another thread (not sure about dosage he was responding to)

I would like to find a good rule of thumb to suggest for beginners to use as a PCT guideline, after running a newbie cycle of 500mg a week. It's alarming how almost every AAS board I've seen goes with the standard clomid/nolva started 2 weeks after last pin. If six weeks is really needed to clear the body of exogenous test, most PCT's are done when the juice finally clears the system.

 

[Burrr]

This is another cool graphing tool, http://steroidplot.com/

 

[Millard]

A largely overlooked factor that can greatly aid in maintaining gains, reducing HPTA shutdown length or extending a cycle without lengthening HPTA shutdown is switching from Long ester AAS to short ester AAS toward the end of the cycle. When done correctly this reduces the amount of time that users must wait to start PCT and/or increases the amount of time TT levels stay supra-physiological.

Bill Roberts gives the thumbs up to use of short-term chain esters at the end of the cycle as @ApeShitFuckJacked recommends:

I’d recommend saving the propionate and suspension for use at the end of the cycle, to enable faster transition from high levels allowing gains to low levels allowing recovery. There’s no value in spending an extended time after the last injection with levels still too high to allow recovery, yet not high enough to allow further gains. Actually, it’s not just that there’s no value, but a negative value: it impedes recovery.

Strategic use of propionate esters and suspension at the end of a cycle aids rapid recovery.

Source: https://thinksteroids.com/articles/testosterone-cypionate-enanthate-propionate-suspension/

 

[Eloquence]

I almost completely confident in the planned pct. My only question is if I am following the ideal plan op posted

How much total hcg do I need, and how do I know which one to get corion, fertigyn, ovidac, hucog.

To many choices.

 

[BIGMESC]

Burrr,
I waited 30+ days from last pin of test E to start Clomid/nolva.
I ran test p for 3 weeks and ran hcg 500iu 2 times a week.
during the one week for TP to clear I bumped up hcg to 1000iu e3d for that week and through the first week of PCT.
PCT is 1mg adex per week, 50clomid/20nolva per day with a double dose the first day.
I am finishing my second week and so far it has been a seamless transition, No crash, energy levels are great, libido down slightly, if blood work comes back good 6 weeks post PCT Then I would say I have found my sweet spot.

FWIW cycle was
weeks 1-10 585mg TE/week 250mg E3D
weeks 1-8 465mg EQ/week 200mg E3D
week 11-13 100mg TP eod
week 11-14 40mg tbol ed
week 12-13 Hcg 500iu twice a week
week 14-15 Hcg 1000iu E3D
week 15-19 pct

PCT was
Day 1 - 100mg clomid, 40mg nolva
week 1 - 50mg clomid ed, 20mg nolva ed, 1000iu Hcg e3d, 1mg adex ew
week 2 - 50mg clomid ed, 20mg nolva ed, 1mg adex ew
week 3 - 50mg clomid ed, 20mg nolva ed, 1mg adex ew
week 4 - 20ng nolva ed

blood test was done 6 weeks after last pct dose

 

[Eloquence]

Virgin here,

plan is Test eth 250 2x per week 12 weeks, and Tbol to kickstart for 1-4 weeks.

I know the Op has the optimal recovery posted, but for a begginer with a simple cycle is that much clomid / nolva needed. Or can I get away with a smaller dosage.

 

[BIGMESC]

Virgin here,

plan is Test eth 250 2x per week 12 weeks, and Tbol to kickstart for 1-4 weeks.

I know the Op has the optimal recovery posted, but for a begginer with a simple cycle is that much clomid / nolva needed. Or can I get away with a smaller dosage.

@jujus For a first cycle of 500mg of test a week, a smaller dose should do.
Something like 40/20/20/20 of nolva only would be enough.
Of course this depends on you age, base line TT.
Just make sure you wait 3 weeks minimum, at that dose, from last pin to start PCT

 

[Eloquence]

24 training 4 years, I will be 230 13ish bf % when I begin.

I'm feeling ambitious and I might bump it to 600mg week for 12 weeks
And have tbol as akickstarter.

I'm getting bloods done before and after for sure.

I appreciate the help bigmesc, now does ape or dr scally have any concurring or suggestions

 

[msanchez]

I was redoing a calculation for Test E leaving the body, wanted to see if I could get some input. Based on a 5 day half life, at 300mg per injection, I calculated that 21days after the last injection exogenous test should be at about 16mg. If you've run the calculation before, does that sound about right? If that's so, it sounds like PCT should start right around there (or even earlier?)

 

[TheronB]

I just took my last hCG injection and had planned to start my PCT in one week. Based on this thread, I should wait two more weeks before I start my PCT. Will two weeks off hCG before PCT be too long? I have one more bottle I had planned to use next cycle, but I can use it this time of it would be essential.

Thanks

 

[Michael Scally MD]

They should overlap.

 

[TheronB]

OK... I'll use the last bottle and it will overlap one day at 1000iu E3D.

 

[TheronB]

If I end my next cycle with Tren A exclusively making sure I am off Test Cyp for the last five weeks, I should start PCT ten days after the last Tren A injection, correct?

 

[TheronB]

Actually I could run Test Cyp until the last four weeks since I'll have at least one week after stopping the Tren A. Am I calculating this correctly?

 

[jabrel3]

I have found that 4 weeks off all meds (LH & TT) provides an excellent idea for HPTA Restoration. If the LH is still high, one might wait a few more weeks.

As far as hCG use, I suggest use during the cycle and the initial stages of PCT (after the last pin/oral).

They should overlap.

So if someone is using HCG 250-500iu twice per week on cycle, and say for example they are starting PCT 35 days out from last AAS injection. They should continue HCG at the same dose through the first week of PCT?

 

[Burrr]

I've seen a few different interpretations of half lives while reading up on PCT.
I came across something called the rule of 5's, stating that 5 half lives will generally take the level to 0
That would tell me that 35 days is little too long to wait.

If we apply the half life to the test measured in ng/dl we could take 4000ng/dl starting level, week one 2000 ng/dl, week two 1000 ng/dl, and week three 500ng/dl.

If 500 ng/dl is a good level to begin PCT, would this mean week 3 is time to start?

After the recent discussion on test serum levels compared to dosage, I think this comment becomes relevant again. There is a linear relationship of exogenous test and serum levels.

 

[flexx89]

so lets say:

wk 1-10 = 500mg test e
wk 11-12 = 500mg test p

wk 11 & 12 test e is clearing out of system, pct w/ nova+clomid can one week after last test prop dose? will that give sufficient time which is roughly 21 days from last test e pop

 

[alphastrength50]

id say start pct right after the lest test p shot bro but peraonally id do test p weeks 11-14 just to make sure the test e clears