MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

Comprehensive Guide to PCT

Burrr said:
Ape, and anyone else that has done the 35 days after last pin, what was your experience like? did you crash hard before rebounding? I've only done one PCT myself, and started at 2 weeks. It seemed like it worked well, and I never felt completely crashed. The hard crash is one thing that obviously scares some people away from trying the 5 weeks after last pin start time.
Click to expand...

Burrr,
I waited 30+ days from last pin of test E to start Clomid/nolva.
I ran test p for 3 weeks and ran hcg 500iu 2 times a week.
during the one week for TP to clear I bumped up hcg to 1000iu e3d for that week and through the first week of PCT.
PCT is 1mg adex per week, 50clomid/20nolva per day with a double dose the first day.
I am finishing my second week and so far it has been a seamless transition, No crash, energy levels are great, libido down slightly, if blood work comes back good 6 weeks post PCT Then I would say I have found my sweet spot.

FWIW cycle was
weeks 1-10 585mg TE/week 250mg E3D
weeks 1-8 465mg EQ/week 200mg E3D
week 11-13 100mg TP eod
week 11-14 40mg tbol ed
week 12-13 Hcg 500iu twice a week
week 14-15 Hcg 1000iu E3D
week 15-19 pct
 
BIGMESC said:
Burrr,
I waited 30+ days from last pin of test E to start Clomid/nolva.
I ran test p for 3 weeks and ran hcg 500iu 2 times a week.
during the one week for TP to clear I bumped up hcg to 1000iu e3d for that week and through the first week of PCT.
PCT is 1mg adex per week, 50clomid/20nolva per day with a double dose the first day.
I am finishing my second week and so far it has been a seamless transition, No crash, energy levels are great, libido down slightly, if blood work comes back good 6 weeks post PCT Then I would say I have found my sweet spot.

FWIW cycle was
weeks 1-10 585mg TE/week 250mg E3D
weeks 1-8 465mg EQ/week 200mg E3D
week 11-13 100mg TP eod
week 11-14 40mg tbol ed
week 12-13 Hcg 500iu twice a week
week 14-15 Hcg 1000iu E3D
week 15-19 pct
Click to expand...

I like how you ran the HCG at a lower dose two weeks prior to running the higher dose. This is what I am going to do as well. I speculate it will yield better results as far as LH responsiveness.

Nice on switching to the short ester :D

That cycle was planned out nicely.
 
Ape, thanks for bearing with me.

Big, thanks for the feedback. Test P sounds like the best way to finish a long ester cycle.
 
ApeShitFuckJacked said:
I like how you ran the HCG at a lower dose two weeks prior to running the higher dose. This is what I am going to do as well. I speculate it will yield better results as far as LH responsiveness.

Nice on switching to the short ester :D

That cycle was planned out nicely.
Click to expand...

Ape I'm surprised that you like that protocol since you had mentioned in the OP that hCG should be stopped two weeks prior to using Nolva/Clomid...
 
No no it's not stopped two weeks prior to pct. It's started two weeks prior to pct. You would literally be doing your last HCG pin on your first day of SERMs.

He just extended HCG treatment at a slightly lower dose for four weeks.

I do no know which exactly is better but either will be effective,
 
ApeShitFuckJacked said:
No no it's not stopped two weeks prior to pct. It's started two weeks prior to pct. You would literally be doing your last HCG pin on your first day of SERMs.

He just extended HCG treatment at a slightly lower dose for four weeks.

I do no know which exactly is better but either will be effective,
Click to expand...

Oh I see! but don't you think that there might be a little too much aromatization, and therefore elevated levels of E, going on with hCG then SERMs right after. Maybe a week between last pin of hCG until it clears out of your system then start the SERMs???
 
IRQ_001 said:
Oh I see! but don't you think that there might be a little too much aromatization, and therefore elevated levels of E, going on with hCG then SERMs right after. Maybe a week between last pin of hCG until it clears out of your system then start the SERMs???
Click to expand...

SERM's are going to elevate your e2 as well..it would actually be better to start them sooner as opposed to later in order to block the negative e2 feedback at the hypothalamus. If your concerned with e2 do not delay your SERM's just use an Ai.

I recommend an AI as another MOA of increasing TT levels. How effective is it compared to SERM's alone? Idk but even if there was absolutely no additive effect it would still be beneficial for controlling bloat and lipolysis.
 
Sorry I have a question for long ester like deca how long do you reccomend how many days you should wait? To start pct longer that 35 days ? Or would you stop the deca before you end your 16 week cycle with test e? I need to figure out better timing for pct for longer esters. Thanks in advance
 
I was planning on running hCG throughout the cycle per the BR method, but unfortunately I wasn't able to. I'm planning on a method similar to above- will run a lower amount for two weeks followed by a higher later.

Do you think, though, that it should be 1000iu E3D? Over a two week period, that's only 5 injections. I was thinking about whether EOD would be more beneficial.
 
@ anabolic Google pct calculator from be fit for free. It will give you an idea of when to start pct with deca. If you want to start it sooner you will have to continue test longer than deca.

@ Sanchez that is how I run hcg between cycle and pct. I finish with short esters then run 1000iu hcg e3d this allows me to overlap start of pct by a week and for me makes a seamless transition.
 
Ape,
A couple questions for you, or Dr Scally.
The PCT on page one looks like it would work for a pretty hard shut down, but includes compounds that most first time AAS users don't acquire.

For a typical first cycle, something like test E or C for 12 weeks:
If HCG is not used, would you run the PCT the same, only minus the HCG?
If Test prop is not used, would you still wait 35 days after last pin and run the clomid nolva the same dose and time you have listed.
 
Really looking forward to apes response.

Been lurking for a while finally made an account and I'm getting my pct planned out now for cost evaluation and options.

I plan on a 12 week of test e
Optional possible dbol or andro50 to kickstart I'm open to opinions.

From what I've gathered a perfect plan would be

1-12 test e
1-6 dbol
15-17 hcg 2000iu e3d
17-24
Day 1-35 50mg clomid morn + evening
Day 1-45 20mg tamoxifen morn evening

Day 1-45
And the ai exemestane 12.5mg e3d

Is this ideal to perfect, should I change any thing
 
jujus said:
Really looking forward to apes response.

Been lurking for a while finally made an account and I'm getting my pct planned out now for cost evaluation and options.

I plan on a 12 week of test e
Optional possible dbol or andro50 to kickstart I'm open to opinions.

From what I've gathered a perfect plan would be

1-12 test e
1-6 dbol
15-17 hcg 2000iu e3d
17-24
Day 1-35 50mg clomid morn + evening
Day 1-45 20mg tamoxifen morn evening

Day 1-45
And the ai exemestane 12.5mg e3d

Is this ideal to perfect, should I change any thing
Click to expand...

I like it, looks pretty good, my comment would be on the use of an AI
The use of an AI like stane is to control E2 while on cycle and may be used during HCG use and PCT as well.

If you have not cycled before I would plan on having bloods done 4 weeks in to evaluate you estrogen e2 levels. Why take something if you don't need it. Have nolva on hand as first line of defense for gyno flairs. If you find your e2 if highly elevated then begin using the AI as you have dosed raising/lowering as needed to bring you closer to normal levels.

My personal experience was that I did not have any sides till week 6 then my nips got very tender, I started nolva 40mg for 2 days then 20 ED got bloods done and my estrogen was very high 175 on a scale that went up to 42. I used adex 2mg then 1 mg a week and that put me at 78 which is fine for me on cycle due to the elevated test that is being converted to estrogen.

Jujus and Burr check this link out, play with the dosages and compounds.
It will give you an idea of the minimum wait time for PCT.

http://pct.befit4free.net/
 
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