Comprehensive Guide to PCT

[Burrr]

The first post will be edited today and I may include a torem option but it will depend upon him much time I have to research it.

Here's a link to a good discussion on Torem. Steroids Forum: Steroids QA/PCT & Anti Estrogens/Toremifene PCT (to answer all those questions)

From reading up on it, Torem seems to be pretty mild on side effects. The biggest concern is for people with heart rhythm problems, I read it can exacerbate those into life threatening conditions.

My only experience with PCT was one that include torem, side effects were very minimal. I noticed frequent urination and vivid dreams, but nothing really negative.
I finished that PCT about 4 weeks ago, and still feel pretty normal.

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

Torem should only be a substitute for Nolva based on what I have found.

Clomid has a slightly different MOA than Nolva and Torem.

What I would really like to see is a comparison between torem+clomid and Nolva+clomid.

This would be the only real way to judge if it is a better or equally effective substitute.

 

[morris00123]

What have yall heard about Great White Peptides PCT?

 

[Burrr]

Torem should only be a substitute for Nolva based on what I have found.

Clomid has a slightly different MOA than Nolva and Torem.

What I would really like to see is a comparison between torem+clomid and Nolva+clomid.

This would be the only real way to judge if it is a better or equally effective substitute.

I wonder just how similar the MOA is for torem and nolva. They are both cancer drugs, while Clomid is the only serm that is for female fertility.
I know that I've seen Dr Scally post data that suggests there is a symbiotic relationship when running clomid with nolva. I wonder if the same increase in effectiveness happens when running clomid with torem.

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

I wonder just how similar the MOA is for torem and nolva. They are both cancer drugs, while Clomid is the only serm that is for female fertility.
I know that I've seen Dr Scally post data that suggests there is a symbiotic relationship when running clomid with nolva. I wonder if the same increase in effectiveness happens when running clomid with torem.

Probably but who knows...

I think you'd have to run 120mg of torem to equate to 40mg Nolva.

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

What have yall heard about Great White Peptides PCT?

G2G

But This is not a source thread lets keep that out of this one. There are plenty of other threads where you can ask these type of questions.

Thanks.

 

[morris00123]

Thanks ASFJ. My bad. I appreciate all the info on PCT. Anybody that knows anything, knows that PCT is more important than the cycle. Thanks again!!

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

To everyone who has been following or read the info in this thread.

There are mistakes in the first post.

I sent the revised version to Millard to edit. I would suggest everyone read it again tomorrow once it becomes a sticky so that you are not mislead.

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

Ok so everything in the first post has been corrected and I have to say I'm pretty proud of it. If anyone has any questions is would be happy to answer them.

 

[itsthemind2013]

Good work Ape,now here is my question. Or my view. Hcg,tells your testys to produce testosterone. Testosterone tells your testys to stop producing testosterone. While on cycle why should you be giving your body too opposing signals? Personally I wont use Hcg during a cycle. I infect will be using Hcg 2/3eeks after my last test ena shot. If I take a gram and a half of test I will use 5000 iu's
every 5 days. 750Mg of test I would use 2500 iu's of Hcg every 5 days. 350mgs of test I would then use 1250 iu's of Hcg every 5 days. And so on and so fourth. Along with Novadex 20Mg ed and Clomid 100Mg Ed. My pct will be 30 to 60 days depending if I can last more then 30 days off cycle,witch I hope,my ego or will power would allow.

 

[itsthemind2013]

I am not saying your pct protocols are wrong. Please dont think I am discrediting your knowledge. I guess what I am asking is will hcg work while on test? Is it safe to give your body too opposite signals? Will this mess us up? And I do know Hcg can also cause estro sides but if your on a high dose of test our bodys should be able to tolerate the high dose Hcg. Right?

 

[itsthemind2013]

Oh and btw I would keep hcg use to 30 days. Nova n Clom to 60 days. Sorry im not on a CPU.

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

HCG is a synthetic gonadotropin. So yes it will send the signal to produce testosterone as if it were LH to your leydig cells.

This stimulates your leydig cells which have been atrophied due to low LH and thus low endogenous test production.

This essentially primes your testes to be responsive to LH. Which is almost always the limiting factor for recovery.

LH levels rise extremely quickly with SERMs and AIs the problem is essentially the "lag" where leydig cells remain unresponsive to LH therefore the use of HCG is always warranted to induce a speedy recovery.

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

No harm will come from using HCG while on cycle in fact there are only benefits (aside from a proportional rise in e2 from higher TT but this is very manageable and most likely not even noticeable)

I recommend shooting HCG two weeks before end of cycle in order to save on costs as I believe it will achieve the same results as shooting low dose during the entire cycle.

You should allow yourself at least a month after pct where your HPTA is fully restored. Blood should be drawn at 2 and 4 weeks to make sure the HPTA Is functional without the aid of SERMs

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

To clarify your body is in a constant regulatory state of positive and negative feedback loops in order to achieve homeostasis.

Essentially you are getting the signal to produce and to stop producing testosterone 24/7. Through the release of LH.

It's a stop go stop go effect.

 

[tacohuman]

This is awesome. Thank you for putting in the time to put this together, most of the guides I've seen look fairly outdated or inaccurate.

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

Thanks man anything I'm missing?

 

[tacohuman]

Just one question. I understand how to determine the time of switching to a short ester and the concept of tapering up, but how do you determine the amount used when switching and the amount to taper up?

 

[ApeShitFuckJacked]

It's really just a rough estimate but it mostly has to do with the half life of test e. Calculate the remaining mg of test e each week then just add prop to reach desired mg. Prop takes a few days to start working though so that's why the first week more than what is needed is used to essentially front load it for the next week.

 

[tacohuman]

One more. No tapering pct? Most I've seen are 100/100/50/50 clomid and 40/40/20/20 nolva. Is it beneficial to maintain dosage throughout pct or would tapering off help?