AITA for thinking today’s “cycles” are basically homeopathic?

[readalot]

R

Thread 'Considering a first cycle....all your confusion cleared up here.'

Dec 28, 2023

So you want to dabble with AAS for body dysmorphia or cosmetic reasons?

Step 1. Understand the basic workings of hpt(g)a - hypothalamic pituitary testicular (aka gonadal) axis. Control theory. Where does testosterone exhibit negative feedback? H or P? How about estradiol?

Step 2. Understand PCT. What is it? Is it necessary? When is it necessary?

Step 3. Understand basics of pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics for the drugs you are considering

Step 4. What's your plan? Inject some stuff and come back to the forums in 10 to 12 weeks and ask what to do next? Short, medium...

• readalot

• 

More reading, less youtube or Instagram or whatever the hell it is right now.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

It's the final result of people lying about their doses and gas lighting everyone into thinking 250mg of testosterone is a blast.

People like vigorous Steve saying they took 25mg of tren a week etc.

I started a cycle log taking 500mg of test E and 500mg deca and got the same sort of comments.

This is a harm reduction forum so no one is going to recommend grams of gear.

Theres a pro here called Mac11 on low doses and Misha on 4 grams of test E. So it's all over the place. You've got other people take 200mg of tren ace a day....

But generally people are running trt plus cycles. I don't know if they are wasting their time or multi gram cycles are overkill. This industry is such a head fuck.

appreciate the shout.

I don’t know that I’d call my cycles “low” but in contrast to the popularity of voicing insane cycles for attention, I guess maybe you’re right.

While it’s much more a flex to grow on low doses than high, this shit calling TRT doses a cycle are for idiots. You’ve got kids jumping on gear only mimicking their natural levels while destroying their natural HPTA function.

The overall goal should be to use a little as possible to achieve the desired result. There is however a threshold. For the most part, optimizing test levels at or near the physiological range is pointless.

 

[readalot]

The overall goal should be to use a little as possible to achieve the desired result. There is however a threshold.

Agreed. Spot on.

For the most part, optimizing test levels at or near the physiological range is pointless.

Part of the issue is also widespread ignorance of what physiological actually is and widespread "TRT" inflation.

 

[adrenalytic]

Why use more than your genetics will utilize productively (assuming all else dialed in, a big IF). The logical approach would start low and titrate up. Then monitor positive benefits vs negative sides and do the tradeoff based on individual goals.

Makes much more sense than blanket recommendation to full send 500 mg/week of Test to someone who stepped in the gym for the first time 2 weeks ago.

As an old guy who started abusing steroids late in life, I have no "back in the day" experience to share but I came into this knowing there was no turning back. Only forward. And since I want to live a long fruitful life, starting low and slow just made sense to me.

Turns out I respond really well to smaller amounts. My last cycle was 210 test and 400 DHB. I put on roughly 5-7 lbs of contractile tissue over 12 weeks (exact number pending post cut weight). So if I can gain at this rate and keep my blood markers looking good at the same time, why wouldn't I?

Everyone metabolizes drugs differently so I don't begrudge anyone that feels they need to run higher doses. It's the ones that dive straight into grams upon grams without even testing low dose first that I can only shake my head at.
Icarus flew too close to the sun and paid the ultimate price.

 

[Juicedhead]

Why use more than your genetics will utilize productively (assuming all else dialed in, a big IF). The logical approach would start low and titrate up. Then monitor positive benefits vs negative sides and do the tradeoff based on individual goals.

Makes much more sense than blanket recommendation to full send 500 mg/week of Test to someone who stepped in the gym for the first time 2 weeks ago.

yeah but who would take gear after only training for 2 weeks? Are kids actually doing that now days?

 

[readalot]

yeah but who would take gear after only training for 2 weeks? Are kids actually doing that now days?

2 weeks, 6 months, etc. True, was exaggerating for effect.

Honestly I dont know. I would tell them to stay off as long as possible unless there is millions on the table or something to make it worth the potential damage/risk.

The quality of information they are receiving is also sorely lacking online.

 

[glpfun]

The 2 weeks is not an exaggeration, the looksmaxxing culture on TikTok combined with all the incel ideology is making these kids reach for steroids very young and with no research. They genuinely believe no woman is ever going to love them unless they take a bunch of growth and test. Just go take a look in the QSC discord if you want to see how fucked up the situation is right now. There are 14-15 year olds in there with their actual pictures in their PFP asking stuff like how can I buy bitcoin without my mom finding out. There are TikTok’s openly talking about sources here, posting packaging, vials, etc

 

[bananafeet]

As an old guy who started abusing steroids late in life, I have no "back in the day" experience to share but I came into this knowing there was no turning back. Only forward. And since I want to live a long fruitful life, starting low and slow just made sense to me.

Turns out I respond really well to smaller amounts. My last cycle was 210 test and 400 DHB. I put on roughly 5-7 lbs of contractile tissue over 12 weeks (exact number pending post cut weight). So if I can gain at this rate and keep my blood markers looking good at the same time, why wouldn't I?

Everyone metabolizes drugs differently so I don't begrudge anyone that feels they need to run higher doses. It's the ones that dive straight into grams upon grams without even testing low dose first that I can only shake my head at.
Icarus flew too close to the sun and paid the ultimate price.

I don't want to start an argument over this but here we go.

How is 400mg of DHB a low dose? The equivalent dose of testosterone would be atleast 1 gram.

I mean it would probably be less toxic just to run 1500mg of testosterone.

I think Tren and DHB are roughly similar in potency (5x testosterone). But testosterone is relatively benign on our health (if E2 is controlled).

 

[adrenalytic]

I don't want to start an argument over this but here we go.

How is 400mg of DHB a low dose? The equivalent dose of testosterone would be atleast 1 gram.

I mean it would probably be less toxic just to run 1500mg of testosterone.

I think Tren and DHB are roughly similar in potency (5x testosterone). But testosterone is relatively benign on our health (if E2 is controlled).

Just because it is 2:1 more androgenic to test does not mean it builds muscle twice as much nor does it equal twice as much test. Those androgenicity ratios come from tests done on lab rats. It doesn't translate to real world in vivo.
In terms of toxicity, my blood work is perfect on it. I only stopped the cycle because I felt myself getting burned out and felt it was time for a break.

At the end of the day I used 610 mg of steroids. Why is DHB an exception when talking about total androgens?

 

[bananafeet]

Just because it is 2:1 more androgenic to test does not mean it builds muscle twice as much nor does it equal twice as much test. Those androgenicity ratios come from tests done on lab rats. It doesn't translate to real world in vivo.
In terms of toxicity, my blood work is perfect on it. I only stopped the cycle because I felt myself getting burned out and felt it was time for a break.

At the end of the day I used 610 mg of steroids. Why is DHB an exception when talking about total androgens?

By that same logic I could take 200mg of tren, 200mg of MENT, 200mg of DHB and inject 1mg of E2 and say I had a low dose cycle....

 

[adrenalytic]

By that same logic I could take 200mg of tren, 200mg of MENT, 200mg of DHB and inject 1mg of E2 and say I had a low dose cycle....

And by your logic I could use 300 test, 1000 mast, 300 deca, 300 primo, 500 EQ and some Dbol for giggles and call it a moderate blast coming in at just over a gram (1011mg) (adjusted for androgenicity ratios of course). See how slippery this slope gets?

 

[bananafeet]

And by your logic I could use 300 test, 1000 mast, 300 deca, 300 primo, 500 EQ and some Dbol for giggles and call it a moderate blast coming in at just over a gram (1011mg) (adjusted for androgenicity ratios of course). See how slippery this slope gets?

No I don't really care about the androgenicity. My point was really you'd probably be better on a higher dose of testosterone only.

Like 1500mg of testosterone instead of 500mg DHB.

 

[bananafeet]

It's not so much the total mg but the systemic impact of the combined medicines. Testosterone is very tolerable.

 

[adrenalytic]

No I don't really care about the androgenicity. My point was really you'd probably be better on a higher dose of testosterone only.

Like 1500mg of testosterone instead of 500mg DHB.

I love DHB and respond really well to it. I prefer dry compounds and not running AIs. If you don't respond well that's just more DHB for me. High test bloats the shit out of me.

 

[BP_6]

If I have learned anything over the years, it is that your favorite influencer, bb, gymrat you know, and YOU and I. Will almost always understate to at least some extent on how much they take to the overwhelming majority of people we talk to about it.

It is just the nature of the beast.

 

[marsupial]

If I have learned anything over the years, it is that your favorite influencer, bb, gymrat you know, and YOU and I. Will almost always understate to at least some extent on how much they take to the overwhelming majority of people we talk to about it.

It is just the nature of the beast.

In a way that’s the way it should be. Everyone ought to claim fake natty in real life if they can get away with it. No sense in admitting to everyone you use illegal drugs to get the body you want

 

[dinfaralt]

Everyone ought to claim fake natty in real life if they can get away with it

you just explained my life with 20 inch arms.

 

[adrenalytic]

In a way that’s the way it should be. Everyone ought to claim fake natty in real life if they can get away with it. No sense in admitting to everyone you use illegal drugs to get the body you want

Never admit that shit to people you barely know. The number of strangers that ask me what I'm "on" is staggering. The balls on some of these kids. My answer?

 

[Mfras]

I never considered doing steroids until the past few years in my mid 40s. TRT totally changed my life- everything is better, including diet, training motivation, and especially results.

I came up around a lot of drugs working in nightlife and when friends started using needles I stopped hanging out with them. Banging 200ish test C every week both normalized injecting oils and gave me immense respect for AAS compounds. Plus I’m a research nerd, especially when it comes to putting stuff in my body.

The amount of information available about compounds, effects, and health management is staggering compared to when I was in my 20s/30s.

Being older, done having kids, and on TRT is a combination of blast and cruise superpower, and also a knowledge that I will never truely be a bodybuilder and have a will to maximize what remains of my lifespan and be here for my family, both in the sense of longevity and not acting like a crazy person on cycle.

So for me 200 test is like drinking water or eating food. 300 with some stuff sprinkled in is a high cruise, and I’d definitely go to 7-800 for a blast and not think it was crazy at all- 300 test 200 mast 300 or more NPP is a nice little cycle for an intermediate abuser

I don’t know if there are lots of folks like me? But I also think the tiktok instagram juicy teenagers are scary. They are gonna fuck themselves up, and sooner or later one of them with powerful enough parents will die and fuck things up for everybody.

There’s definitely levels to this shit, and lots of folks coming from unique backgrounds with unique goals.

Also I was not a fan, more like just aware of him as a freakish youtube guy, but I don’t think you can underestimate the influence of people like Rich Piana who brought AAS abuse by non competitors out into the daylight- for good or bad.

 

[Ron OG Mouse]

Why use more than your genetics will utilize productively (assuming all else dialed in, a big IF). The logical approach would start low and titrate up. Then monitor positive benefits vs negative sides and do the tradeoff based on individual goals.

Makes much more sense than blanket recommendation to full send 500 mg/week of Test to someone who stepped in the gym for the first time 2 weeks ago.

Why are you taking AS if you stepped into the gym 2 weeks ago?