almost time for pct after first cycle!!! got a few questions

[Getbignotdietrying]

my cycle
1-11 test e 600mg
12-15 test P 600mg
6-15 hcg 500iu/wk
for pct I have clomid and nolva also leftover hcg about 1400 iu maybe less

my planned pct was to be clomid 50/25/25/25 and nolva 20/10/10/10 (still debating on wether or not to take nolva)
16-17 hcg 250iu

now my question to you guys. my last prop shot is this Saturday, I was planning on taking first dose of clomid on Tuesday approx 3 days after. my buddy was telling me to start clomid the next day (sunday) which makes no sense to me at all since ill still have prop in the system. what do you guys recommend?

 

[T_verde77]

Nice first cycle. 3 days would be good. I usually wait 4 with prop

 

[Hughesythelegend]

3/4 days after last pin should do the trick mate

 

[Hughesythelegend]

Having said that though I think you need to wait for the HCG to clear your system so maybe start pct the following week?

 

[Getbignotdietrying]

Really? Hmm. I was told elsewhere I could overlap hcg into pct. Not much though. Taking 50 clomid and 20 nolva (just in case). I won't take anymore hcg then. My balls are fine (I think)

 

[Hughesythelegend]

I would double check maybe by reading a few other posts on the topic mate but starting pct 3 days after last pin while still on HCG is a no go! As an example finish last test pin on say a Sunday carry on your HCG through that week till the following Sunday then wait one whole week till the following Sunday to start pct then you know that all test and HCG chemicals have left your body and then start your pct as that's when you will be completely shut down!?

 

[Getbignotdietrying]

I have been. It says to stop hcg before beginning pct everywhere. A while back I asked a reputable member on here (drjim) and he stated it could overlap. I took hcg in cycle and switched from enanthate to prop to be able to jump right into pct. Balls aren't small and I wasn't blasting 1 or 2k iu. Just 250iu. I won't take anymore hcg from here on. Just clomid and nolva. An extra week if needed. If I got it... I'll use it. Thanks for the feedback brother.

 

[Hughesythelegend]

No worries bro, I'm new to this too and am still recovering from a hard 14 Tren/test cycle and sis way too much research after the cycle when it should have been before!! So I know how you feel and where your coming from! Your smart guy and your using your brain to figure this stuff out like I did and that's a credit to you my man so well done and stay the course keep healthy, eat clean and lift daily! Just remember after your pct your cortisol levels will be high so try not to over train because you will loose muscle and gain belly fat, steroids block cortisol so you never feel negative and can push the world but don't keep the same work rate when you come off the gear try to have a few weeks off load so say 30/40 reps at a very very light weight but do keep training! As for HCG yes it can overlap but you would use serms to control the eatrogen caused by the HCG that's all. You still need all the chemicals to clear your body and your body to go back to a normal state before hitting the pct mate. And then just ride the pct wave mate stay strong it's shit!!! But stay strong and get your body back to normal and remember your time off is time on plus pct! So say 14 week cycle plus 1 week HCG plus 1 week to clear chemicals from body plus 4 weeks pct...equals 20 weeks clean!!! Good work bro all the best with it brother..

 

[Dr JIM]

my cycle
1-11 test e 600mg
12-15 test P 600mg
6-15 hcg 500iu/wk
for pct I have clomid and nolva also leftover hcg about 1400 iu maybe less

my planned pct was to be clomid 50/25/25/25 and nolva 20/10/10/10 (still debating on wether or not to take nolva) 16-17 hcg 250iu

now my question to you guys. my last prop shot is this Saturday, I was planning on taking first dose of clomid on Tuesday approx 3 days after. my buddy was telling me to start clomid the next day (sunday) which makes no sense to me at all since ill still have prop in the system. what do you guys recommend?

Your "buddy" is a .... and lacks the .... to know .... from .... or ..... never mind !

Like most folk you're starting PCT to SOON.

I mean there's at least a two week lag period bt AIH and gonadotropin recovery that is inevitable and can NOT be modified with SERMS!

This occurs IN SPITE OF TT levels below ones baseline.

Thus all things being equal the required interval for T-P and T-E is at least THREE and SIX weeks respectively.

I've no problem starting SERMS sooner BUT the error most folk make is using the duration of PCT, (defined on some arbitrary basis) rather than lab testing, as the standard for effective PCT.

Of course exceptions occur for several reasons, but the notion only 4-6 weeks of PCT is required for HTPA recovery is simply not the case IME, as in the majority the length of PCT will better approximate the cycle duration.


Consequently those that follow a fixed duration of PCT, more often than not, fail to restore baseline HTPA functioning and end up stacking one cycle upon another.

 

[Dr JIM]

1) Just remember after your pct your cortisol levels will be high

2) you would use serms to control the eatrogen caused by the HCG that's all.

3) So say 14 week cycle plus 1 week HCG plus 1 week to clear chemicals from body plus 4 weeks pct...equals 20 weeks clean!!! Good work bro all the best with it brother..

1) I'd like to see evidence supporting this comment

2) HCG must be avoided DURING SERM related PCT bc HCG results in a rise of BOTH TT and E-2

3) I generally agree BUT this interval can be reduced providing HTPA recovery is confirmed with lab testing.

 

[Dr JIM]

I'll add there is some evidence of a "cortisol effect" with respect to Tren in animal models

 

[Hughesythelegend]

Hey doc, I'm not going to insult your intelligence or any other pro on these issues I'm just giving an answer to the OP which I think is correct. AAS block cortisol? So when heavy training these levels remain blocked?

When AAS is stopped, cortisol levels are not blocked anymore? So if one continues to train as heavy as he/she did while on cycle there is nothing to stop or block cortisol levels therefore putting more strain on the body therefore increasing stress levels to the body and in turn allowing cortisol levels to peak? Especially as the body is already in a shut down state? And as cortisol can not be "fixed" by any meds OTC or UGL realistically speaking it's down to your body and lifestyle to adapt these changes to lower the said level? And as your body is in a state of repair its see able that cortisol can increase in level?

Again I'm just trying to help so please don't shut me down with a negative response if I am wrong then that's fine I'll hold my hands up at the end of the day (it gets dark lol) I'm still learning too..

 

[loganjj22]

Your "buddy" is a .... and lacks the .... to know .

So Dr Jim, for it using test e, run hcg for 4 weeks after last shot, take week 5 off everything, then start SERM at 6 weeks post last shot?

 

[Getbignotdietrying]

thank you all for your input. guess I didn't plan pct 100% aswell as I originally thought I had. hcg was run through out the cycle and I dropped enanthate for prop to get to pct quicker without having to wait a long period. tbh I don't mind pct all the way til I'm out of meds. I'm assuming I have enough for 5 or 6 weeks. that should be enough to compensate for my early start no? I do plan on getting bloods when I'm done with meds. thnks again for your input

 

[Getbignotdietrying]

update.. libido sucks and I'm never an emotional person but saw a video of a blind girl singing and it almost bought a tear to my eye (it sounds funny, but its strange ). I'm guessing that's the clomid or nolva. I went to 10mg nolva e/d because after reading a bit up on nolva it seems nolva interacts with almost every damn drug out there. clomid I will be taking 50/50/50/25/25 will be getting bloods done about a week after last clomid dose.

 

[Hughesythelegend]

Lol bro we all get emotional one way or another!! Go on YouTube and watch surprise homecomings especially the dog ones!!! I fucking shed a tear like a massive queer!!!

 

[Dr JIM]

I'm never an emotional person but saw a video of a blind girl singing and it almost bought a tear to my eye

nolva interacts with almost every damn drug out there.

Yup must be the elevated E-2 effect, men morphing into girlie men

DID you overlook the SERM "BLACK BOX WARNING"

IMMEDIATELY STOP THE SERM if you begin MENstruating
(literal interpretation to shed one's manhood)

 

[Dr JIM]

^^^^
Ok I'll admit it, the trauma section of the ED is slow right now

 

[Getbignotdietrying]

Lol bro we all get emotional one way or another!! Go on YouTube and watch surprise homecomings especially the dog ones!!! I fucking shed a tear like a massive queer!!!

LMAO! I feel a little better this a.m... that was very damn weird. If I start MENSTRUATING I'll call it a hemorrhoid...

Yup must be the elevated E-2 effect, men morphing into girlie men

DID you overlook the SERM "BLACK BOX WARNING"

IMMEDIATELY STOP THE SERM if you begin MENstruating
(literal interpretation to shed one's manhood)

 

[mudbutt22]

Fucking clomid. I was watching frozen with my 2 year old and almost teared up. What the fuck.