Am I doing too much volume

[GoldSpike]

I do push pull legs. This is per workout so I hit this twice a week. Every set ends in failure and is high intensity. I’m doing 8-15 reps depending on the exercise. My goal is to put on mass. I have had great progress and progressive overload with this every week but has slowed down. wanted to make sure I’m not spinning my wheels.

Chest: 20 sets
Shoulders: 20 sets
Tris: 15 sets

Back: 20 sets
Biceps: 15 sets; I do 5 drop sets on first exercise.

Legs: 20 sets

 

[TestTrenPrimo]

Are you growing?

If you’re growing, and haven’t found that less volume makes you grow more, I’d say you’re probably good.

Your numbers are inline with what im pushing when on blast.

 

[RaddishPork]

12-20 sets is plenty.

The quality of work is more important than the number of sets. Like TestTrenPrimo said, if you're growing then keep going.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Are these sets per week or sets per day?

If per day and TRULY to failure that's excessive. The goal is minimum effective so that you leave room to increase when plateaus occur.

Myself and most of the guys who train like me are hitting somewhere between 10-14 sets per day across 2/3 muscle groups 2x or so a week.

Many ways to balance the frequency vs volume equation but yours seems a bit loaded right now.

 

[TestTrenPrimo]

Are these sets per week or sets per day?

If per day and TRULY to failure that's excessive. The goal is minimum effective so that you leave room to increase when plateaus occur.

I just caught that he said this is per workout so 2x a week (double all the numbers he posted per week).

I would probably cut in half and turn those numbers into per week numbers and see how everything goes

 

[RaddishPork]

I just caught that he said this is per workout so 2x a week (double all the numbers he posted per week).

I would probably cut in half and turn those numbers into per week numbers and see how everything goes

Ohhh yeah if this is per workout you are doing too much bro.

3-5 exercises with 3-5 working sets each. No need for constant dropsets. A lot of big time trainers save drop sets for the last one or very specific exercises.

 

[Big_paul]

I do push pull legs. This is per workout so I hit this twice a week. Every set ends in failure and is high intensity. I’m doing 8-15 reps depending on the exercise. My goal is to put on mass. I have had great progress and progressive overload with this every week but has slowed down. wanted to make sure I’m not spinning my wheels.

Chest: 20 sets
Shoulders: 20 sets
Tris: 15 sets

Back: 20 sets
Biceps: 15 sets; I do 5 drop sets on first exercise.

Legs: 20 sets

Arnold would like it. Natural it could be overtraining but with the help of ped's doable.

I trained as hard or harder, balls to the walls 3 hr sessions with a couple of fucking maniacs, god rest their souls, and always felt good going into my next workout.

I ate like a pig and ran a few grams or more a week cycles.

 

[GoldSpike]

Are these sets per week or sets per day?

If per day and TRULY to failure that's excessive. The goal is minimum effective so that you leave room to increase when plateaus occur.

Myself and most of the guys who train like me are hitting somewhere between 10-14 sets per day across 2/3 muscle groups 2x or so a week.

Many ways to balance the frequency vs volume equation but yours seems a bit loaded right now.

Is this 10-14 per muscle group or between 2/3 groups this leaves me with like no room if I’m doing chest, shoulders, and triceps in one day.

 

[GoldSpike]

Arnold would like it. Natural it could be overtraining but with the help of ped's doable.

I trained as hard or harder, balls to the walls 3 hr sessions with a couple of fucking maniacs, god rest their souls, and always felt good going into my next workout.

I ate like a pig and ran a few grams or more a week cycles.

I’ve been eating a little over 5k calories a day while on 500mg test.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Is this 10-14 per muscle group or between 2/3 groups this leaves me with like no room if I’m doing chest, shoulders, and triceps in one day.

I assure you it does. Do 2 push days a week with 4-6 sets for chest, 3-6 for delts, and 2-6 for tris depending on your needs totaling 12-14 sets. Plenty. 2x a week is 8-12 for chest, 6-12 for delts, 4-12 for tris.

Edit: here I'll even post my current push days.

Push 1
1. Low incline smith x2
2. Hammer strength flat x2
3. Dual cable lateral delt raise x2
4. Short position cable tri ext x2
5. Dips x2
6. Stretch position cable ext x2

Push 2
1. Hammer strength incline x2
2. Seated cable chest press x2
3. Db laterals x3
4. Rear delt cable flye x2
5. Stretched position cable tri ext x2
6. JM press x2

 

[Big_paul]

I’ve been eating a little over 5k calories a day while on 500mg test.

Depending on how dialed in your training is 5000 may not be optimal.

It depends on training and your size.

I can say with certainty diet was the limiting factor for me. That was in the dark ages though. I know guys who swear by 8000 calories a day on cycle.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

I do PPLPPL and here's what I do.

If I train to failure (HIT style), I only do 2 working sets to total failure after warm ups, but since I'm cutting, I'm doing 4 sets per exercise NONE to failure but 1-3 RIR.

Push:
Chest gets two exercises: bb bench press and machine flies (8)
Shoulders gets three: db lateral raise, cable rear, and hammer press (12)
Triceps: cable press down, overhead dumbbell ext (8)
*28 total sets for the session

Pull:
Back gets three exercises: hi, mid, low pull or row. (12)
Traps: shrugs (4 sets total)
Biceps: bb curl, one arm preacher curl (8)
*24 total sets for the session

Legs:
Leg press; SLDL; One-legged lunges (12)
Adductors (4)
Calf press; seated calves (8)
*24 total sets for the session

the next round of PPL is same movements but different exercises, same sets, so you double the number to get my total sets for each muscle group per week:

chest: 16 sets
shoulders: 24 sets
triceps: 16 sets
back: 24 sets
biceps: 16 sets
traps: 8 sets
legs: 24 sets
adductors: 8 sets
calves: 16 sets
___________________
152 sets for the week

 

[crtx]

i find if your questioning something its mostly true either your too fatigued or weights not increasing therefor giving you the stall effect of gains.

i'm not a fan of high volume anymore it comes a time were people think they are at failure but they are just fatigued from high reps and volume generally not beating last sessions lifts.

and moving blood around at high reps i dont count as progressing just chasing the pump.

lower the volume to increase the intensity "more weight"

use a log book they dont lie or forget. once your beating it body composition follows.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

i find if your questioning something its mostly true either your too fatigued or weights not increasing therefor giving you the stall effect of gains.

i'm not a fan of high volume anymore it comes a time were people think they are at failure but they are just fatigued from high reps and volume generally not beating last sessions lifts.

and moving blood around at high reps i dont count as progressing just chasing the pump.

lower the volume to increase the intensity "more weight"

use a log book they dont lie or forget. once your beating it body composition follows.

I think it is smart to do both, using them in different mesocycles.

I did Mike Israetel's RPE volume method for my last bulk, where you start off lowest volume possible, like 2 sets per exercises, twice a week, and increase the volume each week by 1 extra set, until you reach week 6 of you max volume. To find your max volume, you have to experiment and figure it out, since everyone is different.

From week 1-6, you're also increasing how close you get to failure, starting at 3 reps away week 1, up to zero reps away at week six. The final weeks (5-6), you are going HAM and basically overreaching, then you deload for a week.

When I do my HIT method, I do as many warm ups as I need, and then I go do my two sets to failure. I don't go beyond, because the second set to technical failure acts to make up for the one I can't go beyond. I use FitNotes to keep track of my workouts and progress with reps. But I would still be doing PPLPPL, so my volume is super low, but frequency is high.

I found in the end, both achieve the same results for me, but the volume training is "easier" on my joints and does provide a better pump, whereas HIT I can see progress literally every 1-2 weeks.

Interestingly enough, when I got off my cycle and did HIT method for a six-week meso, I got my strongest while not being on. Sure, the drugs weren't completely clear of my system, but you get my point.

So really, I think it comes down to preference. How do you like to train? If you don't have time and want to push to the max, in order to know you went all in, then HIT is great. But if you know your body and how far you are from true failure, then I think volume with RIR training is "safer" in the long run, especially for us older guys; I'm 38 and I've never been injured, and I'm not trying to get injured anytime soon.

That's not to say HIT isn't safe, because it can be, but you can't be doing DORIAN style indefinitely; as he said himself, he regretted going beyond failure all year round even in prep, which lead to his injuries. I think cycling between styles probably gives everyone the best of both worlds.

 

[crtx]

I think it is smart to do both, using them in different mesocycles.

I did Mike Israetel's RPE volume method for my last bulk, where you start off lowest volume possible, like 2 sets per exercises, twice a week, and increase the volume each week by 1 extra set, until you reach week 6 of you max volume. To find your max volume, you have to experiment and figure it out, since everyone is different.

From week 1-6, you're also increasing how close you get to failure, starting at 3 reps away week 1, up to zero reps away at week six. The final weeks (5-6), you are going HAM and basically overreaching, then you deload for a week.

When I do my HIT method, I do as many warm ups as I need, and then I go do my two sets to failure. I don't go beyond, because the second set to technical failure acts to make up for the one I can't go beyond. I use FitNotes to keep track of my workouts and progress with reps. But I would still be doing PPLPPL, so my volume is super low, but frequency is high.

I found in the end, both achieve the same results for me, but the volume training is "easier" on my joints and does provide a better pump, whereas HIT I can see progress literally every 1-2 weeks.

Interestingly enough, when I got off my cycle and did HIT method for a six-week meso, I got my strongest while not being on. Sure, the drugs weren't completely clear of my system, but you get my point.

So really, I think it comes down to preference. How do you like to train? If you don't have time and want to push to the max, in order to know you went all in, then HIT is great. But if you know your body and how far you are from true failure, then I think volume with RIR training is "safer" in the long run, especially for us older guys; I'm 38 and I've never been injured, and I'm not trying to get injured anytime soon.

That's not to say HIT isn't safe, because it can be, but you can't be doing DORIAN style indefinitely; as he said himself, he regretted going beyond failure all year round even in prep, which lead to his injuries. I think cycling between styles probably gives everyone the best of both worlds.

totally agreed mate

 

[Titan18]

I assure you it does. Do 2 push days a week with 4-6 sets for chest, 3-6 for delts, and 2-6 for tris depending on your needs totaling 12-14 sets. Plenty. 2x a week is 8-12 for chest, 6-12 for delts, 4-12 for tris.

Edit: here I'll even post my current push days.

Push 1
1. Low incline smith x2
2. Hammer strength flat x2
3. Dual cable lateral delt raise x2
4. Short position cable tri ext x2
5. Dips x2
6. Stretch position cable ext x2

Push 2
1. Hammer strength incline x2
2. Seated cable chest press x2
3. Db laterals x3
4. Rear delt cable flye x2
5. Stretched position cable tri ext x2
6. JM press x2

I'm assuming this doesn't count warm up sets. Do you go to failure on every excercise, or do you do like a top set and then a back off set?

 

[Deleted member 123722]

I'm assuming this doesn't count warm up sets. Do you go to failure on every excercise, or do you do like a top set and then a back off set?

I'm pretty sure that's what he is doing.

 

[Rippidy Dippidy]

It’s all relative to the person.
Some people could grow off that, I for sure as hell don’t. I use to do 18-25 sets of chest one workout once a week and didn’t notice any size OR strength gains until I cut it down to 9-12 sets twice every 8 days. Same with delts. The only muscle groups in my body that grow off volume over 12 sets would be back and legs.
Everyone’s different, gotta trial and error this stuff out for yourself.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

I'm assuming this doesn't count warm up sets. Do you go to failure on every excercise, or do you do like a top set and then a back off set?

Warmups are not included.

Warmup as needed, but my scheme for warmups is as many a as i need to get warm with descending reps and ascending weight. As I go thru the workout the number of warmups needed decreases to a minimum of 1 to feel the movmeent/find the groove and go. Idea is to minimize effort bot applied to working sets where I'm doing 2 per movement to failure: 1 top and 1 backdown. Both top and backdown are to failure, backdown just uses 10-20% less weight.

The number of working sets changes depending on caloric intake, gear, goal, etc. but I don't stray 2 far from 2 per movement 5-6 movements per day.