Am I really out to the loop?!?!

[Type-IIx]

Doesnt matter

Fouad Abiad had a dr on his podcast and he said it doesnt matter

if anything subq absorbs much more slowly leading to more stable levels

I tried subq and didnt care for it. too many lumps and redness post injection

 

[Type-IIx]

The other question is why do we want "stable" levels anyway? Natural production is pulsatile, not stable.

I can understand splitting doses to avoid peaks that are too high and troughs too low, excessively supraphysiologic, to prevent e2 side effects or crashes in energy, but I suspect a little "roller coaster" effect feels, and is, more natural.

Endogenous T secretion is pulsatile? TIL.

Subject to diurnal variation ≠ pulsatile secretion

 

[Type-IIx]

Is reduced aromatization really the case?

Pharmacokinetic Profile of Subcutaneous Testosterone Enanthate Delivered via a Novel, Prefilled Single‐Use Autoinjector: A Phase II Study - PMC

Hypogonadism is one of the most common male endocrine problems. Although many treatments are currently available, unmet need exists for new testosterone (T) replacement therapies that are simple to administer and use, are safe, and mimic physiologic ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I remember looking at this study wondering why 100 mg subq test basically reached same avg e2 levels than 200 mg im test.

Maybe you can chime in, thanks!

Ya!rly

Review this thread, I responded to anyone who raised a material point.

FYI: I can be abusive towards patronizing men of all things, and I get aroused by pussy farts. Always have.

 

[Ghoul]

Endogenous T secretion is pulsatile? TIL.

Subject to diurnal variation ≠ pulsatile secretion

I knew that was a criminally inaccurate term right after the edit window closed, lol. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Rakusa]

Here's a couple. [1]. [2]. [3].

Not only are there multiple studies supporting that reduced aromatization and erythropoiesis occur given subcutaneously, we even know why. It's because "absorption for the s.c. route is slower than the i.m. because of a low surface area, whereas s.c. lag time is short due perhaps to the relatively high lymphatic floor or short-lymph vessel (but these aspects are understudied)." [4].

If anyone's critique of the first study had mentioned its failure to pre-register any measured outcome, one-way cross-over design (switched from but not back to s.c.), or short wash-out phase, I might give a shit... but if you barely speak English and you simply just don't like the results of a study, your characterizing it as low quality without elaboration or substantive argument gets you a D+ mark on this board...

[1] Choi EJ, Xu P, Barham D, El-Khatib FM, Yafi FA, Kavoussi PK. Comparison of Outcomes for Hypogonadal Men Treated with Intramuscular Testosterone Cypionate versus Subcutaneous Testosterone Enanthate. J Urol. 2022 Mar;207(3):677-683. doi: 10.1097/JU.0000000000002301
[2] Wilson, D. M., Kiang, T. K. L., & Ensom, M. H. H. (2018). Pharmacokinetics, safety, and patient acceptability of subcutaneous versus intramuscular testosterone injection for gender-affirming therapy: A pilot study. American Journal of Health-System Pharmacy, 75(6), 351–358. doi:10.2146/ajhp170160
[3] Nasimeh Yazdani, Stacy Matthews Branch. Daily subcutaneous testosterone for management of testosterone deficiency. Front. Biosci. (Elite Ed) 2018, 10(2), 334–343. Daily subcutaneous testosterone for management of testosterone deficiency
[4} Kalicharan, R. W., Schot, P., & Vromans, H. (2016). Fundamental understanding of drug absorption from a parenteral oil depot. European Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences, 83, 19–27. doi:10.1016/j.ejps.2015.12.011

Why hadn't "you looked into those who are trans however," too physiologically different from an enhanced bodybuilder to draw any conclusions?

Yeah you're right, I was to lazy and saw this board as an escape from thinking to hard. My problem with the study was that it is missing a lot of data I would have liked to look at, even when viewing the full study. Other than that thank you for the honest feedback!

 

[Ghoul]

In an earlier discussion a member mentioned that switching from 2x/week, .40ml TRT to daily .12ml subQ reduced his E2 sides significantly.

He failed to account for the .05ml dead space loss in his syringe, effectively reducing his weekly dose by 50mg, or 25%.

 

[Type-IIx]

Yeah you're right, I was to lazy and saw this board as an escape from thinking to hard. My problem with the study was that it is missing a lot of data I would have liked to look at, even when viewing the full study. Other than that thank you for the honest feedback!

Good man. IMO, you should get extra bonus points for this post...