Anyone in 20s/early30s and happy with TRT?

[Britman]

There's been an awful lot of negative things said about TRT of late on this board with regards to sexual function.

For those that are young like myself and have low T and therefore suffer from all the usual low T symptoms which normally includes weak erections and lower sex drive than if TT was higher end of range...

..has going on TRT help with this? or is it a case that TRT really does only help with mood and energy and not much else?

since I notice it is mostly older guys who are happy on TRT re sexual function or at least guys in their 40s

If I were to go on TRT I would also like to be able to grow proper beard but many young guys on TRT also state it hasn't helped them with growing beard...maybe just have to be on it a good while to see certain effects I don't know

 

[Sargovar]

There's been an awful lot of negative things said about TRT of late on this board with regards to sexual function.

For those that are young like myself and have low T and therefore suffer from all the usual low T symptoms which normally includes weak erections and lower sex drive than if TT was higher end of range...

..has going on TRT help with this? or is it a case that TRT really does only help with mood and energy and not much else?

since I notice it is mostly older guys who are happy on TRT re sexual function or at least guys in their 40s

If I were to go on TRT I would also like to be able to grow proper beard but many young guys on TRT also state it hasn't helped them with growing beard...maybe just have to be on it a good while to see certain effects I don't know

A friend (or should I say acquaintance) of mine lost pretty much all the function he had in his nuts as a result of direct trauma. The standard guidelines for TRT here in Finland are a sick joke, but he says he has never felt as good in his life (sexually or otherwise) now that he's on androgel, not even when he had his own nuts working at full capacity.
He's 26 years old and taking nothing but androgel.. I think he's been on it for a year or so. I asked him what his numbers were and he said he didn't really remember or care as long as he felt excellent. He's one of those guys who blindly trusts his doc and doesn't feel the need to educate himself on his therapy. Then again, I suppose he doesn't need to if it's working as well as it seems to be, even in all of its simplicity.

Regarding the beard growth thing; back when I dabbled in prohormones (only did a couple of very short cycles), I had bought this transdermal 1-test/4-AD combo from some online supplier. I only applied it once and had instant regrets because it was June and the weather was hot & humid.. the stuff stuck to my skin like glue. So I decided the discomfort outweighed its anabolic benefits and sold the rest of the bottles to a friend of mine. He has had various hormonal issues for a long time, including low LH, low normal T and low thyroid function. He also has a very sparse beard growth, but after he had used the stuff for a while, he was sporting a 5 o'clock shadow for the first time in his life; it's like his beard had 'filled in' so that it coverered his cheeks and jawline fully, not just the upper lip and lower jaw.
It should be clarified that this was NOT testosterone at all, but a combination of two potent anabolic steroids (misleadingly labled as 'prohormones') which in many ways mimic the effects of testosterone.
Just throwing that out there as an example of someone who experienced and obvious and dramatic increase in his beard growth as a result of heightened androgenic activity.

 

[Britman]

Sargovar

Good to hear about positive experience for young guy on TRT rather than all the other threads I've read of late which would put someone like myself seeking out possibility of going on TRT.

Probably a lot of cases of people not being happy with TRT are due a poor treatment protocol by their not so knowledgable doctors.

I take it your not on TRT yourself then or have tried it in the past? Do you know what your TT and e2 levels are? I wouldn't dabble with prohormones myself or any other blackmarket drug. Just not worth the risk in my opinion.

 

[Sargovar]

Sargovar

Good to hear about positive experience for young guy on TRT rather than all the other threads I've read of late which would put someone like myself seeking out possibility of going on TRT.

Probably a lot of cases of people not being happy with TRT are due a poor treatment protocol by their not so knowledgable doctors.

I take it your not on TRT yourself then or have tried it in the past? Do you know what your TT and e2 levels are? I wouldn't dabble with prohormones myself or any other blackmarket drug. Just not worth the risk in my opinion.

Yep, it's always encouraging to read success stories once in a while. While I do believe young guys, on average, may find that TRT isn't necessarily the holy grail of libido and sexual prowess that they hoped it would be, I don't think it's a fair assessment that TRT, when properly administered, will wipe out sexual function in all young males. Indeed, as you pointed out, the biggest hurdle may be getting things tuned up just right so the therapy supports all aspects of one's health, including sexual performance.
It's particularily difficult to get the right kind of treatment for those who live outside of the US. It's pretty bad here in Europe (as you know), unless you happen to live right next door to someone like Thierry Hertoghe (one of the rare few proficient hormone doctors here).

Nope, I'm not on TRT and I never have been, but I suffer from so many symptoms associated with hypogonadism that I sometimes wonder if there isn't something funky going on with my testosterone receptors; that maybe my body isn't responding properly to this level of T. My T levels have been tested a handful of times, and they've come back at 420 - 550 ng/dl (approximately), or 14.4 - 19 nmol. LH has always been on the high side (one reading was above range, as a matter of fact), but I'm told that serum LH values mean little because the hormone is so pulsatile in nature. E2 was only tested once; though I'm not sure how accurate the test was. When converted to American units, it would have been 27. Sounds about right, but again it wasn't an ultrasensitive test as far as I'm aware, so I don't know if I can trust the results. I do have many estrogenic symptoms as well.

Yep, I agree, the prohormones were a bad call and I'll certainly never touch them (or any kind of steroids) again, but I only did a couple of brief cycles. At least they didn't knock out my LH signaling permanently; my pituitary seems to have recovered fully from those cycles (which I did many years ago), judging by the high LH numbers.

What are your testosterone numbers like, and what symptoms do you suffer from?

 

[Britman]

Yep absolutely shocking knowledge base here amongst medical practioners with respect to treating low testosterone and its symptoms. I've often thought about emailing professional endocrinologists associations to voice my disgust at the lack of relevant treatment protocols and I def will do this at least to make myself feel better for 'doing my bit' to improve the situation for low T sufferers.

In particular there should be a protocol which addresses issues of fertility by way of using hCG whilst on TRT (with accurate advice re dosages for longer term use not just when trying for a baby), expected levels of T with gels, injectables etc and when to increase dosage and the importance of keeping estradiol monitored and in check as well as testosterone. The AACE in US last published guidelines in 2002 as I'm sure you are aware and as such are now outdated. Europe doesn't even have a standard reference guide which is pathetic.

I've only had one test done middle of last year and TT was 300ng/dL (10.4nmol/l, range 10.4-38), e2 was 5pg/ml and LH and FSH both 4.7 U/l - SHBG and prolactin were both low. Now I've read up on the condition I understand that low T and e2 is the cause of my symptoms - low energy/tiredness quite often, very thin build and difficulty putting on muscle along with poor erections or in sustaining erections for as long as I could when 18/19 - Cialis solves this but I know low T is the real root cause in all of this.

I expect to be in a higher paid job start of next year when I've completed my professional chartered accountant exams so should be better placed to go to doctor then although I realise it will still be difficult to be taken seriously with the lack of awareness over this condition.

 

[marsaday]

britman

are you on T therapy. i am in the Uk and saw the endo today. he said i do have a sperm production problem, but test. is ok. so i am not going to be given treatment (although he is going to ask colleagues next week about me as i am a difficult case).

i think i have had low T from age 21 when i became ill. life has been the same ever since and it has always been put down to depression. countless times i said i was not depressed just knackered. anyway last yr i found out i had low sperm level (18m) as we are trying for a baby and realised my thyroid was not working effectivley and T was low. i went down the thyroid route and had success and stopped anti D's.

anyway in sep i stopped the thyroid and became ill again in nov. the endo today has concluded he doesn't know what is wrong with me basically. and thats it. i was desperate today. i feel so ill.

i am not sure whether i go back on the thyroid or do T replacement. these are my results for T

april 2008 10.9
jan 2009 7
feb 2009 15 !!

i thought i might try clomid as that has been shown to increase sperm production and testosterone.

Do you know of any decent private docs in the uk (i am in yorkshire) who could help.

 

[Bridger]

There's been an awful lot of negative things said about TRT of late on this board with regards to sexual function.

For those that are young like myself and have low T and therefore suffer from all the usual low T symptoms which normally includes weak erections and lower sex drive than if TT was higher end of range...

..has going on TRT help with this? or is it a case that TRT really does only help with mood and energy and not much else?

since I notice it is mostly older guys who are happy on TRT re sexual function or at least guys in their 40s

If I were to go on TRT I would also like to be able to grow proper beard but many young guys on TRT also state it hasn't helped them with growing beard...maybe just have to be on it a good while to see certain effects I don't know

Im 25 been on TRT since 23.

I guess have been lucky in that i've never had libido/ED issues before treatment and during. I attribute that to my bipolar disorder, increased libido can be an effect of BD. My complaints were low energy/endurance, lack of strength/ ability to build muscle, depression, irritability, low motivation, no agression/drive, confidence, etc. TRT has helped with all of those and hasn't really affected libido much. Just a slight increase. Maybe the positive mood changes have to do with the increased libido?

The negative has been acne and some hairloss. Im treating the acne with accutane now, which sucks. But is working nicely. And the hairloss isn't severe but im trying rogaine to see if that has a positive effect. My hair has always been something i get lots of compliments for and im not ready to let it go just yet. And I have to shave everyday, could do it twice daily. I could get by with EOD before. Shaving and beards are overrated, be glad you don't have to worry about it.
It does get to be a pain in the ass sometimes doing the labwork, timing the shots(T and HCG), acquiring HCG, getting the arimidex dosing right, research, etc. But then again I have truly enjoyed learning so much about the endocrine system and how the body is so connected to the mind as well. Very eyeopening stuff. And my endo is really hot too.

All in all, I wouldn't consider stopping my TRT. I feel so much better that i did before i started treatment and also the timeframe before i became hypo gonadal.

 

[brettj86]

Im 25 been on TRT since 23.

I guess have been lucky in that i've never had libido/ED issues before treatment and during. I attribute that to my bipolar disorder, increased libido can be an effect of BD. My complaints were low energy/endurance, lack of strength/ ability to build muscle, depression, irritability, low motivation, no agression/drive, confidence, etc. TRT has helped with all of those and hasn't really affected libido much. Just a slight increase. Maybe the positive mood changes have to do with the increased libido?

The negative has been acne and some hairloss. Im treating the acne with accutane now, which sucks. But is working nicely. And the hairloss isn't severe but im trying rogaine to see if that has a positive effect. My hair has always been something i get lots of compliments for and im not ready to let it go just yet. And I have to shave everyday, could do it twice daily. I could get by with EOD before. Shaving and beards are overrated, be glad you don't have to worry about it.
It does get to be a pain in the ass sometimes doing the labwork, timing the shots(T and HCG), acquiring HCG, getting the arimidex dosing right, research, etc. But then again I have truly enjoyed learning so much about the endocrine system and how the body is so connected to the mind as well. Very eyeopening stuff. And my endo is really hot too.

All in all, I wouldn't consider stopping my TRT. I feel so much better that i did before i started treatment and also the timeframe before i became hypo gonadal.

I'm 22 and on trt for 2 years. I feel really great all around except for ED! I have a strong sex drive/libido but have troulbe getting/maintaining erections. I'm on test cyp and a-dex. Levels are where they should be. I'm in the process of getting a new doctor so I can add hcg and figure out this ED problem.

Besides that I'm very glad to be on trt. I make great gains in the gym. I have some acne but not too bad. I just use benzoyl peroxide on pretty much my entire upper body! I also have a slight receding hairline but it started before I started trt plus my dad is bald.

My facial hair is a little thicker but I still have bald patches which annoy me but I don't know what to do about it. Is there any possible way to get facial hair to come in where it's not growing?

Bridger, if you don't mind me asking, are you by chance located in Arizona? I'm trying to find an endo that actually knows about mens hormones.

 

[Britman]

marsaday

No I'm not on TRT at the moment - all I've done so far is research loads on hypogonadism/TRT etc and get my basic hormone profile after seeing my GP about testicles being smaller than they should be, lethargy, lack of facial hair (only top lip, sides and under chin but pretty sparse), lack of muscle gain when working out and weak erections (and more so if trying to stay hard for 30mins or so when having sex so much so it cost me a long-term and damn good relationship).

I only mentioned to GP about weak erections and not being as frequent as they used to be and general tiredness. I mentioned this when I was down seeing about a bout of irritable bowel syndrome (at least that was what it was put down to and not had it since). Of course he claimed I was being a hypochondriac and hinting towards me being a mad man maybe needing anti-depressants or something. He didn't bother doing any tests apart from reluctantly doing the blood test I asked for which as I mentioned in previous post TT was 300ng/dL and I felt better at that time being end of summer.

I much like you will no doubt be seen as a borderline case here in the UK and it will depend on your endo/doctor and how much you put forward your symptoms to be treated - even if only for a trial period at least you could compare how you felt either way with or w/o TRT. My plan is to continue reading up and documenting my reading with references/medical journals I can take to my GP/endo as I'm 100% sure I'll need to fight my corner to be taken seriously although my presenting symptoms including small testicles and bloodwork should be enough on its own but too many doc's don't want to know if it's a medical area they don't know much about.

In term's of good endo's in UK on NHS - short answer is I don't know but some guy on another board said if I contacted Professor Ashley Grossman at Guy's in London he would maybe be able to refer me to someone. Best private endo in UK I know of is Dr. Malcolm Carruthers in Harley Street, London - no doubt very expensive though but if you google you will see how much he has written on this subject. There is also Thomas Trinick in Belfast (NHS) tom.trinick@ucht.n-i.nhs.uk - again you could ask for point of contact in your area. Dr Wales, Consultant Paediatric Endocrinologist (NHS in Sheffield) is another name that's propped up from someone on another board. If you do try these people PM me and let me know how you get on as I'll be doing the same at some point.

I don't think treating your thyriod is going to resolve all your symptoms re low T but it might help somewhat. However, I'm no expert by anymeans. Clomid has bad side's - I would only say take this short-term if at all judging by what others have had to say about it. hCG would be better option if your testicles are capable of producing T even if only to some degree and could be taken alongside TRT like most people do when on TRT to retain fertility (even if low sperm count). Obviously Clomid could work for fertility short-term. Androxal is single isomer of Clomid and should hopefully prove to be more useful in field of TRT - we shall see when its released end 2010.

 

[Britman]

Bridger & brettj86

It's good to hear input and experiences from young guys on TRT as so its more of a no brainer for older guys with no contraindications to go on TRT but being younger its not so simple - life long therapy, fertility issues, possible sides/risks longer-term etc Therefore other peoples experiences & thoughts are invaluable when deciding on what to do. Of course no individuals experiences are exactly the same anyway.

You both have same symptoms as me and seem to have the same problems having gone on TRT - some acne, hairloss and slight ED with brettj86.

I take it both of you have been on shots from day one and not gels? What are you peaks and troughs of TT along with e2 levels?

I think for those with low T from young age are most likely to be primary i.e. small testicles due to not working as well as they should for whatever reason. is that the case with you guys?

i'm not sure I would try hairloss treatments as most report bad sides and its know to lower t also.

 

[Britman]

By the way for you guys on TRT with slight ED surely Cialis of Viagra helps you out here?

I have low T - don't take TRT - and slight ED most of the time but Cialis works brilliant for me

 

[brettj86]

Bridger & brettj86

It's good to hear input and experiences from young guys on TRT as so its more of a no brainer for older guys with no contraindications to go on TRT but being younger its not so simple - life long therapy, fertility issues, possible sides/risks longer-term etc Therefore other peoples experiences & thoughts are invaluable when deciding on what to do. Of course no individuals experiences are exactly the same anyway.

You both have same symptoms as me and seem to have the same problems having gone on TRT - some acne, hairloss and slight ED with brettj86.

I take it both of you have been on shots from day one and not gels? What are you peaks and troughs of TT along with e2 levels?

I think for those with low T from young age are most likely to be primary i.e. small testicles due to not working as well as they should for whatever reason. is that the case with you guys?

i'm not sure I would try hairloss treatments as most report bad sides and its know to lower t also.

I've been on shots since day 1. I was on 100mg test cyp per week and my e2 was at 61. I split my dosages into 50mg 2x per week and added adex .5mg 2x/week. My e2 dropped to 24 but my total test was 600. I had some minor peaks and valleys with 1x/week but now that I shoot every 3.5 days I feel good everyday.

I switched to 75mg 2x/week about 1 month ago and just had the blood tests done. I'm waiting the results and I will post them. I don't notice much difference but they say it takes time to really notice the effects.

I'm on trt because I had a varicosle done and it messed my nuts up, they did shrink a little bit. So yes I am primary.

I have not tried viagra/cialis yet but I plan on it. If my blood test come out good which I think they will I will add hcg to the mix and see if that helps any. Then finally I will through in some viagra/cialis and hope for the best. It takes me about 5minutes to achieve a full erection. This is with a lot of stimulation and good porn. I don't know if this even qualifies as slight ED. It's really tough especially at my age. I'm still in search of a good doctor to help me out with this problem. If you have any other advice on what to do I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[Britman]

brettj86

I think adding hCG would be a good idea to increase size of your nuts and more importantly restore fertility (even if you will have low sperm count).

If you try anything then go for Cialis I would say - last 3 days not few hours so much more bang for the buck if you pardon the pun. You'll get more frequent erections with Cialis becuase of increased blood flow.

Also important is diet and exercise for overall health. Many people just seem to think T in form of gel or injection will turn them into superheroes but really hard work in the gym and good diet alongside having good overall health and hormones balanced at middle/high end of the range is the only option to increase chances of function/wellbeing

Also research as much as you can and document stuff that you can challenge your doc on. If you think endo is no good politely move on and find someone else who knows what they are on about - your health is the thing at stake at the end of the day.