Anyone run MENT and tren together?

[NotHuman]

Anyone use both together and how did it go? Considering maybe 10mg ment and 20mg of tren daily while continuing my TRT dose of test.

 

[BigTomJ]

Why?

 

[Type-IIx]

Will you use an AI?

Any any dose this would call for an AI and a SERM, and given the mess of interactions between progestins, potent estrogens, and outright redundancy of MENT here, I'd never use this combination.

 

[NotHuman]

Will you use an AI?

Any any dose this would call for an AI and a SERM, and given the mess of interactions between progestins, potent estrogens, and outright redundancy of MENT here, I'd never use this combination.

I’ve used up to 20mg of MENT without an AI or SERM. BP increase was big. Had to use 20mg Nebivolol and 80mg Telmisartan to keep it under 120/80

 

[NotHuman]

Why?

To grow my muscles?

 

[BigTomJ]

To grow my muscles?

I mean why ment and tren specifically.

It's a Russian roulette combination.
Not to mention you'd almost certainly grow more off of just an increased test dose without having to deal with the wild unpredictability of ment and the side effects and toxicity of tren.

 

[Type-IIx]

I’ve used up to 20mg of MENT without an AI or SERM. BP increase was big. Had to use 20mg Nebivolol and 80mg Telmisartan to keep it under 120/80

So why bother with MENT?

Tren & Test already combine synergistically, and the further addition of MENT offers only reduced tolerability (gestagenic & estrogenic effects; increased systolic BP). MENT is less potent than Tren.

Already, you need 4 additional drugs minimum by adding any dose of MENT. You need MENT, an AI, a SERM, and an antihypertensive (e.g., ACE inhibitor, ARB).

 

[NotHuman]

So why bother with MENT?

Tren & Test already combine synergistically, and the further addition of MENT offers only reduced tolerability (gestagenic & estrogenic effects; increased systolic BP). MENT is less potent than Tren.

Already, you need 4 additional drugs minimum by adding any dose of MENT. You need MENT, an AI, a SERM, and an antihypertensive (e.g., ACE inhibitor, ARB).

MENT is the only drug I have used in recent years whenever I blast and it works extremely well. I just usually use a very low dose and this time around, I want to kick it up a bit, but don’t want to use enough where I start to develop estrogen sides.

I used to use tren in my earlier days and high doses of it but it’s been a while, so I was thinking I can use a lower dose. I just worry a bit about insomnia.

I am hesitant to use a high dose of test because I don’t want too much water retention and worry about it possibly spiking hematocrit too much.

Nebivolol (40mg) and Telmisartan (5mg) I am on permanently and have been for years. I even have a legitimate prescription for them.

I really don’t want to use an AI. I have Raloxifene if I need it but don’t expect to use it.

 

[NotHuman]

My other option is just using testosterone acetate instead (I hate long esters), which I’ve never used. I took prop a long time ago though. Don’t really want to become too bloated.

 

[BigTomJ]

My other option is just using testosterone acetate instead (I hate long esters), which I’ve never used. I took prop a long time ago though. Don’t really want to become too bloated.

Test is test is test. The ester weight isn't going to effect water retention if serem levels are maintained at a stable concentration and other biomarkers are managed properly.

Why would you use test ace, a more expensive preparation, over prop if you've used prop in the past and it's literally the cheapest thing you can inject?

 

[NotHuman]

Test is test is test. The ester weight isn't going to effect water retention if serem levels are maintained at a stable concentration and other biomarkers are managed properly.

Why would you use test ace, a more expensive preparation, over prop if you've used prop in the past and it's literally the cheapest thing you can inject?

Well acetate is even faster acting than prop. If I’m going to inject daily anyway, makes sense to use the faster ester.

Not a big difference either way though. I already got the test acetate anyway. I honestly don’t remember the price difference of what i paid compared to prop.

You don’t think ester weight affects water retention? there seems to be conflicting opinions there.

 

[BigTomJ]

You don’t think ester weight affects water retention? there seems to be conflicting opinions there.

That active hormone is exactly the same once the ester is cleaved.

For different esters to impact water retention one of two things must be true;

1) the ester itself is causing the interaction (I've never seen any piece of literature suggesting this as a possibility, maybe it exists)

2) it's a variance in serum stability between the esters. If levels are equally stable (and long/medium esters pinned more frequently produce the most stable concentrations when saturation occurs) then there can be no difference.


The "prop holds less water" or any variance of it is bro science nonsense that, to my knowledge, has no real logical backing.
Unless you are leveraging clearance times (such as competition prep) there really is no benefit of fast esters.

 

[NotHuman]

That active hormone is exactly the same once the ester is cleaved.

For different esters to impact water retention one of two things must be true;

1) the ester itself is causing the interaction (I've never seen any piece of literature suggesting this as a possibility, maybe it exists)

2) it's a variance in serum stability between the esters. If levels are equally stable (and long/medium esters pinned more frequently produce the most stable concentrations when saturation occurs) then there can be no difference.


The "prop holds less water" or any variance of it is bro science nonsense that, to my knowledge, has no real logical backing.
Unless you are leveraging clearance times (such as competition prep) there really is no benefit of fast esters.

I see what you’re saying and I buy it.

I will only push back on your last sentence though. The advantage of shorter esters is faster results and quick in and out of your system.

 

[BigTomJ]

I see what you’re saying and I buy it.

I will only push back on your last sentence though. The advantage of shorter esters is faster results and quick in and out of your system.

Yeah that's completely fair.

Some people like the fast in, fast out, of short esters. Which is a completely valid personal preference. I'd consider this under "leveraging clearance times"

 

[Type-IIx]

My other option is just using testosterone acetate instead (I hate long esters), which I’ve never used. I took prop a long time ago though. Don’t really want to become too bloated.

Why is that your other option?

Your stated constraints make no sense.

Option A) 3 AAS, 2 of which are highly potent and almost mythical in their side effect profiles, necessitating 7 drugs minimum to keep BP, estrogens, prolactin, etc in check.

Option B) totally different constraints, now I can only use testosterone acetate.

???

 

[Type-IIx]

Anyway, for 85% of the readership here, test alone is a very sensible option.

 

[Type-IIx]

Test is test is test. The ester weight isn't going to effect water retention if serem levels are maintained at a stable concentration and other biomarkers are managed properly.

Why would you use test ace, a more expensive preparation, over prop if you've used prop in the past and it's literally the cheapest thing you can inject?

I basically agree, though I thought you might find interesting if new to you, that testosterone suspension actually does reduce fluid retention significantly and was a pretty ubiquitous prep and even peak week drug for those that ran anabolics that far up to the show before AIs & SERMs.

 

[BigTomJ]

I basically agree, though I thought you might find interesting if new to you, that testosterone suspension actually does reduce fluid retention significantly and was a pretty ubiquitous prep and even peak week drug for those that ran anabolics that far up to the show before AIs & SERMs.

That doesn't surprise me at all, I'd imagine because it's peak, and subsequent clearance times as so short it's not enough time for any meaningful aromatization or other retention mechanisms to take place?

 

[NotHuman]

Why is that your other option?

Your stated constraints make no sense.

Option A) 3 AAS, 2 of which are highly potent and almost mythical in their side effect profiles, necessitating 7 drugs minimum to keep BP, estrogens, prolactin, etc in check.

Option B) totally different constraints, now I can only use testosterone acetate.

???

First off, you don't have to talk to me like I'm some newbie because those are the vibes I am getting. Not everyone asking for cycle advice is a beginner. I have used all three steroids many times in the past, although I haven't used tren in years. It doesn't seem like you recognize my username from pro muscle, where I am much more active.

I have a lot of experience but I've been very minimalist lately because I am health conscious and into anti aging/biohacking these days. That being said, I still can't totally give up bodybuilding. MENT is all I have used in recent years but no more than 15-20mg daily (I usually only use 5-10mg but that doesn't seem to be enough given I'm not a small guy).

I made this thread to hear from anyone who has used both tren and ment together. So far, No one has due to the idea that combining them seems to be too much. I am only talking about combining low doses of the two, however.

I am a big MENT lover so I am trying to look for opinions about whether if I can get away with continuing my small dosage of it and combine it with a low dosage of tren to hopefully get great results and less side effects.

Yes, the alternative is high testosterone solo (I wouldn't go over 700mg) but I am reluctant because I don't want too much water retention and semi cautious of a potential hematocrit increase.

Anyways, if anyone has combined the two, I'd appreciate your input.

 

[Type-IIx]

First off, you don't have to talk to me like I'm some newbie because those are the vibes I am getting. Not everyone asking for cycle advice is a beginner. I have used all three steroids many times in the past, although I haven't used tren in years. It doesn't seem like you recognize my username from pro muscle, where I am much more active.

I have a lot of experience but I've been very minimalist lately because I am health conscious and into anti aging/biohacking these days. That being said, I still can't totally give up bodybuilding. MENT is all I have used in recent years but no more than 15-20mg daily (I usually only use 5-10mg but that doesn't seem to be enough given I'm not a small guy).

I made this thread to hear from anyone who has used both tren and ment together. So far, No one has due to the idea that combining them seems to be too much. I am only talking about combining low doses of the two, however.

I am a big MENT lover so I am trying to look for opinions about whether if I can get away with continuing my small dosage of it and combine it with a low dosage of tren to hopefully get great results and less side effects.

Yes, the alternative is high testosterone solo (I wouldn't go over 700mg) but I am reluctant because I don't want too much water retention and semi cautious of a potential hematocrit increase.

Anyways, if anyone has combined the two, I'd appreciate your input.

I didn't judge your experience, just your reasoning. Often actually the two are oppositely related, because experience engenders confidence despite success often occurring not as a result of our decisions. I think that you've defended yourself well on the basis of being a fan of MENT. Personally, I prefer to be able to at least articulate the reasons on which I base my decisions rather than make some conclusory statement that boils down to "I just like it," but I realize that my own scrupulous critical thinking is not shared by everyone, or even many.

If I had 3 AAS to choose from like you must, then I'd combine Tren & Test for recomp or just use Test solo for bulking. Since you added a short ester constraint, just use acetate, every other day is fine.